Olympics: Squads without NHLers

[worstfaceoffmanever]

Domenichelli is technically Swiss.

 

[Jordan]

Personally, I think that if they're not going to have the NHLers at the Olympics, they should just not have the U-20 tournament at Christmas/New Years and instead have U-20's in the Olympics.

It would be far better hockey than minor leaguers playing.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Personally, I think that if they're not going to have the NHLers at the Olympics, they should just not have the U-20 tournament at Christmas/New Years and instead have U-20's in the Olympics.

It would be far better hockey than minor leaguers playing.

The belief that juniors is better hockey than top players of European leagues is an absolute delusion that mayn North Americans suffer from. There are more than just 4 teams in the Olympics, and IMO teams with little numbers of players can put up way superior teams at the senior level than the junior. Latvia for example can keep up a score close at the senior level while they´re gonna get killed by 15 goals in juniors, yeah sure that´s just so more interesting, right?

 

[worstfaceoffmanever]

Would that include players under NHL contracts in the AHL also? I would assume that if NHL clubs back out of the Games, they won't release players under contract in the minors that they might need on a moment's notice.

Not that it matters, Russia's offensive depth would overwhelm most teams. Sweden and Finland would be okay, but Canada wouldn't be awful. I don't even want to think about the States...

 

[jekoh]

I guess it depends. Pre-NHL inclusion, professionals were not allowed, correct?

Not true, pros have been allowed since the early 80s, while NHLers started to compete only in 1998.

So if the NHL backs out after these next Games do they go back to amateur-only or would they still allow professionals?

Of course they would allow professionals, just like they did in 92 and 94.

If it was the Swiss league not releasing its players (instead of the NHL), do you think NHLers and KHLers should be disallowed as a result?

 

[mattihp]

Domenichelli

Ineligable. Plays for Switzerland.

 

[mattihp]

Personally, I think that if they're not going to have the NHLers at the Olympics, they should just not have the U-20 tournament at Christmas/New Years and instead have U-20's in the Olympics.

It would be far better hockey than minor leaguers playing.

How would it be far better hockey when they are worse hockey players?

 

[joe89]

The belief that juniors is better hockey than top players of European leagues is an absolute delusion that mayn North Americans suffer from. There are more than just 4 teams in the Olympics, and IMO teams with little numbers of players can put up way superior teams at the senior level than the junior. Latvia for example can keep up a score close at the senior level while they´re gonna get killed by 15 goals in juniors, yeah sure that´s just so more interesting, right?

Totally agree. The Canadian team in Spengler for example would kill the junior Canada team. After all we are talking juniors vs men here, let's not forget that. They might play a fun hockey, but the competition level throughout a senior tournament owns a few good junior matchups.

 

[Muscle Bob]

Circumstances being what they are, we might not see NHLers make the trip to Sochi in four years time. So, to apply the problems of the future to today, what would the current Olympic squads look like if NHLers (Ovechkin and company included) were not allowed to participate? Russia is actually one of the easier ones to do:

?????????-?????????-Morozov
????????-?????????-Zherdev
Kozlov-????????-Radulov
Yashin-Fedorov-????????
x: Perezhogin

????????-???????
Zubov-???????
????????-Kalinin
x: Tverdovsky

?????????
????????
????????

Who the heck are these anonymous players? I can't even read their surnames.

 

[crabcz]

amateurism is overrated.

 

[ChrisKreider20]

Ovechkin would be on that team whether the NHL likes it or not.

 

[Hyperkookeez*]

Canada would probably have to send their Spengler Cup team

 

[Caeldan]

I'd say Canada would probably actually send a mix of Spengler Cup and U-20 national teams... with some CHL overagers thrown in.

There might also be some talent hiding in the CIS system, but mostly the above is where you'd find your draw from. Some of the kids on the U-20 team are NHL ready every year - so they'd hold their own in the Olympics. Same with the CHL overagers and of course the Spengler Cup is the Canadian ex-pats playing in the various Euro pro leagues.

I think there's also some Canadians playing in the KHL currently as well, and you'd probably be able to grab an aging veteran or two for 'leadership' who didn't get a contract that season or who just 'retired'.

 

[mexicohockey]

Personally, I think that if they're not going to have the NHLers at the Olympics, they should just not have the U-20 tournament at Christmas/New Years and instead have U-20's in the Olympics.

It would be far better hockey than minor leaguers playing.

And why exactly do you believe that 10 nations should not be allowed to send their best players only because two nations opt for not playing their best possible roster? The IIHF/IOC will invite the national federations/NOCs to play whoever they like.

 

[ult]

Who the heck are these anonymous players? I can't even read their surnames.

good one.

 

[Kamzik]

The IOC has thrown baseball out of the Olympics after their refusal to send the best. I believe they would throw out hockey too before they would move to some of the ridiculous amateur tournaments being described here. This move would keep hockey on its current path of global obscurity, falling further and further behind sports like soccer and basketball. Or it could shift from being the centrepiece of the Winter Olympic games to a crap junior tournament that nobody cares about [i.e. Olympic soccer].

 

[mexicohockey]

The IOC has thrown baseball out of the Olympics after their refusal to send the best. I believe they would throw out hockey too before they would move to some of the ridiculous amateur tournaments being described here. This move would keep hockey on its current path of global obscurity, falling further and further behind sports like soccer and basketball.

No way they would. Hockey is a central event at the winter olympics, and some of the more important winter sport nations would strongly oppose it. Baseball has always been a borderline event at the summer games.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

No way they would. Hockey is a central event at the winter olympics, and some of the more important winter sport nations would strongly oppose it. Baseball has always been a borderline event at the summer games.

I absolutely agree. At the SOG you´ve got lots of team sports football (although without it´s best), handballm, basketball, field hockey etc. What else is there left at the WOG besides hockey?

 

[glovesave_35]

However no matter how talented those college/major junior kids would be they would get hammered by a Russian KHL selection or by a Swedish SEL selection, I don´t understand this but very few people in North America seem to understand the huge difference in junior and senior hockey there is, talent isn´t the only important thing there is in this case.

I didn't say the North Americans would win anything. I literally said in the first sentence that Russia would have the best team. I fully understand the difference between playing 19 year olds against grown men, however the only two Euro leagues that I think would be significantly better than the best 22 or under North Americans are the two you mention, KHL and SEL. I'll put my money on a team of Canada's best 22 and under players against a team comprised of Slovak or Czech league men.

 

[glovesave_35]

The belief that juniors is better hockey than top players of European leagues is an absolute delusion that mayn North Americans suffer from. There are more than just 4 teams in the Olympics, and IMO teams with little numbers of players can put up way superior teams at the senior level than the junior. Latvia for example can keep up a score close at the senior level while they´re gonna get killed by 15 goals in juniors, yeah sure that´s just so more interesting, right?

Actually, Latvia got killed by a few teams in Torino. There were a handful of lopsided wins, certainly nothing like we see in juniors though, but there are many reasons for why the younger players lose worse.

Lopsided scores from 2006:

•Russia 9 - Latvia 2
•Sweden 6 - Latvia 1
•Slovakia 6 - Latvia 3
•Russia 5 - Sweden 0
•Canada 5 - Germany 1
•Sweden 7 - Kazakhstan 2
•Canada 7 - Italy 2
•Finland 5 - Switzerland 0

 

[slovakiasnextone]

I didn't say the North Americans would win anything. I literally said in the first sentence that Russia would have the best team. I fully understand the difference between playing 19 year olds against grown men, however the only two Euro leagues that I think would be significantly better than the best 22 or under North Americans are the two you mention, KHL and SEL. I'll put my money on a team of Canada's best 22 and under players against a team comprised of Slovak or Czech league men.

Maybe you do, but the fact remains that the majority of North Aericans doesn´t.
However nor the Czech republic nor Slovakia would send a tea of players from their leagues as both have enough players in leagues like KHL or SEL, so the fact whether or not the best US/Canada juniors could or couldn´t compete against players from those leagues is not iportant to this discussion. But anyway, it makes it sound like you do not understand the difference between junior and senior level even though you claim you do. They would even have trouble with a team like Germany with players mainly from DEL, which is even weaker than the Czech Extraliga. This German team with a few additions can keep up in a game with the top teams with NHL talent, so what chance does a bunch of kids even though very talented have against them? Oh, yeah and btw it´s ipossible for Canada´s 22 and under best men to play in the Olympics without NHL participation, how many of Canada´s 18-22 talents are actually playing in the NHL already? It wouldn´t even be a top team.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Actually, Latvia got killed by a few teams in Torino. There were a handful of lopsided wins, certainly nothing like we see in juniors though, but there are many reasons for why the younger players lose worse.

Lopsided scores from 2006:

•Russia 9 - Latvia 2
•Sweden 6 - Latvia 1
•Slovakia 6 - Latvia 3
•Russia 5 - Sweden 0
•Canada 5 - Germany 1
•Sweden 7 - Kazakhstan 2
•Canada 7 - Italy 2
•Finland 5 - Switzerland 0

Yes, because loosing by 3 goals is comparable to losing by 16,right? In such a game the score could easily have been very close up to the like 50th minute and the 6th, or even 5th as well goals could have been scored on an empoty net.

Even the biggest Canada homer and WJC fan can´t claim that the level that Latvia plays at the WJC is higher or more entertaining than the one it does at the Olympics.

Plus Latvia is better now than in 06, also thanks to Dinamo Riga, so is Kazakhstan due to Barys. Oh yea, and pointing out Italy, the only reason why they ever played at the tournament them being the hosts, it´s not like it wouldn´t get nasty with 20+ scores had they played their U20 team against the top U20 teams in the world.

 

[NewFang]

Ovechkin would be on that team whether the NHL likes it or not.

Way to miss the point

 

[Hero]

OHL + WHL + QJMHL vs KHL

nice.

 

[mexicohockey]

OHL + WHL + QJMHL vs KHL

nice.

Canadian juniors will get blown away.