Sportsnet: Trouba Requests Trade - Part III

[Guffman]

The reason nobody's buying it is because it's a flawed premise. If I'm a gm who wants to trade for Trouba's rights, I'm going to talk to Overcharge and see if the kid's going to play for me or not. If he's willing, I'm going to work out contract details and then call Chevy.
He doesn't have a contract, and that means anybody is free to talk to him about what he wants. Nobody at all is going to trade for his rights and then find out whether or not he's willing to sign and for what price.

Seems like you wasted a whole day.

Err, I think that was my (and FFH's) point. It just seemed that the convos over the past couple of days about whether he needed to be signed first (he doesn't) was just pointless.

Sorry for being blunt. Trying to steer the convo back to a more interesting converstion.

 

[mondo3]

I hope if we aren't offered an equivalent player for Trouba, Chevy considers taking a first round pick (from a bad team and not lottery protected) as part of a package (maybe in 2018 as next year is not supposed to be a deep draft).

 

[Ducky10]

So, why are we discussing Trouba at all? When it comes right down to it, he really has to sign with the Jets by December 1 and we don't have to trade him.

In both situations, you have to be worried about whether he is going to be a continual distraction for the team. The Jets stated this year that they are really only interested in keeping players that want to be a Jet. Presumably, other teams share that mindset.

Forcing players to play for you is just not an ideal situation.

This is correct, the rest is just noise.

If anyone is forcing anything here it's the Trouba camp trying to force a trade, how is this on the Jets?

Trouba has very little leverage, that's why this whole stance is so stupid. The Jets hold all the cards to make sure this works out best for them. It being some kind of distraction can't allow them to make a poor decision on what that will be. I'll be very disappointed if Chevy allows that to happen, but I don't think he will.

 

[ps241]

Sure, the Jets wouldn't care whether Trouba is happy with his trade destination as long as the Jets get their desired trade bounty. BUT...a team is not giving up a big trade bounty if they know the player will be disgruntled playing for them. That is why I don't think the trade market is that wide for him.

Example...say three years from now, Matthews says he wants to be traded to a major US market. Would you support the Jets matching the Leafs presumably high trade demands for him to acquire Matthews? Heck no. You're just inheriting the headache from the Leafs that you now have to deal with. If a player is going to be disgruntled playing for you, I wouldn't be giving up premier assets to acquire him.

I understand the overall point of why would teams bother with Trouba if he didn't want to play there.....that is the stage "I assume" we are in now where via the poison pill Trouba can influence options. My point is I believe short of something sweet falling into Chevy's lap that works for all parties Kevin will do what it takes to sign and either play or trade Trouba. What Jacob wants becomes much less relavent to aquiring teams if he has a signed contract (I doubt Kane was jumping for joy to go to Buffalo). At some point I believe the financial pressure will get to Trouba and he will relent and lose his leverage to dictate where he goes.

Do I think a team would trade for Jacob if he was under contract and he wasn't thrilled with the aquiring team? Hell yes. Would we get the value back we are looking for? That might depend on length and term of contract.

Time will tell I guess.

 

[Guffman]

I understand the overall point of why would teams bother with Trouba if he didn't want to play there.....that is the stage "I assume" we are in now where via the poison pill Trouba can influence options. My point is I believe short of something sweet falling into Chevy's lap that works for all parties Kevin will do what it takes to sign and either play or trade Trouba. What Jacob wants becomes much less relavent to aquiring teams if he has a signed contract (I doubt Kane was jumping for joy to go to Buffalo). At some point I believe the financial pressure will get to Trouba and he will relent and lose his leverage to dictate where he goes.

Do I think a team would trade for Jacob if he was under contract and he wasn't thrilled with the aquiring team? Hell yes. Would we get the value back we are looking for? That might depend on length and term of contract.

Time will tell I guess.

If we have Trouba under contract, and let's say Trouba's camp has made it well known that he wants to be traded to a US destination, I don't think that it would preclude a team like the Oilers from getting involved, but I don't think the Oilers would offer premium assets in a trade in that case.

Barring a trade over the next 6 weeks (unlikely), Trouba likely signs a bridge with the Jets and he remains on the trade market behind the scenes until the right deal comes down. If he remains unhappy here, perhaps over time, he becomes less fussy on the destination if it results in a better opportunity.

All speculation. Who knows what Trouba REALLY wants? I doubt it's about the left-side/right-side garbage.

 

[ICdave]

Consolidated list of all the teams supposedly in the running.

Click here.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I disagree strongly on Philly. They have one right shot D and buckets of left D.

Good work. Gives perspective to trade talk. Underlines that Trouba is sitting until Chevy changes his requirements.

I found a few issues though.

Anaheim - Stoner is a lefty. Bieksa is 35 and past his peak. Trouba pushes him down.

Philadelphia - Streit is 39 in Dec. He could fall off a cliff any minute now. Ghost is a lefty. He plays on the right because they don't have any RHD to speak of. They might need RHD more than any other team in the league. All their good prospects are lefties.

Toronto - Rielly is a lefty. They are looking for a RHD partner for him. Zaitsev looks good but is still unproven in the NHL.

So bump up Philly and Anaheim to possible, got it, thanks guys. Under my criteria Toronto I think is still a possible. Post is updated, will bump in next thread.

 

[Unholy goalie]

If we have Trouba under contract, and let's say Trouba's camp has made it well known that he wants to be traded to a US destination, I don't think that it would preclude a team like the Oilers from getting involved, but I don't think the Oilers would offer premium assets in a trade in that case.

Barring a trade over the next 6 weeks (unlikely), Trouba likely signs a bridge with the Jets and he remains on the trade market behind the scenes until the right deal comes down. If he remains unhappy here, perhaps over time, he becomes less fussy on the destination if it results in a better opportunity.

All speculation. Who knows what Trouba REALLY wants? I doubt it's about the left-side/right-side garbage.

Here's the catch though.. Trouba is not going to sign. Think about it. If he really wants to control the destination he can't afford to give up the "I won't sign there" leverage he's trying to drum up. Sure, he could sign a "trade-friendly" deal with the understanding that he's already "warned" certain teams... but there's no advantage to putting himself in that position. Turris just wanted out, and Johansen wanted money. Trouba's case is different because he wants to be somewhere specific. Because of this I think he'll sit the year Peca style, or hit the Swiss league if he's hard up for cash, but I would be shocked if he signed.

I can think of one possible scenario under which we would see a signing and it would be the following:

Chevy to other team's GM: I want X, Y, Z for Trouba.

Other GM: I can't really do that. Maybe X and Y, but not Z.

Chevy: Ok, how about if I add one of A, B, or C?

Other GM: Not interested, but look.. I don't want the headache of signing this kid and I hate talking to Overshart, so what if you do me a solid and get him signed before we trade. Overshart told us that Trouba would sign here for $$$$$ x 6yrs but if you can offer him $$$ x 6yrs and get him to sign before Dec. 1st, I'll give you X, Y, AND Z.

Basically, another GM giving a more generous trade return so that they can use Chevy's negotiating leverage to get him signed without having to deal directly with the agent. Then we might see a last minute signing followed by a rapid trade.

 

[TheRocketFlash]

Trade with Montreal

Would something like Nathan Beaulieu and Mikhail Sergachev for Trouba and Petan/Copp be worth considering? Is that close to fair for both sides?

Gets a decent second pairing LHD now and a promising young player..

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/20...y-dekeyser-dylan-larkin-nuh-uh-aint-happening

“I mentioned Detroit a couple of weeks ago publicly as being one of the primary suitors for Jacob Trouba. I can tell you that Kenny Holland has worked incredibly hard over the past couple few years at trying to add a defenseman. I know that he’s had conversations with Cheveldayoff, and I believe that Holland is willing to make a deal for just about anyone outside of Dylan Larkin. But there’s no one really in the Detroit Red Wings organization that seems to be a fit for Cheveldayoff, which tells me that Winnipeg, again, is committed to being patient.â€

There is probably a possible deal with Detroit as far as assets go. It wouldn't be exactly what Chevy has stated he wants. But there is no way Detroit can pay Trouba. Just no way. They can't trade for anybody whose salary counts against the cap. They are more than 4 mil over right now.

 

[Guffman]

Here's the catch though.. Trouba is not going to sign. Think about it. If he really wants to control the destination he can't afford to give up the "I won't sign there" leverage he's trying to drum up. Sure, he could sign a "trade-friendly" deal with the understanding that he's already "warned" certain teams... but there's no advantage to putting himself in that position. Turris just wanted out, and Johansen wanted money. Trouba's case is different because he wants to be somewhere specific. Because of this I think he'll sit the year Peca style, or hit the Swiss league if he's hard up for cash, but I would be shocked if he signed.

I can think of one possible scenario under which we would see a signing and it would be the following:

Chevy to other team's GM: I want X, Y, Z for Trouba.

Other GM: I can't really do that. Maybe X and Y, but not Z.

Chevy: Ok, how about if I add one of A, B, or C?

Other GM: Not interested, but look.. I don't want the headache of signing this kid and I hate talking to Overshart, so what if you do me a solid and get him signed before we trade. Overshart told us that Trouba would sign here for $$$$$ x 6yrs but if you can offer him $$$ x 6yrs and get him to sign before Dec. 1st, I'll give you X, Y, AND Z.

Basically, another GM giving a more generous trade return so that they can use Chevy's negotiating leverage to get him signed without having to deal directly with the agent. Then we might see a last minute signing followed by a rapid trade.

Any team trading for Trouba will have the contract negotiated and agreed on with Overcharge. Jets are not negotiating a contract on behalf of another team rofl.

Come December 1, Trouba really has to sign with the Jets (almost certainly a bridge). It would be absolutely ridiculous for him to sit a whole year without getting a year closer to UFA.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Did some digging and if Trouba holds out until the last moment it will cost him 25 games or 30% of the season. Depending on what he signs for he looks to be down over $1 million with this tactic.

If he had signed for 6x5 it would be $1,524,390.24 - if it goes by games not days on the roster. Don't forget the $.24

 

[Aavco Cup]

If he had signed for 6x5 it would be $1,524,390.24 - if it goes by games not days on the roster. Don't forget the $.24

It's days. I count 179 days in the season this year so each day he misses from Oct 12th onward costs him 1/179 of his salary or just under $30k/day if he signed as above.

 

[surixon]

Here's the catch though.. Trouba is not going to sign. Think about it. If he really wants to control the destination he can't afford to give up the "I won't sign there" leverage he's trying to drum up. Sure, he could sign a "trade-friendly" deal with the understanding that he's already "warned" certain teams... but there's no advantage to putting himself in that position. Turris just wanted out, and Johansen wanted money. Trouba's case is different because he wants to be somewhere specific. Because of this I think he'll sit the year Peca style, or hit the Swiss league if he's hard up for cash, but I would be shocked if he signed.

I can think of one possible scenario under which we would see a signing and it would be the following:

Chevy to other team's GM: I want X, Y, Z for Trouba.

Other GM: I can't really do that. Maybe X and Y, but not Z.

Chevy: Ok, how about if I add one of A, B, or C?

Other GM: Not interested, but look.. I don't want the headache of signing this kid and I hate talking to Overshart, so what if you do me a solid and get him signed before we trade. Overshart told us that Trouba would sign here for $$$$$ x 6yrs but if you can offer him $$$ x 6yrs and get him to sign before Dec. 1st, I'll give you X, Y, AND Z.

Basically, another GM giving a more generous trade return so that they can use Chevy's negotiating leverage to get him signed without having to deal directly with the agent. Then we might see a last minute signing followed by a rapid trade.

I think you may overestimate Jacob's resolve to miss a year of pay. As of now he really hasn't made that much coin.

 

[Huffer]

Would something like Nathan Beaulieu and Mikhail Sergachev for Trouba and Petan/Copp be worth considering? Is that close to fair for both sides?

Gets a decent second pairing LHD now and a promising young player..

I'd do it, but I think Sergachev looks like a future top pairing guy. I would have to think the Habs are not super interested in dealing him. I'd also try to package Burmistrov over Petan or Copp.

I think with Weber and Petry on the right side though that the Habs probably aren't too interested.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What about a three way with someone? Detroit 1st + Prospect

Joke. Laugh to myself. Too easy. Probably modded out anyway.

Detroit can't do anything that doesn't involve teams taking a lot of cap off of them.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Trouba has control over his destinations. That was established about 1k posts ago.

To quite an extent yes. To a lesser extent but still significant after he has signed a contract, depending somewhat on the contract he signs.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Err, I think that was my (and FFH's) point. It just seemed that the convos over the past couple of days about whether he needed to be signed first (he doesn't) was just pointless.

Sorry for being blunt. Trying to steer the convo back to a more interesting converstion.

That point was being overstated and/or misstated. There is one set of circumstances that applies without a contract and another with a contract. The with a contract set varies with the contract. Then there is the argument about the optics and precedent of what should be done. We all know these facts. We don't all agree on the details and the weighting.

I don't like the precedent if we just give him what he wants. He needs to suffer some loss first. He needs to pay a price. After he misses some paydays and after he signs a contract I think he should be traded ASAP but only for a good deal. If it takes a year, or two, or three so be it. I would prefer much faster though and that might require Jacob to be somewhat flexible in his destination demands if he wants out of Winnipeg before UFA.

As soon as the requisite conditions can be met I want to see the back of him. For that reason I would be somewhat flexible in my trade demands. If I could get the value in players other than top 4 LHD I would take it and make whatever other trades are necessary to get the D we need. Full value for Jacob is a must though. If I then have to overpay from our abundant assets to get what we need I wouldn't bat an eye.

 

[Guffman]

That point was being overstated and/or misstated. There is one set of circumstances that applies without a contract and another with a contract. The with a contract set varies with the contract. Then there is the argument about the optics and precedent of what should be done. We all know these facts. We don't all agree on the details and the weighting.

I don't like the precedent if we just give him what he wants. He needs to suffer some loss first. He needs to pay a price. After he misses some paydays and after he signs a contract I think he should be traded ASAP but only for a good deal. If it takes a year, or two, or three so be it. I would prefer much faster though and that might require Jacob to be somewhat flexible in his destination demands if he wants out of Winnipeg before UFA.

As soon as the requisite conditions can be met I want to see the back of him. For that reason I would be somewhat flexible in my trade demands. If I could get the value in players other than top 4 LHD I would take it and make whatever other trades are necessary to get the D we need. Full value for Jacob is a must though. If I then have to overpay from our abundant assets to get what we need I wouldn't bat an eye.

I can largely agree with what you stated.

 

[mondo3]

Maybe we're looking at this too deeply...perhaps he just told his agent to make up any excuse so he could skip training camp and then jump in for the regular season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Consolidated list of all the teams supposedly in the running.

Click here.

Do any of those articles explain how Detroit would be ABLE to acquire Trouba, regardless of how badly they may want him and regardless of how big a package they may be willing to offer given the cap situation they are in?

They are 4.238 million over the cap right now with 23 on their roster. Do they have some LTIR coming up that I have missed? Any other cap relief that I am unaware of? Does any trade offer from Detroit include ~10 mil in cap hit coming back to the Jets? Are they going to trade some good player(s) for bottom feeders to free up the space?

I don't know how they plan on getting under the cap without taking on Trouba. With him it appears insurmountable. And yet they seem to be the most often mentioned team. Colour me baffled.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So bump up Philly and Anaheim to possible, got it, thanks guys. Under my criteria Toronto I think is still a possible. Post is updated, will bump in next thread.

Didn't mention but Streit is also a lefty. I think Philly should be bumped to 'preferred'. Radko Gudas is the only natural RD they have. Among their D prospects we get down to at least #5 before we find a right shot.

The only impediment from the Philly side should be their cap situation. We could (should!) take Streit off their hands. He could play 2nd pair until Morrissey is ready to move up. He is a lot better than any of our depth LD. His contract is 5.25 mil for only 1 more year. His actual salary is 4 mil. We could probably get something good for him at the TD. That is assuming that last year was not his 'last' year. In that case he is just a cap dump that we eat.

The only impediment from Chevy's POV would be having to take a prospect instead of a plug and play replacement for Trouba. I don't think we would have any chance of landing Provorov but Sanheim is a very strong, near ready prospect. With us taking a cap dump philly would need to add something to Sanheim to make up the value. Strit covers the hole for this year. Sanheim is (hopefully) ready next year and we are stronger, longer with this deal.

I may be wearing the rose coloured glasses but it looks like a near perfect fit to me. Mind you I have seen near perfect fits before.

Philly fans refuse to acknowledge it (at least the ones I have seen) but they are absolutely desperate for a top 4 (2) RHD. Trouba and Philly should love each other. JMO

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I can largely agree with what you stated.

But, but: it's what I said, just stated slightly differently.

I do think we're all much closer on what we want to see out of this, with slight differences in wants for player vs. roster vs. franchise.

 

[sully1410]

Joke. Laugh to myself. Too easy. Probably modded out anyway.

Detroit can't do anything that doesn't involve teams taking a lot of cap off of them.

I'd imagine the starting point on ANY trade with them is Dekeyser. They would still have to add big time though.

 

[sully1410]

One thing we haven't talked about is trading Trouba for a guy like Johansen or Ducheme or something and then deal from our forward depth for the D we are looking for.