Spooner on Claude relationship

[LSCII]

You stated that Julien has "an agenda" against Spooner. That's something more than simply not liking a style of play. That suggests something more nefarious. Something more personal.

You also stated, with seeming certitude, that Julien doesn't want Spooner on the roster. So it was "the organization" that switched him to wing? Right. Julien is the Head Coach in the organization. You really believe he had no say in that? And you talk about other people being out of touch with reality.

You also rail on about CJ playing Jeremy Reich over Kessel (or Seguin or whoever), but when it's pointed out to you that Clode kept Spooner in the lineup after Krejci came back, you say it's because he had no choice because Krejci couldn't play centre. Rubbish! He could have pulled a Reich move and pulled Spooner in favour of some other plug - Ferlin or Paille or whoever was available. But he didn't, did he?

"Simple truth"? It's clear that you're incapable of recognizing anything close to it! If a player is benched or sent down it's because the coach has an agenda against him. If he plays the player, it's because his "hands were tied"! What utter preposterous nonsense!

There are pigeons with better reasoning skills.

The simple truth is that Julien put Spooner in the lineup because he was playing well - better than he had been on previous call-ups. And he kept him in the lineup for the same reason. He said so himself. "The way he's playing, he's not coming out of this line-up."

That's a hell of an agenda.

The truth is, Claude showed a lot of confidence in Spooner (and Pasta). Given his conservative, defence-first nature (which nobody is arguing), he played them together, gave them a lot of ice time, gave Spooner an important role on the PP, and had them out there in OT a lot.

Again, that's a hell of an agenda.

I never said Krejci couldn't play center. That's all you, bro. Made up arguments are fun. What I said was DK was hurt and not playing when you tried to use depth at that position as an argument (because you listed PB, DK, CS, GC), but don't let that stop you. You're rolling.

I said like Krug, Spooner's play forced Julien's hand, and they both only got in because of injuries to veteran players who gave very little (Morrow is where Krug and Spooner were, right now). I mean, you don't find it curious that he split up his most productive line in the middle of a 5 game winning streak, for the most important game of the season? I mean, seriously? That's showing confidence in Spooner and Pasta? Really? How badly do you want to pretend this coach isn't a problem that you'd go to the lengths you have to ignore reality? You can delude yourself all you want, but I'm fully aware of the on ice issues Julien created for the team this year. Campbell on ice down a goal with a minute left showed me everything I needed to know. He needs to go and right now. The guy is too stubborn and too rigid, and he's hurting the team because of it.

 

[HumBucker]

I never said Krejci couldn't play center. That's all you, bro. Made up arguments are fun. What I said was DK was hurt and not playing when you tried to use depth at that position as an argument (because you listed PB, DK, CS, GC), but don't let that stop you. You're rolling.

I said like Krug, Spooner's play forced Julien's hand, and they both only got in because of injuries to veteran players who gave very little (Morrow is where Krug and Spooner were, right now). I mean, you don't find it curious that he split up his most productive line in the middle of a 5 game winning streak, for the most important game of the season? I mean, seriously? That's showing confidence in Spooner and Pasta? Really? How badly do you want to pretend this coach isn't a problem that you'd go to the lengths you have to ignore reality? You can delude yourself all you want, but I'm fully aware of the on ice issues Julien created for the team this year. Campbell on ice down a goal with a minute left showed me everything I needed to know. He needs to go and right now. The guy is too stubborn and too rigid, and he's hurting the team because of it.

You're fully aware, and everyone else is delusional.
Oooo-kay.

 

[LSCII]

You're fully aware, and everyone else is delusional.
Oooo-kay.

Right, can't argue the point, so you revert to nonsense, again. Sweet.

 

[HumBucker]

I never said Krejci couldn't play center. That's all you, bro. Made up arguments are fun. What I said was DK was hurt and not playing when you tried to use depth at that position as an argument (because you listed PB, DK, CS, GC), but don't let that stop you. You're rolling.

I said like Krug, Spooner's play forced Julien's hand, and they both only got in because of injuries to veteran players who gave very little (Morrow is where Krug and Spooner were, right now). I mean, you don't find it curious that he split up his most productive line in the middle of a 5 game winning streak, for the most important game of the season? I mean, seriously? That's showing confidence in Spooner and Pasta? Really? How badly do you want to pretend this coach isn't a problem that you'd go to the lengths you have to ignore reality? You can delude yourself all you want, but I'm fully aware of the on ice issues Julien created for the team this year. Campbell on ice down a goal with a minute left showed me everything I needed to know. He needs to go and right now. The guy is too stubborn and too rigid, and he's hurting the team because of it.

I thought it was you that said it was because of DK's injury that Julien played him at wing. So maybe it was someone else. I don't recall saying anything about depth at centre - so we're even. Honest mistake. So you played the "made up arguments" card. Cool. Bro.

You keep making this "forced his hand" point, which is, of course, ludicrous. Did Bobby Orr "force the hand" of coaches? That's to suggest that a coach wouldn't have played x player for some nefarious reason. Does it kill you to give some credit to Julien for seeing that Spooner's game improved and recognizing that he can help the team win?

You actually think any successful NHL coach wouldn't see that and do the same thing?

But here's the thing - You seem to think that I'm arguing that Julien doesn't have deficiencies in his coaching style. I'm not arguing that. Never have. So let's toss out that straw man. I agree it was a bad idea (at least in retrospect) to split up that line. I think I even registered surprise about it in the GDT when they announced the lines.

None of that is the least bit germane to the idiotic idea that he had an "agenda" against Spooner. He made a coaching decision. Yes, he tends to favour experienced vets over relatively untested and defensively questionable rookies in big games. No one is arguing that!

Is it "curious" that he split up that line, you ask, like a tin-hatted conspiracy theorist? For Claude Julien - no, not really.

Yet you - who continually harp on his tendency to play vets over young players - you find it "curious"? One would think you, who's "fully aware" of all this stuff, could have predicted it!

So are you suggesting that he made that decision to punish Spooner or something? You've stated that he has an agenda against Spooner.

Can you at least directly answer that question? Does Julien have an agenda against Spooner in particular?

 

[LSCII]

I thought it was you that said it was because of DK's injury that Julien played him at wing. So maybe it was someone else. I don't recall saying anything about depth at centre - so we're even. Honest mistake. So you played the "made up arguments" card. Cool. Bro.

You keep making this "forced his hand" point, which is, of course, ludicrous. Did Bobby Orr "force the hand" of coaches? That's to suggest that a coach wouldn't have played x player for some nefarious reason. Does it kill you to give some credit to Julien for seeing that Spooner's game improved and recognizing that he can help the team win?

You actually think any successful NHL coach wouldn't see that and do the same thing?

But here's the thing - You seem to think that I'm arguing that Julien doesn't have deficiencies in his coaching style. I'm not arguing that. Never have. So let's toss out that straw man. I agree it was a bad idea (at least in retrospect) to split up that line. I think I even registered surprise about it in the GDT when they announced the lines.

None of that is the least bit germane to the idiotic idea that he had an "agenda" against Spooner. He made a coaching decision. Yes, he tends to favour experienced vets over relatively untested and defensively questionable rookies in big games. No one is arguing that!

Is it "curious" that he split up that line, you ask, like a tin-hatted conspiracy theorist? For Claude Julien - no, not really.

Yet you - who continually harp on his tendency to play vets over young players - you find it "curious"? One would think you, who's "fully aware" of all this stuff, could have predicted it!

So are you suggesting that he made that decision to punish Spooner or something? You've stated that he has an agenda against Spooner.

Can you at least directly answer that question? Does Julien have an agenda against Spooner in particular?

I've answered your question a hundred times over in this thread. If you can't see it, I can't help you further. He doesn't have an agenda against the guy personally. He has an agenda against all guys like him. Young offensive minded players equal risk to Julien, therefore he'd averse to playing them. To the detriment of the team. if you can't understand what I'm saying, it's again, on you. His unwillingness to play them is hurting the team. There's no great shock that this team looked old and slow this season. It's what they've been moving towards for a few years now. Aging vets being overpaid taking up roles that most other teams in the league use to bring up rookies. Julien doesn't. And it's a big piece of the problem here.

 

[Gee Wally]

On top of his obvious offensive abilities, Spooner also showed at least a willingness to compete in his own zone. He was hardly a perfect defender. And, with a 5-foot-11, 181-pound frame, he’s never going to blast opposing players off the puck. But in his final recall, Spooner simply utilized his speed to get to loose pucks. If he can develop tricks to win puck battles along the boards as Patrice Bergeron and Brad Marchand have, he could really be a player.

To his undying credit, Spooner never played the “I just needed the chance†card after showing he could play in the NHL. He’s consistently taken responsibility for his shortcomings in training camp and early in the season, when he was held off the score sheet in five games before being sent to Providence upon Campbell’s return.

“I think I was just afraid to make a mistake and kind of put a lot of pressure on myself to come in and make the team and that’s kind of not a way to play,†said Spooner on the April 13 break-up day. “I didn’t really make the plays that I should have. If I come into camp in this next season coming up I’m going to just try to go out there and have fun.â€

There is work to be done. For example, he won just 45.4 percent of his faceoffs.

“I had some ups and downs on that. I had some games where I’ve been good, some games where I was bad,†Spooner said. “And then I’d say probably, I guess, defensively (I have to improve). It’s going to take some time, too. I’ve only played like (56 NHL games) so I’m going to try to work on that too.â€

It’s still too early to tell where the restricted free agent fits in the Bruins’ future, if he does at all. Team president Cam Neely said he’s looking for the B’s to regain some of their old identity — which wouldn’t bode well for Spooner — but he’s also looking for skill, and Spooner’s got plenty.


http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/.../04/ryan_spooner_s_rise_near_loss_instructive

 

[ODAAT]

On top of his obvious offensive abilities, Spooner also showed at least a willingness to compete in his own zone. He was hardly a perfect defender. And, with a 5-foot-11, 181-pound frame, he’s never going to blast opposing players off the puck. But in his final recall, Spooner simply utilized his speed to get to loose pucks. If he can develop tricks to win puck battles along the boards as Patrice Bergeron and Brad Marchand have, he could really be a player.

To his undying credit, Spooner never played the “I just needed the chance†card after showing he could play in the NHL. He’s consistently taken responsibility for his shortcomings in training camp and early in the season, when he was held off the score sheet in five games before being sent to Providence upon Campbell’s return.

“I think I was just afraid to make a mistake and kind of put a lot of pressure on myself to come in and make the team and that’s kind of not a way to play,†said Spooner on the April 13 break-up day. “I didn’t really make the plays that I should have. If I come into camp in this next season coming up I’m going to just try to go out there and have fun.â€

There is work to be done. For example, he won just 45.4 percent of his faceoffs.

“I had some ups and downs on that. I had some games where I’ve been good, some games where I was bad,†Spooner said. “And then I’d say probably, I guess, defensively (I have to improve). It’s going to take some time, too. I’ve only played like (56 NHL games) so I’m going to try to work on that too.â€

It’s still too early to tell where the restricted free agent fits in the Bruins’ future, if he does at all. Team president Cam Neely said he’s looking for the B’s to regain some of their old identity — which wouldn’t bode well for Spooner — but he’s also looking for skill, and Spooner’s got plenty.


http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/.../04/ryan_spooner_s_rise_near_loss_instructive

sure sounds like a kid who knows and agrees that he needed to improve, and show a willingness to make adjustments to his game, then he went out and did it, when his opportunity came up, he was given the chance

good stuff

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I've answered your question a hundred times over in this thread. If you can't see it, I can't help you further. He doesn't have an agenda against the guy personally. He has an agenda against all guys like him. Young offensive minded players equal risk to Julien, therefore he'd averse to playing them. To the detriment of the team. if you can't understand what I'm saying, it's again, on you. His unwillingness to play them is hurting the team. There's no great shock that this team looked old and slow this season. It's what they've been moving towards for a few years now. Aging vets being overpaid taking up roles that most other teams in the league use to bring up rookies. Julien doesn't. And it's a big piece of the problem here.

Don't you think most NHL coaches feel this way? And its not that the youngsters are offensive minded, its that they neglect the rest of the game.

Its not an agenda.

 

[HumBucker]

I've answered your question a hundred times over in this thread. If you can't see it, I can't help you further. He doesn't have an agenda against the guy personally. He has an agenda against all guys like him. Young offensive minded players equal risk to Julien, therefore he'd averse to playing them. To the detriment of the team. if you can't understand what I'm saying, it's again, on you. His unwillingness to play them is hurting the team. There's no great shock that this team looked old and slow this season. It's what they've been moving towards for a few years now. Aging vets being overpaid taking up roles that most other teams in the league use to bring up rookies. Julien doesn't. And it's a big piece of the problem here.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

 

[LSCII]

Don't you think most NHL coaches feel this way? And its not that the youngsters are offensive minded, its that they neglect the rest of the game.

Its not an agenda.

Not the level that Julien does, and other teams still work in youth on the bottom 6. You tell me, who were the youth on the bottom 6 this year that they were working in? Gagne? Nope. Campbell? Nope. Paille? Nope. Kelly? Tablot? Uh, nope. Ferlin got all of 7 games. Cunningham was up and then cut for no reason.

They worked Spooner and Pasta in only after they had no other options, and those guys nearly salvaged the season. Probably would have too if not for Julien's flat out buffoonery with his decisions this season.

 

[BruinDust]

Not the level that Julien does, and other teams still work in youth on the bottom 6. You tell me, who were the youth on the bottom 6 this year that they were working in? Gagne? Nope. Campbell? Nope. Paille? Nope. Kelly? Tablot? Uh, nope. Ferlin got all of 7 games. Cunningham was up and then cut for no reason.

They worked Spooner and Pasta in only after they had no other options, and those guys nearly salvaged the season. Probably would have too if not for Julien's flat out buffoonery with his decisions this season.

I have no doubt that if Julien ran with Spooner in his line-up all season instead of Campbell that Boston gets the 3 points they needed to make the playoffs.

Having forward spots 10 through 12 tied up with veterans Paille - Campbell - Thornton/Gagne/Talbot for the last 5 seasons is one of the reasons Boston has had trouble developing forwards at the NHL level. Wasn't a major issue 2011-2013 because the line was effective The last two seasons Boston's 4th line has been a detriment.

Instead Julien force-feeds rookies like Griffith onto top lines rather than letting them adjust with limited minutes on the 4th line, just so he can keep his precious 4th line of muckers and grinders together.

 

[LSCII]

Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

ob·tuse
əbˈt(y)o͞os,äbˈt(y)o͞os/Submit
adjective

annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
"he wondered if the poster was being deliberately obtuse"

 

[LSCII]

I have no doubt that if Julien ran with Spooner in his line-up all season instead of Campbell that Boston gets the 3 points they needed to make the playoffs.

Having forward spots 10 through 12 tied up with veterans Paille - Campbell - Thornton/Gagne/Talbot for the last 5 seasons is one of the reasons Boston has had trouble developing forwards at the NHL level. Wasn't a major issue 2011-2013 because the line was effective The last two seasons Boston's 4th line has been a detriment.

Instead Julien force-feeds rookies like Griffith onto top lines rather than letting them adjust with limited minutes on the 4th line, just so he can keep his precious 4th line of muckers and grinders together.

Exactly. But no, Julien has a great track record with young guys, according to the riff raff here...

 

[HumBucker]

ob·tuse
əbˈt(y)o͞os,äbˈt(y)o͞os/Submit
adjective

annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
"he wondered if the poster was being deliberately obtuse"

While you've got your dictionary open, look up "hypocrisy" and "mendacious."

I thought good on the kid for not taking it personally. Classy move, even though it was clear Julien had an agenda against him. That's on Claude though, especially since Spooner took the high road.

He doesn't have an agenda against the guy personally.