trellaine201
Registered User
I think maybe the biggest stat on Verlander is the lack of Ks! compared to the previous years.
Blue Jays Discussion: Split Against O's, Up Next, Yankees
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I think maybe the biggest stat on Verlander is the lack of Ks! compared to the previous years.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
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That's what I'm thinking as well. Decent contract, has a comfortable amount of term left, has pitched in the division, off year so the price would be much cheaper and is an under the radar type of move that AA loves. Would much rather go down this or the hammel road as opposed to shark.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Touché
trellaine201
Registered User
I think Sam is too rich for the Jays blood. I think they would be looking at one the Cubs lesser lights.
I'd be all for it, not counting 3 starts this year were he gave up more then 6 runs and get BABIP'd to ****, he would have an ERA of about 3.5, which is pretty good. He would be a lot cheaper to attain then any of the other options, leaving Sanchez and Norris in our system.
Sounds like an AA move to me.
Shark? I don't think AA's going to want to deal Sanchez + Norris+ (what they'd probably ask for at first since AA won't take Hutch/Stroman out of the rotation). I just really hope that if one of Norris/Sanchez is untouchable, it's Norris, and that's as a Sanchez backer.
Honestly, our prospect pool is so deep, and so many guys are starting to progress into full-season ball, AA can afford to make a move and not pillage the farm. Even then, I don't think it's going to be 3 tops 10 prospects. Something like Sanchez + Osuna + Smith + Smoral/Lugo/Labourt/Tirado could be enough if they want a 4 player deal, maybe Nolin as the 4th piece if they want a ML ready guy.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
It will be interesting to see what AA does - the Dickey move hasn't panned out and he gave some touted prospects in that deal ... That experience might make him hesitant to pay a big price for Shark and stick with a cheaper option that could be effective enough
The series against the Cardinals could have been an eye opener to what the rewards could be if he holds on to his young quality arms
The series against the Cardinals could have been an eye opener to what the rewards could be if he holds on to his young quality arms
The thing is, Dickey's stuff was always questionable in the AL, especially at the dome whereas Shark is someone who is more likely to be able to pitch anywhere. I don't know if I agree that he'll be hesitant to part with a guy like Sanchez who might be able to pitch out of the pen this year, but I don't think he's going to give up 2 top 3 prospects again.
I don't know, I'm very on the fence about trading for him, but as long as Norris/Hutch/Stroman stay in the org I'll probably be okay with it, and I'm definitely more "for" it than I was in trading for Dickey when those talks were going on.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
- 27,130
- 2,825
I'm sure their looking at him as a contract dump in a sense which could be really good for us. A couple b level prospects would likely be enough to get it done.
I'll add that after seeing his name I'm actually hoping he's the one we are in fact targeting for all the reason listed
The question I have is what is the limit? I'm reading a lot of posts from people on here saying "go for it' "prospects are so unpredictable" " We need another starter" "we can afford to make a move"
Just because we can afford to make a move doesn't mean we have to. AA has to look at this and say ok I gave up a crap load for Dickey, am I willing to do that again. I don't think he is and I don't blame him. No matter how big our lead is in the division or what our contender status is giving up 4 prospects no matter their ranking is a lot. But with the Cubs apparently they're asking for 4 solid pieces. Now I assume Sanchez/Norris would be one, maybe someone like Barreto or Tirado or something like that, then you're adding another piece and another piece. Yes we have a deep system but that is a lot to give up. I am very weary of giving up prospects we've spent years developing. AA has to do his part to and make sure that he doesn't get pressured into giving up every single piece Chicago wants, it is a negotiation after all. If 3 pieces fit but 1 is a haggling point then AA needs to halt the deal and step back. It has to work both ways. You just can't give up 4-5 pieces of your farm without getting a guarantee back and for me if I'm giving up 4 pieces I want a guy like Price not Samardjzia
Cubs Have Made New Extension Offer To Samardzija
By Steve Adams [June 17, 2014 at 9:02am CDT]
Though most of the rumors surrounding Jeff Samardzija of late have understandably pertained to possible trade destinations, Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Cubs are making a late push to extend their ace. Wittenmyer hears from multiple sources that the Cubs have offered Samardzija a new extension that would keep him in Chicago through 2019. While that contract length is the same as the previous five-year deals Chicago has offered, Wittenmyer says the new offer is for a higher guaranteed number than the previous $60-65MM figure that was proposed.
One source tells Wittenmyer that Samardzija would require something in the vicinity of the $17.5MM annual value that Homer Bailey received on his six-year, $105MM extension with the Reds. That deal, of course, essentially boiled down to a five-year, $95MM extension, as Bailey was already likely to earn about $10MM via arbitration in 2014.
Multiple sources also indicated to Wittenmyer that “at least” two teams, including the Blue Jays, have already had preliminary talks with the Cubs about Samardzija and exchanged potential names that could change hands. He adds that contenders that are looking for starting pitching this summer “still believe Samardzija is firmly on the market.”
I would assume Norris to be one of them.
By Steve Adams [June 17, 2014 at 9:02am CDT]
Though most of the rumors surrounding Jeff Samardzija of late have understandably pertained to possible trade destinations, Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Cubs are making a late push to extend their ace. Wittenmyer hears from multiple sources that the Cubs have offered Samardzija a new extension that would keep him in Chicago through 2019. While that contract length is the same as the previous five-year deals Chicago has offered, Wittenmyer says the new offer is for a higher guaranteed number than the previous $60-65MM figure that was proposed.
One source tells Wittenmyer that Samardzija would require something in the vicinity of the $17.5MM annual value that Homer Bailey received on his six-year, $105MM extension with the Reds. That deal, of course, essentially boiled down to a five-year, $95MM extension, as Bailey was already likely to earn about $10MM via arbitration in 2014.
Multiple sources also indicated to Wittenmyer that “at least” two teams, including the Blue Jays, have already had preliminary talks with the Cubs about Samardzija and exchanged potential names that could change hands. He adds that contenders that are looking for starting pitching this summer “still believe Samardzija is firmly on the market.”
I would assume Norris to be one of them.
The Cubs are reportedly gauging the market value of Jason Hammel, Edwin Jackson and Jake Arrieta in addition to Samardzija — perhaps in an effort to assess what they can pull in via trade should they lock up their most valuable trade chip long-term rather than ship him elsewhere for what would surely be an impressive haul of prospects. Given Samardzija’s excellent season to date and the fact that he is controlled through 2015, it’s hard to envision the Cubs getting anything less than the package they received for two months of Matt Garza last summer. In my estimation, a team would have to top that package — C.J. Edwards, Mike Olt, Justin Grimm and Neil Ramirez — in order to pry Samardzija away from Chicago.
From the same article. If we have to give something similar or even more to that, then the Cubs can GTFO.
From the same article. If we have to give something similar or even more to that, then the Cubs can GTFO.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
That's not THAT big of a package.
Olt - low average, moderate OBP, high power (think slightly better JPA)
Edwards - #4/#5 starter without big time stuff.
Grimm - been bad as a starter, looks like he might be a bullpen guy.
Ramirez - Seems to be slotted in as a closer. Apparently tops out as a mid-rotation starter
If that's a starting point, there should be wiggle room to make a move without giving up Norris. Could probably start with Sanchez and then add some B/C tier guys.
Eyedea
The Legend Continues
The only piece Cubs got back that had any value was CJ Edwards. Olt didn't know how to hit (still doesn't), Ramirez was repeating AA for the third year (Deck is that you), and Grimm was flat out terrible in the majors.
Edwards has a plus fastball and plus curveball. The only question surrounding him is his durability, otherwise he has the potential of a top of the rotation arm.
No question that's a lot to give up, but I also think you're discounting what AA has said all along. Prospects are trade chips just as much as they are future Jays. With this core, I feel like he's willing to pay a price to acquire a player who will be part of 2 possible playoff runs if it means bettering our chances. Do I think he's going to go crazy and deal Sanchez + Norris + Pompey + Baretto? No. But I think if it makes sense, and I think there is a deal that could be had around Sanchez + Nay/Pompey (really don't want to trade Norris/Pompey) that makes sense if he rejects their latest contract offer, he will not hesitate to do the deal.
And honestly, as long as it's not something that includes all of our top prospects, I don't think I'd have a problem with it since it means at least 2 seasons of competing with Shark in our rotation, possibly more if Rogers is willing to pay him.
It's definitely possible to fit them, but it means dropping Stroman either to the pen or Buffalo, and I don't know if the marginal improvement from Stroman to Hammel/EJax/Arieta is worth the added cost of prospects + $$ that it'd take to add them. I'd be happy running Shark-Buerhle-Hutch-Dickey-Stroman as our 5.
topched
Registered User
Not as it stands today, and even still I don't think we need 2 starters.
Have to remember that Brandon Morrow is coming back. So you'll have Buerhle, Dickey, Hutchison, Happ, Stroman and Morrow, in that order. If you're adding in another guy, presumably someone in between Dickey and Hutch (in terms of ability) then the cost for another pitcher probably doesn't provide enough added value.
I'd say Samardzija obviously fits the bill, and Hammel would be a definitive middle of the rotation add too. But Jackson/Arrieta aren't enough of an upgrade to warrant giving up pieces for if you add one of the first two.
Still as Stats01 posted, if the package for Shark is that steep I'm passing. I think you can go get Lee or Price for not much more and the roi is way higher.
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
With how Morrow pitched to start the season plus his injury history, can you really rely on him to be a decent starter down the stretch?
Might be a good add to the BP?
Might be a good add to the BP?
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
He's still got some of the best stuff on the pitching staff. Also sports an FIP of 4.00 from the six starts he made to begin this season. If healthy, you start him.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
- 27,130
- 2,825
To Quik and Topched. Agreed. I was thinking more about who you'd squeeze out to put them in and there's no clear indication. One is enough really and if it's Jackson it should come pretty cheap. AA has had enough dialogue with them that I'm sure he already knows the prospects the Cubs like and he can put together a package of the lesser prospects they have interest in to get it done. I guess with Jackson it's a question of whether they want that extra 11 million salary for two more years.
keithlaw @keithlaw 3h
From January: http://klaw.me/1eiO6sK RT @aurum626: Franklin Barreto has started the season on fire. Can you share any thoughts on him?
Don't have insider, anyone have it. I'd like to see what he said about him/the Jays prospects
From January: http://klaw.me/1eiO6sK RT @aurum626: Franklin Barreto has started the season on fire. Can you share any thoughts on him?
Don't have insider, anyone have it. I'd like to see what he said about him/the Jays prospects
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
he's replying to my post linking Law's January rankings >> http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/stor...an-league-east-top-10-prospects-team-2014-mlb
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
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