Speak Up: Who out there still believes this team can win a Cup?
- Thread starter ColePens
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With Bennett, Megna, and Martin back, a properly configured 4th line, and Fleury not imploding, sure.
The odds are long to start with, so, statistically the default answer is that the team will not win a cup. Having said that, with the above conditions, their chances are as good as any. Probably better than any individual team in the west at this point (although Philly and Tampa are going to rival Boston as serious Eastern contenders).
I wonder what the answer would have been here had you asked this question on 1/11/09 after a badly played overtime loss.
The odds are long to start with, so, statistically the default answer is that the team will not win a cup. Having said that, with the above conditions, their chances are as good as any. Probably better than any individual team in the west at this point (although Philly and Tampa are going to rival Boston as serious Eastern contenders).
I wonder what the answer would have been here had you asked this question on 1/11/09 after a badly played overtime loss.
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Al Smith, that question was asked to me in 2009 and I stood by and said this team, as is, could win the Cup. I said they needed new culture and we had a long thread about it. I said they had lost MT and it was the only issue.
Sivek
Registered User
- Apr 9, 2011
- 3,268
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Barring a MAF implosion, the Pens shouldn't have any trouble making it to the ECF under the new format. The Flyers are the only team in the division that look like a potential playoff opponent that can unhinge the team.
So do I think they can the Cup? Yes, especially if Crosby and Malkin are healthy, but I don't think they will because of the goaltending, bottom of the roster management, and guys like Letang being exposed when they face off against more disciplined teams over the course of a series. Of those factors, the bottom of the roster management is the easiest to fix but least likely to happen. I think I'll see the day when MAF is completely steely eyed before Adams and company are used properly. This team has too many lazy tendencies when it comes to bad pinches (really, this is mainly Letang) and sloppy passes by it's top guys to mitigate those factors at the drop of a hat. I don't see any reason the team will "get it" come spring all of a sudden when they haven't shown the ability to do so in the past.
So yeah, they can win if Sid and Geno are healthy and MAF doesn't completely **** the bed, but I don't see them as a top-3 favorite as of now.
So do I think they can the Cup? Yes, especially if Crosby and Malkin are healthy, but I don't think they will because of the goaltending, bottom of the roster management, and guys like Letang being exposed when they face off against more disciplined teams over the course of a series. Of those factors, the bottom of the roster management is the easiest to fix but least likely to happen. I think I'll see the day when MAF is completely steely eyed before Adams and company are used properly. This team has too many lazy tendencies when it comes to bad pinches (really, this is mainly Letang) and sloppy passes by it's top guys to mitigate those factors at the drop of a hat. I don't see any reason the team will "get it" come spring all of a sudden when they haven't shown the ability to do so in the past.
So yeah, they can win if Sid and Geno are healthy and MAF doesn't completely **** the bed, but I don't see them as a top-3 favorite as of now.
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Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
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I'm not convinced this team can win the Cup for a variety of reasons. In no particular order:
1-Bylsma's coaching. Whether it be systems, personnel decisions, ice time management, etc. On the whole, I just don't think he's capable of getting the best out of *this* group. His penchant for overplaying useless players is one of the things that I think will hurt this club. Last night's loss was a nothing game in the middle of January against a bad team. No biggie. But these are the types of decisions (playing Adams and Glass in key situations) he continually makes, even in the playoffs. Who cares what the result is against Edmonton, but what about when it's an elimination game in the playoffs and he's got Glass and Adams out there against Boston, Chicago, St. Louis, etc?
2-Glass, Adams, and the Useless brigade. This goes hand in hand with the above, but these are the kind of guys that kill this roster. Too much dead weight that does absolutely nothing to help this club. The better teams don't tend to hang on to these sorts of guys. At the very least, they don't have a collection of them. Shero's done a bang up job of bringing in as much useless, dime a dozen 4th liners as you can expect. We already had Glass and Adams, then he goes out and signs guys like Kobasew and picks up Pyatt on waivers. The dead weight needs to be replaced by better players.
3-Scoring depth. I know folks love to throw out where the Pens rank in terms of goals scored, but when I refer to scoring depth, I'm talking from the top guys all the way down to the 3rd and 4th guys. I simply don't think the Pens have the kind of depth scoring on the 3rd and 4th lines to compete with the better teams in the league. Crosby and Malkin going into beast mode may be enough to win a round or two against teams with an equal lack of depth, but when you're talking about the Stanley Cup and the best of the best, the Pens fall short.
4-This partially falls on coaching, partially on the roster. But I'm not sure this team can win it all with this current of Orpik and this season's Letang as two of its 20+ minute men. When you look at just how dominant guys like Chara, Keith, Pietrangelo, etc. are for their respective elite teams, can you expect the same kind of play from Letang? Can Orpik provide shutdown physical defense, or will he be the turnover machine with the hockey IQ of a walnut?
5-Fleury. Sorry, but while his performance this regular season may have turned him back into the elephant in the room, we still haven't seen how he performs in the playoffs after his summer session with Dr. Phil. I'm not banking anything on Fleury not returning to Fleury form until I actually see it. Until then, he's going to be a massive question mark for me.
There are other minor issues I have, but for the most part the biggest issues all revolve around one or more of the above.
1-Bylsma's coaching. Whether it be systems, personnel decisions, ice time management, etc. On the whole, I just don't think he's capable of getting the best out of *this* group. His penchant for overplaying useless players is one of the things that I think will hurt this club. Last night's loss was a nothing game in the middle of January against a bad team. No biggie. But these are the types of decisions (playing Adams and Glass in key situations) he continually makes, even in the playoffs. Who cares what the result is against Edmonton, but what about when it's an elimination game in the playoffs and he's got Glass and Adams out there against Boston, Chicago, St. Louis, etc?
2-Glass, Adams, and the Useless brigade. This goes hand in hand with the above, but these are the kind of guys that kill this roster. Too much dead weight that does absolutely nothing to help this club. The better teams don't tend to hang on to these sorts of guys. At the very least, they don't have a collection of them. Shero's done a bang up job of bringing in as much useless, dime a dozen 4th liners as you can expect. We already had Glass and Adams, then he goes out and signs guys like Kobasew and picks up Pyatt on waivers. The dead weight needs to be replaced by better players.
3-Scoring depth. I know folks love to throw out where the Pens rank in terms of goals scored, but when I refer to scoring depth, I'm talking from the top guys all the way down to the 3rd and 4th guys. I simply don't think the Pens have the kind of depth scoring on the 3rd and 4th lines to compete with the better teams in the league. Crosby and Malkin going into beast mode may be enough to win a round or two against teams with an equal lack of depth, but when you're talking about the Stanley Cup and the best of the best, the Pens fall short.
4-This partially falls on coaching, partially on the roster. But I'm not sure this team can win it all with this current of Orpik and this season's Letang as two of its 20+ minute men. When you look at just how dominant guys like Chara, Keith, Pietrangelo, etc. are for their respective elite teams, can you expect the same kind of play from Letang? Can Orpik provide shutdown physical defense, or will he be the turnover machine with the hockey IQ of a walnut?
5-Fleury. Sorry, but while his performance this regular season may have turned him back into the elephant in the room, we still haven't seen how he performs in the playoffs after his summer session with Dr. Phil. I'm not banking anything on Fleury not returning to Fleury form until I actually see it. Until then, he's going to be a massive question mark for me.
There are other minor issues I have, but for the most part the biggest issues all revolve around one or more of the above.
This will be a short thread.
If Fleury can shake his playoff demons, and the coaching staff changes the personnel being used in the bottom 6, this team certainly has a chance to go far again.
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
yes we can. We aren't as good as we should be, but we are still one of the best teams in the league. Boston is the only team in the east that I would call the favorite in a series against us.
My very concise take.
Can this roster win? Absolutely. Can this team win? Nope.
7 game series tend to negate talent if that's all you have.
Can this roster win? Absolutely. Can this team win? Nope.
7 game series tend to negate talent if that's all you have.
cheesedanish87
Registered User
I think its better to ask this question after the trade deadline.
Two of the things you have to have to win a cup is goaltending and depth.
I just don't know how anybody could feel confident about a MAF/Zatkoff tandem heading into the playoffs.
The pens don't have the depth in the bottom 6 to win a cup this year IMO.
I might change my mind after the trade deadline but as of right now i would say its unlikely they can win a cup with the roster they have right now.
SidDidNothingWrong
Beau's IcedCapp
- Jan 2, 2014
- 2,284
- 9
In a phrase?
Upward progress.
We won the Cup in 09 and then lost in the first round 2011,2012, lost in the second round 2010 and lost in the third round last year.
At points it looked like we were going to lose in the first round, overcame adversity, and then railed Ottawa in the second round. We got swept in the conference round but if you believe that the Bruins outright dominated us you are a fool. Those games were much closer than everyone thinks. Our team didn't even get a chance to spark. That double overtime non call and the myriad of hit posts just seemed like things that weren't able to happen at the same time. But we must move on, right? I think the Pens will have a lot more conviction this time around, making sure they cement their chances. Veteran leadership in the locker room is speaking out in the form of Scuds and even Crosby appears to be ticked off recently. The second half of the season the players will discuss the post season and will be amped as hell to play.
You heard it here first.
Upward progress.
We won the Cup in 09 and then lost in the first round 2011,2012, lost in the second round 2010 and lost in the third round last year.
At points it looked like we were going to lose in the first round, overcame adversity, and then railed Ottawa in the second round. We got swept in the conference round but if you believe that the Bruins outright dominated us you are a fool. Those games were much closer than everyone thinks. Our team didn't even get a chance to spark. That double overtime non call and the myriad of hit posts just seemed like things that weren't able to happen at the same time. But we must move on, right? I think the Pens will have a lot more conviction this time around, making sure they cement their chances. Veteran leadership in the locker room is speaking out in the form of Scuds and even Crosby appears to be ticked off recently. The second half of the season the players will discuss the post season and will be amped as hell to play.
You heard it here first.
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
NOT A SPAM POST. I just like analogous YT links to emphasize my post.
The long and short of it is if the things we all see do not get changed, I do not see the team going all that far into the playoffs. So far I see some baby steps but not enough to give me hope enough have changed to go far. I do not care who we add, that was not our problem. See 'All in' last year. The changes need to be more fundamental than shuffling players.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 76,590
- 21,129
Sure we can.
The East is weak. Boston's our biggest competition and I don't like their chances beating us this year. Our inability to convert scoring chances was an aberration, our defensive system has been strengthened by Martin, Dupuis physically cannot play on the 1st line, and the Bruins suffered some considerable losses in personnel.
Maatta, Bennett, and Megna will give us a nice injection of talent, youth and fire.
Health and MAF-sanity permitting, we've got a great chance at the Cup.
The East is weak. Boston's our biggest competition and I don't like their chances beating us this year. Our inability to convert scoring chances was an aberration, our defensive system has been strengthened by Martin, Dupuis physically cannot play on the 1st line, and the Bruins suffered some considerable losses in personnel.
Maatta, Bennett, and Megna will give us a nice injection of talent, youth and fire.
Health and MAF-sanity permitting, we've got a great chance at the Cup.
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
Bylsma is still the coach; Fleury is still the starting goaltender; and Shero still backs both.
The answer is no.
The answer is no.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 55,782
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You have to beat the West as well to win the Cup, RRP. I don't care how weak the East is (I still don't share your confidence about Boston, but regardless), this team's got a lot of issues (which I outlined in my post that will likely be ignored by all) that will keep it from being able to go toe to toe with the Chicagos and St. Louis of the league.
Also, when fully healthy, do you honestly believe Megna will play? Keep in mind he made his way into the lineup because of the spot open when Glass broke his hand. Glass and Adams are fixtures in the lineup. That's essentially 2 of the 6 bottom six spots taken up by players that likely wouldn't play regularly on any other team in the league.
bathroomSTAAL
The halcyon days
Yeah they can, but changes need to be made. They're small changes too, but it's unfortunately still unlikely they will happen.
JimmyTwoTimes
Registered User
- Apr 13, 2010
- 19,958
- 5,281
Of course we can. But it will have to be on talent alone. Fleury will have to play like he did back in 09 and our stars have to carry us.
Ugene Magic
EVIL LAUGH
1. The last time this place went Biblical was 2009 and we all know what happen then.
2. Nothing has been done yet or the TDL hasn't come yet.
3. There's simply too much time for things still can happen.
4. I have faith that the injured players will be back and the Pens will upgrade the team in some fashion.
Simply put, there's too much time to warrant this kind of worry, yet. If they were 4th/5th in the standings? Yes. I could see this kind of backlash.
Let the team get together healthy and see where they have their needs. Like 2/3 weeks.
2. Nothing has been done yet or the TDL hasn't come yet.
3. There's simply too much time for things still can happen.
4. I have faith that the injured players will be back and the Pens will upgrade the team in some fashion.
Simply put, there's too much time to warrant this kind of worry, yet. If they were 4th/5th in the standings? Yes. I could see this kind of backlash.
Let the team get together healthy and see where they have their needs. Like 2/3 weeks.
WayneSid9987
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2009
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Realistically:
They need 2 scoring lines going at full tilt which we don't have with a few missing pieces.
Could K-C-Bennett and Megna/JJ-M-N be that? Possibly.
Then we have a Vet D-core that looked capable last year but were very inconsistent. They got enough D in the Bruins series but those top 2 scoring lines disappeared.
Then you have goaltending.
Big question mark if Fleury can get the job done. Voukon stabilized the position last year.
Do i believe this team can win a Cup this year? Alot of things would have to go our way, so i'm going to say no. It would be a welcome surprise if they got to the SCF though.
Can this team still win a Cup? Absolutely. It has all it's star power locked up long term(and on the cheap) and the cap will rise pretty fast with the league and it's teams more secure financially.
They need 2 scoring lines going at full tilt which we don't have with a few missing pieces.
Could K-C-Bennett and Megna/JJ-M-N be that? Possibly.
Then we have a Vet D-core that looked capable last year but were very inconsistent. They got enough D in the Bruins series but those top 2 scoring lines disappeared.
Then you have goaltending.
Big question mark if Fleury can get the job done. Voukon stabilized the position last year.
Do i believe this team can win a Cup this year? Alot of things would have to go our way, so i'm going to say no. It would be a welcome surprise if they got to the SCF though.
Can this team still win a Cup? Absolutely. It has all it's star power locked up long term(and on the cheap) and the cap will rise pretty fast with the league and it's teams more secure financially.
Jaded-Fan
Registered User
I think that is more an argument for winning the cup within the next 5 years, rather than this year.
wgknestrick
Registered User
- Aug 14, 2012
- 5,889
- 2,709
I genuinely believe that with Bylsma behind the bench, and no big trades made, this team is not a legitimate Cup contender as is. I hope Sid, Geno and Neal prove me wrong, but that's how I feel. Bylsma's a buffoon, I don't think we're hard enough to play against (speed, and grit-wise) and I don't think we have enough scoring depth to compete with defensively competent teams.
Hopefully Shero gets to work over the next few months, because as it stands, I don't like our chances against the likes of Boston, Chicago, Anaheim, St. Louis, or LA.
Hopefully Shero gets to work over the next few months, because as it stands, I don't like our chances against the likes of Boston, Chicago, Anaheim, St. Louis, or LA.
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