Soviet MVP voting analysis (1968-1979)

[Triffy]

I wanted to know if international perfomance had impact on the MVP voting because I think that's very constitutive question when analysing the Soviet statistics and awards.

1968

Winner Firsov (CSKA) with 137 points
Runner-up Starshinov (Spartak) with 84 points.
3rd G Viktor Konovalenko (Torpedo Gorky) with 49 points.

Soviet league

Firsov
- Led the team, finished 2nd to Starshinov with 33 goals
- CSKA fnished 1st with 82 pts.
- 1st AST

Starshinov
- Led the league with 46 goals
- Spartak finished 2nd with 69 pts.
- 1st AST

Konovalenko
- Torpedo finished 7th
- 1st all-star team

International (Soviet gold)

Firsov
- 7 games 12+4=16 (1st)
- Best forward
- All-star team

Starshinov
- 7 games 6+6=12

Konovalenko
- Played 5 of the 7 games
- No personal honours

Even though Starshinov was dominant in the Soviet league, Firsov won the MVP award. It’s possible his international excellence was the reason for his victory (theory A). It’s also possible that the voters favored the player who led his team to national championship, as Firsov did by leading CSKA in scoring (theory B).
 
1969

Winner Firsov (CSKA) with 68 points
Runner-up G Viktor Zinger (Spartak) with 63 pts
3rd Starshinov (Spartak) with 56 pts
Leading scorer Yakushev (Spartak) isn’t in top 5

Soviet league

Firsov
- 5th in the league scoring, was behind team mates Kharlamov and Mikhailov
- CSKA finished 2nd
- 1st all-star team (over Kharlamov)

Zinger
- Spartak finished 1st
- 1st all-star team

Starshinov
- 2nd in league scoring
- Spartak finished 1st
- 1st all-star team over Petrov (6th in scoring race)

International (Soviet gold)

Firsov
- 10 10+4=14 (1st)
- All-star team

Zinger
- Played all the games
- No personal honours

Starshinov
- 10 6+1=7

This time the Soviet league scoring leader did not appear in top 5 in the MVP voting. It could be because Yakushev played only 6 games in the world championships and managed to score just 1+1=2 points. Firsov was the leading scorer of the WCH tournament and won the MVP voting again despite the fact that he wasn’t even the leading scorer of his club team CSKA. The theory A which highlights international perfomance looks better.
 
1970

Winner G Viktor Konovalenko (Gorky) with 124 points
Runner-up Maltsev (Dynamo) with 104 points
3rd Starshinov (Spartak) with 83 points
Leading scorer Petrov isn’t in top 5.

Soviet league

Konovalenko
- Gorky finished 7th
- 1st all-star team selection

Maltsev
- 9th in scoring, led his team
- Dynamo finished 5th
- 1st all-star team selection

Starshinov
- 4th in scoring, 2nd in own team’s scoring
- Spartak finished 2nd
- 1st all-star team selection

Firsov
- 5th in scoring
- CSKA finished 1st
- No all-star selection

International (Soviet gold)

Konovalenko
- Played 8 games
- All-star team selection, however Finnish goalie Urpo Ylönen was named the best goalie

Maltsev
- 10 15+6=21 (1st)
- Best forward
- All-star team selection

Starshinov
- 9 5+3=8

Just for comparison, Firsov had 6+10=16 points in 8 games, finished 3rd, received an all-star honour. Missed a game against Czechoslovakia (Source) and also against Poland.

In this year’s case, it looks Maltsev’s international excellence wasn’t enough. Maybe it’s because he finished just 9th in Soviet league scoring. Soviet league leader Petrov wasn’t a top 10 scorer in the world championships, which again explains his lack of MVP support. There seems to be a lot of evidence that suggests that success at the international circles outweighs national success (theory A). At least in Petrov’s and Yakushev’s case, when both failed to meet expectations in the WCH after having lead the national league in scoring. Starshinov has done well in both rinks and finished high in the votings. Now Firsov’s similar season wasn’t enough even for the top 5. Maybe it was because Maltsev outplayed him in the WCH. Or just personal grudge. Or politics.

1971

Winner Firsov (CSKA) with 134 points
2nd Vikulov (CSKA) with 70 points
3rd Maltsev (Dynamo) with 70 points
Soviet league
The theory B doesn’t seem to hold water, so I’ll leave the team’s finishes away.

Firsov
- Scored only 17 goals and wasn’t a top 5 scorer
- 2nd all-star team selection (behind Kharlamov who was 2nd in scoring)

Vikulov
- Scored 19 goals and wasn’t a top 5 scorer
- 1st all-star team selection (over Mikhailov who was 3rd in scoring, weird)

Maltsev
- Led the league in scoring
- 1st all-star team selection (over Petrov)

International (Soviet gold)

Firsov
- In his last WCH tournament, he scored 11+8=19 points in 10 games and was the leading scorer
- Best forward nomination

Vikulov
- 10 6+5=11
- All-star nomination

Maltsev
- 10 10+6=16 (3rd in scoring)
- All-star nomination

This year it was clear. Firsov’s dominant display in WCH helped him win the MVP. Both Kharlamov and Maltsev had great years both nationally and internationally but it wasn’t enough. It must be remembered, that at this stage, both Kharlamov and Maltsev were just starting their international careers and hadn’t earned the reputation Firsov had. Again international perfomance outweighs easily national league perfomance.

1972 (Both Olympic games and WCH)

Winner Maltsev (Dynamo) with 130 points
2nd Kharlamov (CSKA) with 130 points but less 1st votes
3rd Vikulov (CSKA) with 35 points

Soviet league

Maltsev
- Didn’t play a full season and did not finish in top 5 scoring (although he was close, 2 points away)
- 1st all-star team (over Firsov who played center between Kharlamov and Vikulov this seson (source)

Kharlamov
- Led the league in scoring
- 1st all-star team nomination

Vikulov
- 2nd in scoring
- 1st all-star team nomination (over Mikhailov, thanks to Kharlamov?)

International (Czechoslovakia gold)

Maltsev
- 10 10+12=22, leading scorer
- Best forward
- All-star

Kharlamov
- 9 8+6=14
- All-star
 
Vikulov
- 10 12+4=16
- All-star

It’s possible that the trio performed as a line (with Maltsev as a C) because as far as I know, Firsov did not play in the tournament and he played between Kharlamov and Vikulov during the Soviet league season. Again, WCH perfomance outweighs national league perfomance, as Maltsev who did not play a full season received more MVP support than Kharlamov who was the leading scorer in the Soviet league.

The fact that Czechoslovakia won gold doesn’t seem to change anything.

Another interesting fact: Kharlamov dominated in the olympic games and won the scoring race with 15 points. Nedomansky was 2nd with 9 points. This should have helped Kharlamov win the MVP but did not.

1973

Winner Kharlamov (CSKA) with 107 points
2nd Petrov (CSKA) with 104 points
3rd Tretiak (CSKA) with 40 points

As we all know, Tretiak was the number one goalie for both CSKA and the national team, I’ll leave him out of the comparison. Yeah, I'm getting lazy.

Soviet league

Kharlamov
- Wasn’t a top 5 scorer (due to games missed)
- 1st all-star team regardless

Petrov
- Led the league in scoring by 9 points
- 1st all-star team

International (Soviet gold)

Kharlamov
- 10 9+14=23 (3rd)
- All-star team

Petrov
- 10 18+16=34
- All-star team

Mikhailov finished 2nd and was named the best forward. Finished 4th in MVP voting.

This time it looks like despite the fact that Petrov outscored Kharlamov at both stages, Kharlamov grabbed the win (altough slightly). This could be seen as a sign for Kharlamov’s importance regarding the line’s success.

1974

Winner Tretiak (CSKA) with 113 points
2nd Mikhailov (CSKA) with 67 points
3rd Vasiliev (Dynamo) with 39 points
4th Maltsev (Dynamo) with 38 points

Again, I’ll exclude Tretiak as there’s little data to use and because I'm lazy.

Soviet league

Mikhailov
- Not a top 5 scorer
- All-star

Vasiliev
- Had a fairly good offensive season with 15 points in 31 games. Nothing spectacular
- All-star selection

Maltsev
- 2nd in scoring
- All-star (over Petrov)

Kharlamov outscored Mikhailov.

International (Soviet gold)

Mikhailov
- 10 8+8=16 (leading scorer)
- No all-star team selection (Martinec)

Vasiliev
- 10 0+6=6, similar numbers as before and after

Maltsev
- 10 6+4=10

Kharlamov 10 5+5=10.

The leading international scorer again does best in the MVP voting.
 
1975

Winner Tretiak with 107 points
2nd Kharlamov with 81 points
3rd Yakushev (Spartak) with 58 points

Also scoring leader Petrov and runner-up Mikhailov will be in the comparison.

Soviet league

Kharlamov
- Not a top 5 scorer (only 39 points compared to Petrov’s 53)
- All-star

Yakushev
- Not a top 5 scorer

Petrov
- Leading scorer
- All-star

Mikhailov
- Finished 2nd in scoring
- All-star

International (Soviet gold)

Kharlamov
- 9 10+6=16 (5th)
- No all-star selection

Yakushev
- 11+5=16 (4th)
- All-star selection (over Kharlamov)
- Best forward

Petrov
- 6+12=18 (2nd)
- All-star

Mikhailov
- 7+8=15 (8th)
- No all-star selection (Martinec)

Viktor Shalimov (Spartak) was the leading scorer with 19 points (11 goals). Wasn’t a top 5 Soviet league scorer.

Even if Shalimov led the tournament in scoring, he didn’t receive any personal honours and received little MVP support. Could be due to lack of reputation. Yakushev was the best forward and ranked 3rd in the MVP voting. Kharlamov was the best skater in MVP voting even though linemate Petrov outscored him again both in Soviet league and in WCH. Yakushev’s international success definitely was the reason for his 3rd place finish in MVP voting. Kharlamov’s success wil remain a mystery. Maybe he just stood out on the ice more than his linemates.

1976

Winner Tretiak with 139 points
2nd Kharlamov with 107 points
3rd Shalimov with 38 points
4th Maltsev with 28 points
5th Yakushev with 17 points

Soviet league

Kharlamov
- Not a top 5 scorer (outscored by linemates Petrov and Mikhailov, neither one was a top 5 scorer)
- All-star (center?)

Shalimov
- Leading scorer
- All-star (RW)

Maltsev
- 3rd in scoring

Yakushev
- 2nd in scoring after linemate Shalimov
- All-star (LW)

International (Czechoslovakia gold)

Kharlamov
- 10 4+10=14 (6th) (Best of Soviets)
- All-star

Shalimov
- 10 3+5=8 (not in top 10)

Maltsev
- Not a top 10 scorer

Yakushev
- Not a top 10 scorer

Olympics (Soviet Union gold)

Shadrin won the scoring with 10 points (goals). Maltsev, Shalimov and Kharlamov each had 10 points (5 goals). (the source is neither eurohockey.net or hockeyarchives.info. Could be the site seventieslord and Jekyll have advertised).

So Kharlamov had a pretty good international year after somewhat disappointing national season. Kharlamov was the best skater again in MVP voting. Notable correlation between international perfomance and MVP voting success.

1977

MVP winner Balderis (Riga) with 166 points
Runner up Petrov with 90 points
3rd Mikhailov and Tretiak with 73 points

Soviet league

Balderis
- Leading scorer
- All-star (LW, over Kharlamov)

Petrov
- 2nd in scoring
- All-star

Mikhailov
- 4th in scoring
- All-star
 
International (Soviet gold)

Balderis
- 6th in scoring
- All-star
- Best forward

Petrov
- Leading scorer
- All-star

Mikhailov
- 2nd in scoring
- No all-star nomination (Martinec)

The winner of best forward nomination won the MVP award by large margin. Looks like personal honours outweigh personal success in scoring.

1978

Winner Mikhailov with 128 points
2nd Tretiak with 110 points
3rd Fetisov with 61 points

Soviet league

Mikhailov
- 2nd in scoring
- all-star selection

Fetisov
- all-star selection

International (Soviet gold)

Mikhailov
- 9+3=12 (4th)

Maltsev outscored Mikhailov and received all-star honour. Maltsev missed games in Soviet league. Might explain his lack of success in the MVP voting (was 4th).

Fetisov
- all-star
- best defenseman

There’s no voting info available for 1979. Mikhailov won even though he was behind Petrov, Kharlamov and Makarov in WCH scoring.He was outscored by Petrov in Soviet league by 9 points. Doesn’t seem to make any sense. Explanation, again: Mikhailov was named the best forward and received an all-star honour in WCH.

It looks like the voters appreciated personal honours in international circles above everything else. Almost every year the player who was named the best forward was the leading skater among MVP candidates. Tretiak was named the best goalie in 1974, 1979 and 1984 but won the MVP award only in 1974, so it doesn’t explain his success.

CONCLUSION

After this research it’s clear that international success was taken into account when voting for the MVP award / player of the year award in Soviet Union. And not only was it taken into account, it played the biggest role in it. But, also Soviet league perfomance was considered (see 1978 Maltsev vs. Mikhailov).

Click to read more...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Thank You

Triffy,

Thank you for the excellent study. Three questions arise.

It seems that veteran players were favoured over newcomers or rookies. Did you get this impresssion and was there a distinct recognition of newcomers or rookies.

Defensemen did not receive much recognition. Was there a league or media effort to recognize defensemen?

At the club level was there some recognition either by the fans or media or the team of the best or most valuable player?

Do not see the need for a detailed study. Just answers, if possible, that may have sources in your previous research.

Thank you again.

 

[RabbinsDuck]

Great info!
International play obviously is heavily factored and it is interesting the voting seems even more forward-centric than the NHL.

This may help to raise the values of Tretiak and Fetisov.

 

[VMBM]

Bravo.

As far as the (1978)-79 season goes; Mikhailov was nearing the end of a glorious career (I kind of wish he had quit after that season!), and even though he wasn't statistically dominating vis-à-vis his fellow-players, he was still very good in the Soviet league play and in the 1979 World Championships (I remember Tikhonov calling Makarov the Soviets' best player in that tournament, though). And of course, there was the Challenge Cup where the Soviets for the 1st time beat the best NHL had to offer, and Mikhailov was definitely a key player in that series: 3 goals in 3 games (he was especially great in the 2nd game in my opinion). It's a bummer, however, that Petrov never got the MVP

I have to say that I may have been overrating Firsov. I mean, sure he was great in international tournaments, but now it seems that his MVP's came mostly because of those, and his Soviet league career truly was quite mediocre (for such a highly-regarded player). It is hard(er) for me to make a case for him, and I think he also had lesser competition than Kharlamov, Mikhailov, Petrov etc.

 

[Triffy]

It seems that veteran players were favoured over newcomers or rookies. Did you get this impresssion and was there a distinct recognition of newcomers or rookies.

The veteran players who had already proven their worth at the previous tournaments were probably slightly favoured over newcomers. For example, 1975 and Shalimov's excellent display at the WCH didn't help him at the MVP voting. Also 1971 and Kharlamov's lack of support despite a great season. So even Kharlamov got the same recognition at the start of his career.

Defensemen did not receive much recognition. Was there a league or media effort to recognize defensemen?

Just like for forwards, there were all-star selections for defensemen too both at the WCH and Soviet League. And the Best defenseman award was given each year in world championships. So the media did recognize defensemen as well (awards-wise).

But as the (Soviet) defensemen rarely scored many points, it's understandable that they received little MVP support. The best defenseman award winners from 1968 until 1979:

1968 Josef Horsovsky (TCH)
1969 Jan Suchy (TCH)
1970 Lennart Svedberg (SWE)
1971 Jan Suchy (TCH)
1972 Frantisek Pospisil (TCH)
1973 Valeri Vasilyev (URS)
1974 Lars-Erik Sjoberg (SWE)
1975 Pekka Marjamaki (FIN)
1976 Frantisek Pospisil (TCH)
1977 Valeri Vasilyev (URS)
1978 Vjatcheslav Fetisov (URS)
1979 Valeri Vasilyev (URS)

Source: http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php/ci_id/5051/la_id/1.htm

Most of the award winning defensemen are known for their offensive contributions rather than defensive excellence. It's likely that the Soviet system prevented defensemen from joinin the rush during the researched time frame.

In the late 50's Nikolai Sologubov was an offensive defenseman. Most significant Soviet defensemen after his time are more known for their defensive capabilities (Ragulin, Vasiliev) until again Fetisov in the late 70's.

At the club level was there some recognition either by the fans or media or the team of the best or most valuable player?

Do not see the need for a detailed study. Just answers, if possible, that may have sources in your previous research.

Thank you again.

The all-star selections from the Soviet league are the only ones now that it's clear that the "MVP" voting wasn't equal to the Hart trophy voting.

The all-star selections can be seen here. No voting info is available as far as I know.

 

[VMBM]

Bravo.

As far as the (1978)-79 season goes; Mikhailov was nearing the end of a glorious career (I kind of wish he had quit after that season!), and even though he wasn't statistically dominating vis-à-vis his fellow-players, he was still very good in the Soviet league play and in the 1979 World Championships (I remember Tikhonov calling Makarov the Soviets' best player in that tournament, though). And of course, there was the Challenge Cup where the Soviets for the 1st time beat the best NHL had to offer, and Mikhailov was definitely a key player in that series: 3 goals in 3 games (he was especially great in the 2nd game in my opinion). It's a bummer, however, that Petrov never got the MVP

I have to say that I may have been overrating Firsov. I mean, sure he was great in international tournaments, but now it seems that his MVP's came mostly because of those, and his Soviet league career truly was quite mediocre (for such a highly-regarded player). It is hard(er) for me to make a case for him, and I think he also had lesser competition than Kharlamov, Mikhailov, Petrov etc.

I just wanna add; to be fair, if they had given the MVP award before 1968, Firsov might have gotten it in 1966 and/or 1967, which were very good years for him in the Soviet league too.

 

[FissionFire]

If the voters valued international play over league play, it would seem likely that the players did as well. I know the general consensus is that the Soviets international accomplishments aren't viewed in a strong light but maybe this will change that. The international competitions were their Stanley Cup so maybe we should view dominant international performers as the equvalent to dominant SC playoff performers. This could be especialy relevent given the high value many people place on playoff performance versus regular season performance.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Bravo.

As far as the (1978)-79 season goes; Mikhailov was nearing the end of a glorious career (I kind of wish he had quit after that season!), and even though he wasn't statistically dominating vis-à-vis his fellow-players, he was still very good in the Soviet league play and in the 1979 World Championships (I remember Tikhonov calling Makarov the Soviets' best player in that tournament, though). And of course, there was the Challenge Cup where the Soviets for the 1st time beat the best NHL had to offer, and Mikhailov was definitely a key player in that series: 3 goals in 3 games (he was especially great in the 2nd game in my opinion). It's a bummer, however, that Petrov never got the MVP

I have to say that I may have been overrating Firsov. I mean, sure he was great in international tournaments, but now it seems that his MVP's came mostly because of those, and his Soviet league career truly was quite mediocre (for such a highly-regarded player). It is hard(er) for me to make a case for him, and I think he also had lesser competition than Kharlamov, Mikhailov, Petrov etc.

Errrr, His Soviet League career was not mediocre. The problem is, scoring data is inconsistent for the Soviet league. Assists and games were not tracked for all players(Even in the 70's). Firsov was the next best Soviet forward I ever saw after Kharlamov.

 

[Triffy]

If the voters valued international play over league play, it would seem likely that the players did as well. I know the general consensus is that the Soviets international accomplishments aren't viewed in a strong light but maybe this will change that. The international competitions were their Stanley Cup so maybe we should view dominant international performers as the equvalent to dominant SC playoff performers. This could be especialy relevent given the high value many people place on playoff performance versus regular season performance.

The competition level is still an issue. But yes, international performance should definitely be valued over national league perfomance.

 

[FissionFire]

The competition level is still an issue. But yes, international performance should definitely be valued over national league perfomance.

That is true in regards to raw numbers, but competition level isn't really a factor in seeing which players performed better on the team. If Kharlamov outplayed and outproduced his teammates regularly for example it might show he was more "clutch". You can also evaluate the Soviet league numbers for each player (where they are all performing against the same competition) versus the international numbers (where they are also performing against the same competition) to see which Soviets stepped up their games the most. Yes, the competition is definitely an argument against the raw numbers, but not really in the analysis of which Soviets stepped up play the most in their version of the SC playoffs.

 

[Triffy]

That is true in regards to raw numbers, but competition level isn't really a factor in seeing which players performed better on the team. If Kharlamov outplayed and outproduced his teammates regularly for example it might show he was more "clutch". You can also evaluate the Soviet league numbers for each player (where they are all performing against the same competition) versus the international numbers (where they are also performing against the same competition) to see which Soviets stepped up their games the most. Yes, the competition is definitely an argument against the raw numbers, but not really in the analysis of which Soviets stepped up play the most in their version of the SC playoffs.

It's still different from the SC playoffs because, for the Soviets, the competition level doesn't rise (on average) compared to the national league. In the NHL it does (rise), because the regular season eliminates the worst teams and only the best of the best qualify. In the world championships, it's not uncommon to see results like 13-1 in favor of the Soviets. How clutch is that?

The games against Czechs, Sweden and Canada might fit the description, though. Even Finland was pretty far away (depth-wise) from the top nations until the late 80's.

I understand your point, but when evaluating clutch play, the world championships can not be seen equal to the Stanley Cup playoffs because of the skill level difference between the participants. The right games should be picked. For example, form scoring leaders only from games between Czechs, Canadians, Swedes and Soviets. The skill level difference problem would be at least partially solved.

 

[VMBM]

Errrr, His Soviet League career was not mediocre. The problem is, scoring data is inconsistent for the Soviet league. Assists and games were not tracked for all players(Even in the 70's). Firsov was the next best Soviet forward I ever saw after Kharlamov.

Well, he surely seemed get beaten by Starshinov (not a shame of course), and seemed to fade quite soon after the arrival of the 'new generation' (the available data + all-star selections) even though still playing excellently in international tournaments. The data may be inconsistent, but maybe Firsov was a bit inconsistent too. And "mediocre" might have been a bad choice of words, but Eyyyy

Anyway, it is a bit - for want of a better word - disappointing that the international play seemed to play such a big role in the voting.

As for the bolded part, it is an opinion - no matter how educated one.

 

[Dark Shadows]

Well, he surely seemed get beaten by Starshinov (not a shame of course), and seemed to fade quite soon after the arrival of the 'new generation' (the available data + all-star selections) even though still playing excellently in international tournaments. The data may be inconsistent, but maybe Firsov was a bit inconsistent too. And "mediocre" might have been a bad choice of words, but Eyyyy

Anyway, it is a bit - for want of a better word - disappointing that the international play seemed to play such a big role in the voting.

As for the bolded part, it is an opinion - no matter how educated one.

The Data from Firsov's era is highly incomplete. Obviously Firsov did not register 40 goals with 0 assists in 65-66 given his passing game, yet many other Russians were credited with assists. The data also does not tell you how many games every player played.

Its highly likely given what I saw that he was, or should have been given credit for, many many assists, much like Kharlamov.

You can't simply look at it and say "Starchinov outscored him.", given it does not tell you how many games they played, nor does it record assists.

In 67-68, are we to assume Petrov outscored Firsov with his 21 goals and 19 assists for 40 points while assuming Firsov scored 33 goals and 0 assists for 33 points?

By contrast, the Czech league kept their statistics beautifully. The Russian league statistics are so fragmented before the 80's that you cannot take them at face value whatsoever.

Here. Ill attach an example of what we have to work with when Looking at Soviet statistics from the best, most complete source.

 

[Triffy]

Firsov managed to get his name on the post-season all-star teams "just" 5 times. Starshinov had 8 all-star nominations. I feel that Firsov's reputation is based mostly on his international success. Nothing wrong with that of course, but Starshinov seems to be the more accomplished Soviet league player (and one of the very best ever in that category). After his 7 consecutive 1st all-star team nominations at center, he was named an all-star on left wing (over Firsov) in 1970.

Of course it's possible that the all-star nominations were based largely on individual statistics that are available to us, which would nullify what I just said.

 

[VMBM]

The Data from Firsov's era is highly incomplete. Obviously Firsov did not register 40 goals with 0 assists in 65-66 given his passing game, yet many other Russians were credited with assists. The data also does not tell you how many games every player played.

Its highly likely given what I saw that he was, or should have been given credit for, many many assists, much like Kharlamov.

You can't simply look at it and say "Starchinov outscored him.", given it does not tell you how many games they played, nor does it record assists.

In 67-68, are we to assume Petrov outscored Firsov with his 21 goals and 19 assists for 40 points while assuming Firsov scored 33 goals and 0 assists for 33 points?

By contrast, the Czech league kept their statistics beautifully. The Russian league statistics are so fragmented before the 80's that you cannot take them at face value whatsoever.

Here. Ill attach an example of what we have to work with when Looking at Soviet statistics from the best, most complete source.

Well, all I can say is that my argument "Firsov is the best Soviet forward ever" took a slight hit when it now seems certain that performances in WC and Olympics were a big factor. I had a 'romanticized' picture in my head that Firsov ruled the Soviet league in the same way that he ruled WCs and Olympics (1966-1971), since he got those 3 MVPs even though it was first given as late as 1968. This isn't quite true, however, no matter how you slice it.

Sure, 5 all-star nominations isn't bad, and getting 40 and 41 goals in 1965-66 and 1966-67, respectively, is quite impressive. I mean, he could have gotten those 3 MVPs even if only the play in the Soviet league had counted, had they given the award earlier. But in the same breath it should be mentioned that Firsov didn't have the same level of competition as his younger colleagues a la Kharlamov, Maltsev, Mikhailov etc.

Summa summarum, I'm just slightly demorilized (bohoo).

EDIT: But if the inconsistent data really hurts especially Firsov, then it's a different case, of course. We'll never probably know.

 

[VMBM]

Just wondering... if the performances in international tournaments were so crucial, then why Sergei Shepelev wasn't even in the top 5 in MVP voting 1982? After all, he was the key Soviet forward in the 1981 Canada Cup (hat trick vs. Czechoslovakia in the semi-final, and of course, hat trick in the final vs. Canada). Not to mention that he centered the best Soviet line (Shalimov-Shepelev-Kapustin) of that 1981-82 season (that's right, KLM fans). Was it that Canada Cup wasn't very appreciated in the Soviet Union huh? Maybe the World Championships just meant a lot more to them, and Viktor Shalimov might have outperformed Shepelev there, and so Shalimov was 4th in MVP voting in 1982?

This of course doesn't change things, but it is something that made me wonder.

 

[Reks]

Just wondering... if the performances in international tournaments were so crucial, then why Sergei Shepelev wasn't even in the top 5 in MVP voting 1982? After all, he was the key Soviet forward in the 1981 Canada Cup (hat trick vs. Czechoslovakia in the semi-final, and of course, hat trick in the final vs. Canada). Not to mention that he centered the best Soviet line (Shalimov-Shepelev-Kapustin) of that 1981-82 season (that's right, KLM fans). Was it that Canada Cup wasn't very appreciated in the Soviet Union huh? Maybe the World Championships just meant a lot more to them, and Viktor Shalimov might have outperformed Shepelev there, and so Shalimov was 4th in MVP voting in 1982?

This of course doesn't change things, but it is something that made me wonder.

Here what I posted for another thread:
"As far as I know, in former Soviet Union Canada Cup wasn't considered as the most important tournament:
the Soviets didn't send their best for CC 1976, allowed Tretiak to retire right before CC 1984, etc.
Olympics and World Championships were the two that mattered the most for them.

However, I think the Summit Series and Challenge Cup fell in the same category as Olympics and World Championships for the Soviets since those were the special competions against Canada's best. But the Canada Cup for them was just another international tournament with a vague status."