(Son of) Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 1

[Sentinel]

Sometimes raw numbers are greater than %

Lemieux 160
Lafontaine 148

At first glance it doesn’t look too bad. Meh a 12 point art ross win. But then when you realize Lemieux played 24 less games you can realize that in no point in the games history was a forward besides Gretzky that dominant. % needs context greatly so

And the context is health. Healthy Howe >> Injured / sick Lemieux.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I have Howe 1st, Gordie was a complete player and played at a relatively high level as a 51 year old in the NHL We all know about Mario's health and his incredible comeback from a disease that Myself & Mario both shared, so that places a soft spot in my heart for him. Saying all of that, he couldn't stay healthy, played incredibly soft for a player at his size, and more matter how incredible he was offensively, that can't overcome his other shortcomings in my view.

I have Howe third, but I actually like to see him get some first place votes. So much to admire from that guy. One of my favorite dvd's is the forgotten 1974 WHA vs Soviet Union series. Gotta give the outgunned WHAers a lot of credit. Two things you notice from watching that is that the best player in the tournament was a 34 year-old Bobby Hull. The second best Canadian was a 46 year-old Gordie Howe. To see him score on Tretiak on a break away was my highlight of the entire dvd series.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Doing a recount. #2 and #3 are razor thin. 31/32 voters participated in Vote #1.

Also, do you all want the table breakdown or just the points list. The former tends to lead to suspicion and distrust while also indicating which players are most polarizing.

 

[VanIslander]

... the actual interesting part will be the new nominees for Round 2.

I grew up a Habs fan first of all, for several years of elementary school and through organized hockey... and I have never, ever cheered a Pens win and probably never shall... yet...

I hope two Penguins join two Habs already on our list. And a goaltender.

If not, ... ... I may think it wrong but I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[MXD]

Doing a recount. #2 and #3 are razor thin. 31/32 voters participated in Vote #1.

Also, do you all want the table breakdown or just the points list. The former tends to lead to suspicion and distrust while also indicating which players are most polarizing.

I think we always went for Table Breakdowns. First, it's more informative. Second, it's more transparent (... well, to a certain extent).

It would certainly be wrong to never show the breakdown the votes. Whether it's done at the end of the project or at the end of every round is up do you. I favor the "every round" option myself, unless some of us are going ballistic or something.

 

[MXD]

I grew up a Habs fan first of all, for several years of elementary school and through organized hockey... and I have never, ever cheered a Pens win and probably never shall... yet...

I hope two Penguins join two Habs already on our list. And a goaltender.

If not, ... ... I may think it wrong but I won't lose any sleep over it.

Only four new players, according to the breakdown posted by QPQ in the last Preliminary Thread.

 

[VanIslander]

... just the points list...

Gawd let us move on and keep this process on its toes not heels.

 

[VanIslander]

Only four new players, according to the breakdown posted by QPQ in the last Preliminary Thread.

Of course man. I've never suggested otherwise. At most I imply the identity of 3 of them.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

As a sidenote : I'd estimate that 75% of the posts of this round were related, directly or indirectly, to Mario Lemieux. I think it was, to a certain extent, justified : 4 players are making it, and Lemieux was amongst these 4 players... presumptively 4th. I get that.

A certain amount of that was an economy-of-effort exercise. Gretzky is presumptive #1, and needed no advocacy from me. The Howe vs. Orr argument was not likely be be fruitful, as Howe would bring his drum of longevity-ammunition to the duel, and it would all bounce harmlessly off of the anti-career-value armor-plating of Orr advocates.

Lemieux-Orr was the lock I had the most hope of picking, as I thought that Lemieux's near-miss in his prime could be bridged by the fact that he played nearly half-a-dozen more significant seasons than Orr. That effort fell short, as well.

But for the next rounds, it would probably be more interesting if 75% of the posts wouldn't focus on a player that a signficant part of us witnessed.

Yeah- I agree... but it's entirely possible that the new quartet will consist exclusively of players seen by the preponderance of the participants.

It would be interesting if there was only one (or zero) Bohemians in the upcoming quartet. I think that, like "Mike Farkas," I'd have some schadenfreude over the collective freak-out!

 

[MXD]

Of course man. I've never suggested otherwise. At most I imply the identity of 3 of them.

... Wow, I'm really bad at reading

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Doing a recount. #2 and #3 are razor thin. 31/32 voters participated in Vote #1.

Also, do you all want the table breakdown or just the points list. The former tends to lead to suspicion and distrust while also indicating which players are most polarizing.

Do the full breakdown.

The credibility of this project depends on full disclosure. Why wouldn't we want it?

Why are we discussing procedural changes here? Shouldn't that have been done already?

(Thank you for doing the hard work, by the way).

 

[VanIslander]

Do the full breakdown.

The credibility of this project depends on full disclosure. Why wouldn't we want it?

Why are we discussing procedural changes here? Shouldn't that have been done already?

Good points.

Then open a new thread for next 10 discussions and let this thread be reserved for the first inductees yapping and voting chitchat.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

As far as the identity and ranking of the top-4, it'll have all the suspense of a General Election for the Mayor of Chicago.

Doing a recount. #2 and #3 are razor thin. 31/32 voters participated in Vote #1.

Wow. Did I speak too soon?! Did Mr. Hockey get to #2??

And there's quoi's Marketing Genius again. Gives us all a reason to stay tuned!

 

[quoipourquoi]

Table is ready. I’ll post the new thread when I get out of a meeting.

 

[The Macho King]

Table is ready. I’ll post the new thread when I get out of a meeting.

You're not allowed to tease like that.

 

[VanIslander]

You're not allowed to tease like that.

Under his username it says he's a goaltender.

Typical: show the hole then take it away!

 

[quoipourquoi]

You're not allowed to tease like that.

The Walking Dead teased Rick Grimes for a month.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

...you have nothing to worry about!

Yeah. Nothing to worry about. Until the next time some modern is criticized for not going ballzout in selected f***ing immaterial bullshit regular-season games. Then maybe someone can post a horse's asshole cherry-picked video-clip and try to frame the G_d-damned piece of shit as somehow emblematic of the way the player plays.

But until then- yeah, no worries.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Doing a recount. #2 and #3 are razor thin. 31/32 voters participated in Vote #1.

That is really strong participation. Hopefully it continues for the later rounds.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Yeah. Nothing to worry about. Until the next time some modern is criticized for not going ballzout in selected ****ing immaterial bull**** regular-season games. Then maybe someone can post a horse's ******* cherry-picked video-clip and try to frame the G_d-damned piece of **** as somehow emblematic of the way the player plays.

But until then- yeah, no worries.

*Incoming controller disconnected gif*

 

[MXD]

We're not doing much so...

I'm predicting the new comers next round will be two Pre-War stars, one active NHL'er and a Pivo-drinking guy. But not that one.

 

[bobholly39]

We're not doing much so...

I'm predicting the new comers next round will be two Pre-War stars, one active NHL'er and a Pivo-drinking guy. But not that one.

I'm thinking Crosby, Jagr & Hasek all make it.

For the 4th one i could see it going a few different ways. My guess will be Plante

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I'm thinking Crosby, Jagr & Hasek all make it.

For sure. I'm guessing the 4th will be Mikita. I know that my next highest player after Crosby/Jagr/Hasek will definitely not be the 4th.

 

[The Macho King]

For sure. I'm guessing the 4th will be Mikita. I know that my next highest player after Crosby/Jagr/Hasek will definitely not be the 4th.

I had Ovi and Crosby pretty close I think.

It's so weird. I think ten, fifteen years from now the debate between the two is going to seem a lot closer than it has been for say the last 5 years.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

I'm predicting the new comers next round will be two Pre-War stars

One would be good, two might be better (in light of the potential alternatives).

one active NHL'er

Inevitable, I suppose.

and a Pivo-drinking guy. But not that one.

I'd be okay with a one-drink limit, as well.

Maybe another hyper-longevity guy comes onto the scene instead.

Edit- @ John Carlson- I'll prefer your listed 4th next, in the dark, over your prediction (as a player- not as a prognostication).