(Son of) Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 1

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by quoipourquoi, Nov 2, 2018.

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  1. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Procedure
    • You will be presented with 10+ players based on their ranking in the Round 1 aggregate list (10 players plus anyone with 99% of the voting points of the 10th ranked player)
    • Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias
    • You will submit ten names in a ranked order, #1 through #10, without ties via PM to quoipourquoi
    • Results of this vote will be posted after each voting cycle, but the individual ballots themselves will remain secret until the completion of this project
    • The top-4 players will be added to The List in Vote 1, while the top-5 players will be added to The List in subsequent voting cycles (#1-4 in Vote 1, #5-9 in Vote 2, #10-14 in Vote 3, #15-19 in Vote 4, #20-24 in Vote 5, #25-29 in Vote 6, #30-34 in Vote 7, #35-39 in Vote 8, #40-44 in Vote 9, #45-49 in Vote 10, #50-54 in Vote 11, #55-59 in Vote 12, #60-64 in Vote 13, #65-69 in Vote 14, #70-74 in Vote 15, #75-79 in Vote 16, #80-84 in Vote 17, #85-89 in Vote 18, #90-94 in Vote 19, #95-99 in Vote 20)
    • A 100th player will be added to The List in Vote 21 from an expanded group of 15 candidates

    Eligible Voters
    • Ballots from voters who have submitted an approved Round 1 ranking of 120 players (which was used to shape the aggregate list) will have their votes tabulated in the History of Hockey ranking
    • Art of Sedinery, Batis, BenchBrawl, blogofmike, bobholly39, Canadiens1958, ChiTownPhilly, DannyGallivan, Dennis Bonvie, Dr John Carlson, ehhedler, Hockey Outsider, Iceman, ImporterExporter, Johnny Engine, JoseTheodore2002, kruezer, Kyle McMahon, Mike Farkas, MXD, pappyline, quoipourquoi, ResilientBeast, Sentinel, seventieslord, steve141, ted1971, TheDevilMadeMe, TheGeneral, The Macho Man, tony d, VanIslander

    Guidelines
    • Respect each other. No horseplay or sophistry!
    • Stay on topic and don't get caught up in talking about non-eligible players
    • Participate, but retain an open mind throughout the discussion
    • Do not speculate who cast any particular ballot. Do not make judgments about the mindset of whoever cast that particular ballot. All individual ballots will be revealed at the end of the project.

    House Rules
    • Any attempts to derail a discussion thread with disrespect to old-time hockey will be met with frontier justice
    • We encourage interpositional discussion (forward vs. defenseman vs. goaltender) as opposed to the safer and somewhat redundant intrapositional debates. Overemphasizing a tired single-position argument like, I don’t know, Harvey/Lidstrom, will only be briefly tolerated before one is asked to move on to a less tedious comparison.
    • Take a drink when someone mentions the number of hockey registrations in a given era
    • Finish your drink when someone mentions that goaltenders cannot be compared to skaters

    The actual voting period will open up on Friday, November 2nd at midnight and continue through Sunday, November 4th at 8:59pm. Eastern time zone. I will release the results of the vote on Monday, November 5th.


    Vote 1 Candidates
    • Bobby Hull
    • Bobby Orr
    • Doug Harvey
    • Gordie Howe
    • Jean Beliveau
    • Mario Lemieux
    • Maurice Richard
    • Patrick Roy
    • Ray Bourque
    • Wayne Gretzky
     
  2. TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Ugh, I know why you made another thread, but won't it be difficult for future readers to follow this thing if what is supposed to be a very focused discussion is split between 2 threads?
     
    MXD and quoipourquoi like this.
  3. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    I'm curious if any participants changed their order based on the discussions we've had so far. Anyone?
     
  4. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Rules is rules. I checked them last night in anticipation of this. Plus we have three more days, so it probably wasn’t going to be close to borderline.
     
  5. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    I came thisclose to Lemieux over Orr. I watched some Orr videos last night and I just can’t do it.
     
  6. MXD Original #4

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    There is so much useless shit on the first thread...
     
  7. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    I’m going to put together a Cliff’s Notes version after the completion of the project.
     
  8. BenchBrawl joueur de hockey

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  9. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    I'd like to take this moment to thank you for all of the hard work you have put into this project, and for all the work that will be required to finish this thing off. And to do it with a sense of humour, you are a real gem.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. BenchBrawl joueur de hockey

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    Agreed, thank you QPQ
     
  11. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    Yeah, might as well. Nothing has convinced me to this point. The debate for #5 should be a good one though (and by extension, 6-10). I have Beliveau-Hull-Harvey, but it's extremely close. I don't see an argument for Richard or Bourque for #5, and though I had Patrick Roy at #10 on my initial list, I see an argument for him at #5, and I know a few people will be presenting it.
     
  12. BenchBrawl joueur de hockey

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    I was indirectly convinced to put Howe over Orr by Sturminator, which I did.

    TDMM almost convinced me to reconsider concerning Gretzky, but in the end I stuck to my guns.Still not sure I did the right thing.That's always the case when ranking the top trio.
     
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  13. Iceman Registered User

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    Wasn't the 1000 posts rule removed?
     
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  14. MXD Original #4

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    Removed. Then reinstated.
     
  15. Iceman Registered User

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    Zzzz
     
  16. ResilientBeast ATD Draft Czar

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    I moved Howe up to #2

    And the player I had as 5 was not illegible this round so some reshuffling was done outside of the top 4
     
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  17. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    Cool! I'm glad to hear that. The whole discussion period would be kind of useless if no one ever adjusted their lists based on the evidence presented.
     
    bobholly39 likes this.
  18. Dirt 101 Dirt, the famous Nevada railway cat

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    Bears repeating.
     
  19. Mike Farkas Grace Personified

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    I'm not going to vote until the last minute because I am going to continue to research until the last minute. I see no advantage in voting early unless you just weren't going to be convinced no matter what, in which case, blehhh...(or if you weren't going to be around at voting time, of course)...
     
  20. K Fleur Better Days

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    A lot of good shit too though. In prticular felt like I learned more about Orr’s PKing and Howe’s playoff resume than I knew a week ago.

    Also just in case anyone forgot, Mario Lemieux has x amount of trophies on his mantle.
     
  21. BenchBrawl joueur de hockey

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    Just not sure I'll be around.
     
  22. MXD Original #4

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    That's my point. Ideally, all the info is available on the same thread.
     
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  23. Dirt 101 Dirt, the famous Nevada railway cat

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    It IS voting time!! :)

    Voting began today and the deadline is Sunday evening at 9PM.

    So, if you have any plans this weekend, especially on Sunday, perhaps consider getting your vote in now. This process isn't going to be delayed, unless it expects to be still going next spring!
     
  24. overg Registered User

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    Last thread, from Canadiens1958

    Very interesting take which flips conventional thinking on its head. Better defense --> more ice time --> more scoring. It's a compelling theory, and I'll be interested to see which if any players this holds true for as this project wears on.

    Having said that, I cannot imagine this would have held true for either Gretzky or Lemieux. Both had large amounts of ice time (for forwards, at least) as it was. If anything, I'd expect their ice time to decrease if they improved defensively, if for no other reason than the extra work in the defensive zone would have required either shorter or more infrequent shifts.

    Still, I really like this sort of re-examining of traditional thinking, and hope you run with it when appropriate in later rounds. Or this round, if you think it's appropriate.
     
  25. blogofmike Registered User

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    Thst logic kind of takes Beliveau down a peg looking at his ES scoring.
     
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