(Son of) Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 1

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by quoipourquoi, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Continued from here: Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 1

    Procedure
    • You will be presented with 10+ players based on their ranking in the Round 1 aggregate list (10 players plus anyone with 99% of the voting points of the 10th ranked player)
    • Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias
    • You will submit ten names in a ranked order, #1 through #10, without ties via PM to quoipourquoi
    • Results of this vote will be posted after each voting cycle, but the individual ballots themselves will remain secret until the completion of this project
    • The top-4 players will be added to The List in Vote 1, while the top-5 players will be added to The List in subsequent voting cycles (#1-4 in Vote 1, #5-9 in Vote 2, #10-14 in Vote 3, #15-19 in Vote 4, #20-24 in Vote 5, #25-29 in Vote 6, #30-34 in Vote 7, #35-39 in Vote 8, #40-44 in Vote 9, #45-49 in Vote 10, #50-54 in Vote 11, #55-59 in Vote 12, #60-64 in Vote 13, #65-69 in Vote 14, #70-74 in Vote 15, #75-79 in Vote 16, #80-84 in Vote 17, #85-89 in Vote 18, #90-94 in Vote 19, #95-99 in Vote 20)
    • A 100th player will be added to The List in Vote 21 from an expanded group of 15 candidates

    Eligible Voters
    • Ballots from voters who have submitted an approved Round 1 ranking of 120 players (which was used to shape the aggregate list) will have their votes tabulated in the History of Hockey ranking
    • Art of Sedinery, Batis, BenchBrawl, blogofmike, bobholly39, Canadiens1958, ChiTownPhilly, DannyGallivan, Dennis Bonvie, Dr John Carlson, ehhedler, Hockey Outsider, Iceman, ImporterExporter, Johnny Engine, JoseTheodore2002, kruezer, Kyle McMahon, Mike Farkas, MXD, pappyline, quoipourquoi, ResilientBeast, Sentinel, seventieslord, steve141, ted1971, TheDevilMadeMe, TheGeneral, The Macho Man, tony d, VanIslander

    Guidelines
    • Respect each other. No horseplay or sophistry!
    • Stay on topic and don't get caught up in talking about non-eligible players
    • Participate, but retain an open mind throughout the discussion
    • Do not speculate who cast any particular ballot. Do not make judgments about the mindset of whoever cast that particular ballot. All individual ballots will be revealed at the end of the project.

    House Rules
    • Any attempts to derail a discussion thread with disrespect to old-time hockey will be met with frontier justice
    • We encourage interpositional discussion (forward vs. defenseman vs. goaltender) as opposed to the safer and somewhat redundant intrapositional debates. Overemphasizing a tired single-position argument like, I don’t know, Harvey/Lidstrom, will only be briefly tolerated before one is asked to move on to a less tedious comparison.
    • Take a drink when someone mentions the number of hockey registrations in a given era
    • Finish your drink when someone mentions that goaltenders cannot be compared to skaters

    The actual voting period will open up on Friday, November 2nd at midnight and continue through Sunday, November 4th at 8:59pm. Eastern time zone. I will release the results of the vote on Monday, November 5th.


    Vote 1 Candidates
    • Bobby Hull
    • Bobby Orr
    • Doug Harvey
    • Gordie Howe
    • Jean Beliveau
    • Mario Lemieux
    • Maurice Richard
    • Patrick Roy
    • Ray Bourque
    • Wayne Gretzky
     
    Last edited by moderator Theokritos: Mar 28, 2021
  2. TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Ugh, I know why you made another thread, but won't it be difficult for future readers to follow this thing if what is supposed to be a very focused discussion is split between 2 threads?
     
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  3. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    New thread. I’ll close this in 30 minutes in case anyone was in the middle of typing a post.
     
  4. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    Not that I think it matters, but I found it interesting. Wayne Gretzky played 22 playoffs games against the Oilers. He scored 7 goals, 19 assists for 26 points.
     
  5. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    I'm curious if any participants changed their order based on the discussions we've had so far. Anyone?
     
  6. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Rules is rules. I checked them last night in anticipation of this. Plus we have three more days, so it probably wasn’t going to be close to borderline.
     
  7. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    I came thisclose to Lemieux over Orr. I watched some Orr videos last night and I just can’t do it.
     
  8. blogofmike Registered User

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    A Gretzky team also beat a Messier Oilers team.

    An underdog Gretzky team has also beat a Montreal Canadiens team that was the best defensive team in the league. He played a lot against Larry Robinson (-9) and Serge Savard (-7).

    In all playoff series where Gretzky's underdog team played a team with a better record (and home-ice), his teams had a better series winning percentage (10-6) than Orr's teams in general (9-6).

    You don't say...

    In my case there was no cherry-picking. Orr's Big 4 peak is 1970-75. Those are all the games from Orr's best run that he missed. Ray Bourque was missed in a similar length of time to an extent that Orr was not.
     
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  9. MXD Original #4

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    There is so much useless shit on the first thread...
     
  10. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    I’m going to put together a Cliff’s Notes version after the completion of the project.
     
  11. zffssk On Break

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    Voted
     
  12. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    I'd like to take this moment to thank you for all of the hard work you have put into this project, and for all the work that will be required to finish this thing off. And to do it with a sense of humour, you are a real gem.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. zffssk On Break

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    Agreed, thank you QPQ
     
  14. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    Yeah, might as well. Nothing has convinced me to this point. The debate for #5 should be a good one though (and by extension, 6-10). I have Beliveau-Hull-Harvey, but it's extremely close. I don't see an argument for Richard or Bourque for #5, and though I had Patrick Roy at #10 on my initial list, I see an argument for him at #5, and I know a few people will be presenting it.
     
  15. zffssk On Break

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    I was indirectly convinced to put Howe over Orr by Sturminator, which I did.

    TDMM almost convinced me to reconsider concerning Gretzky, but in the end I stuck to my guns.Still not sure I did the right thing.That's always the case when ranking the top trio.
     
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  16. Iceman Registered User

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    Wasn't the 1000 posts rule removed?
     
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  17. BraveCanadian Registered User

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    This is a horrible argument. For example, who was it that knocked out that stacked Edmonton team (that could win the Cup without Gretzky) the year they lost Gretzky?

    You're also completely ignoring the return the Oilers got FOR Gretzky which factored pretty heavily into their 1990 win.. both financially and on the ice.
     
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  18. Dirt 101 Dirt, the famous Nevada railway cat

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    The 1980 Sports Illustrated article on Howe refers to him as the greatest player of all time.
     
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  19. quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Onward to Part 2 of Part 1 of Part 2!
     
  20. MXD Original #4

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    Removed. Then reinstated.
     
  21. Iceman Registered User

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    Zzzz
     
  22. ResilientBeast Resident PCHA Fanboy

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    I moved Howe up to #2

    And the player I had as 5 was not illegible this round so some reshuffling was done outside of the top 4
     
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  23. Captain Bowie Registered User

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    Cool! I'm glad to hear that. The whole discussion period would be kind of useless if no one ever adjusted their lists based on the evidence presented.
     
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  24. Dirt 101 Dirt, the famous Nevada railway cat

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    Bears repeating.
     
  25. Mike Farkas Grace Personified

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    I'm not going to vote until the last minute because I am going to continue to research until the last minute. I see no advantage in voting early unless you just weren't going to be convinced no matter what, in which case, blehhh...(or if you weren't going to be around at voting time, of course)...
     

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