Some Thoughts

[LastWordArmy]

My two cents... One, not flipping happy one bit. There is no need to have Zetterberg/Datsyuk on the same line. Datsyuk and Zetterberg can really produce magic but they also elevate other players game. We need them to elevate other guys on our team.

Franzen/Datsyuk/Tuzzi
FilPpula/Zetterberg/Brunner

These two lines give us two things...big size on the 1st line and provide some room for Datsyuk. The 2nd line has proper speed on the wings and Zetterberg/filps are properly responsible in their own end. You really don't lose anything here.

Cleary needs to play 4th line minutes and so does Abs.

Everyone else can move between 3rd and 4th lines.

 

[Run the Jewels]

1. Mule plays like he has mono. I have to believe he's getting bought out. There's no way they are going to keep him around if he's going to play like he did last night.

2. 14 shots on goal. Time to break up the Z and Pavs line. Here is what I have been pulling for: Nyquist-Pavs-Mule and Fil-Z-Brunner. Brunner and Fil led the team with 3 shots on goal each. New captain Hank Zetterberg put up 0 shots on goal. Same with Datsyuk. Many teams will not have the defensive play the Blues have but when you put them on the same line and they combine for 0 shots on goal that's a huge red flag.

3. They scored on 80% of their power plays. Most of the time it was a d-man letting the skater go in all alone on the goalie, something you rarely see at the NHL level. The thing is the Blues don't have the most skilled set of forwards in the league, not by a long shot. What are Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews, Marian Hossa, the Sedin sisters, etc going to do against this very bad defense? If Holland harbors any illusions about competing for a playoff spot he needs to bring in help sooner rather than later. Q got the most minutes and was flat out abused. I've never understood the thinking that he's a good defenseman. He fills the same role here he filled in LA and Col: a top 4 defenseman on a terrible hockey club.

4. Emmerton held his own reasonably well. I am not a fan but he played 10 mins and put a shot on goal. He was also 3 of 7 on faceoffs, not great but also not abysmal as he was to start the year last year.

5. Z had a really quiet game. He went 1 of 7 on faceoffs. Not what you'd like to see from your captain in his first game as the team leader.

6. I don't think you can do much with the defense. Perhaps you can bring up Lashoff and see what he's got. Other than that we don't have anyone NHL ready. With the forwards you need to break up Pavs and Z and hopefully that will get the offense going. Some were expecting us to win 5-4 type of shootouts. Well we've got the surrendering lots of goals part down, now we just need to start scoring a bunch ourselves.

 

[A1Portable]

This team needs to be rebuilt, and that process will take at least 2-3 years. Datzyuk is 35, so he will be too old by the time the Wings have rebuilt the team back into a contender. That means that in the best interests of BOTH the Wings and Datsyuk, the Wings should trade Datsyuk now for picks or some good young talent in order to expedite the rebuilding process.

This Wings team is not a contender. It's already too late for the combination of Datsyuk and Zetterburg to compete for another cup. The sooner the Wings recognize this and get on with rebuilding the team, the better.

 

[8snake]

Agree A1...this team isn't a move or two away. Only thing I disagree with is this being a 2-3 year rebuilding process...it will take even longer than that.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Holy **** what an overreaction after one game. Take it easy it was only one game.

Let's see how the first ten or so games go before blow the whole team, no?

It was abysmal performance, we got dominated, crushed. Basically everyone looked bad/medicore. Either like they were still on offseason mode or 'Europe hockey' mode.

Guys need to adjust, Babs needs to adjust.

It will be kind of interesting to see how Babs and Holland are going to handle this.

 

[last_sd]

Holy **** what an overreaction after one game. Take it easy it was only one game.

Let's see how the first ten or so games go before blow the whole team, no?

It was abysmal performance, we got dominated, crushed. Basically everyone looked bad/medicore. Either like they were still on offseason mode or 'Europe hockey' mode.

Guys need to adjust, Babs needs to adjust.

It will be kind of interesting to see how Babs and Holland are going to handle this.

The usual. Babcock asks for certain type of player, Holland goes and look for old used to be Red Wings player

 

[8snake]

IMO this is just a continuation of last season...Detroit's key players are a year older, the overall roster is a bit less talented and up-and-coming teams like the Blues continue to improve and mature. The players don't need to adjust, there's no new system to learn. The team is what it is, and slightly worse team than the mediocre team that did nothing last season. This is what a declining franchise looks like...Detroit fans have seen it with the Pistons and Tigers as well. This is the reality of T Detroit's situation right now.

 

[probertrules24]

Holy **** what an overreaction after one game. Take it easy it was only one game.

Let's see how the first ten or so games go before blow the whole team, no?

It was abysmal performance, we got dominated, crushed. Basically everyone looked bad/medicore. Either like they were still on offseason mode or 'Europe hockey' mode.

Guys need to adjust, Babs needs to adjust.

It will be kind of interesting to see how Babs and Holland are going to handle this.

I agree 100% with your comments. The Wings board is almost becoming unbearable with the sky is falling mentality. We have threads about how holland is overrated now let's trade Datsyuk for picks.

It was 1 game after missing half a season with zero exhibition games to adjust. Even the cup champs were outplayed badly. Should they be blowing up their team. I would almost encourage a couple losing years to get rid of the fair weather fans. Not saying anybody who questions the direction is one of them but its getting a little out of hand.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

You're getting older, Bobby, forgetting stuff.

Last person who said that to me got their ass kicked in a game of pickelball

 

[8snake]

First off, the team won't be blown up regardless of what Detroit's record is during the next 10, 20 or 40 games.Teams rarely get dramatically changed before the offseason. Second, saying this team is a borderline playoff team and clearly done as a contender for the next 4-5 years at least isn't being a "gfair-weather" fan. That's insulting to posters who have posting here for almost a decade or more and shared in the heartbreak and triumphs this team has had during that span. Ken Holland has the new challenge of turning a bad roster into a contending one, which is much different than maintaining a Cup contender. I don't know if he can do it, but the next few years will nbe interesting to say the least.

 

[Shoalzie]

The Wings forwards are still a solid group...injuries are quickly depleting them. The lack of Helm's speed and Bertuzzi's size was really obvious. The second line was terrible and I think last night showed that it's pointless to have Hank and Pavel together...put Brunner and Zetterberg on their own line.

I think this team can score goals but for matchup's sake...you can't put all your eggs in one basket because that second line won't do anything until Bertuzzi is back. Any team with a shutdown pair will key on the top line and the rest of the lineup won't contribute enough for you to win.

Without Helm/Bertuzzi/Mursak...Nyquist needs to be recalled:

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen
Brunner-Zetterberg-Samuelsson
Cleary-Abdelkader-Miller
Eaves-Emmerton-Tootoo

As for the defense...they were terrible. That was the worst game I've seen from a collective defense for this team in years. Howard was a sitting duck and didn't deserve that barrage. I don't know what you can do to make them better short of actual roster moves. I'd put Kindl in to see if he can do any better. That group as constructed will not get this team very far and Howard isn't good enough to win games on his own.

Kronwall-Ericsson
Quincey-Smith
White-Kindl

I'm not hitting the panic button because the Blues are really that good and it was just one game. The Wings aren't as bad as last night but the defense is a major concern. This team is going to have score goals to win games because I don't know how they're going to not give up 3-4 goals a night with that defense. Losing Stuart was inevitable and Nick was going to retire eventually but those holes in the lineup were clearly on display.

The coverage in the neutral zone and the defensive zone needs to drastically improve...too many huge gaps allowed easy passes and tons of possession. The Blues basically played keep away and it looked like the Wings were a little brother playing against big brother. I can deal with physical mismatch...the Wings have beaten physical teams in the past. What made them successful is their puck possession and smart defensive play. Wings' defenses of the past don't give up those stretch plays and are actually capable of getting the puck out of their own zone.

 

[wingfan]

St. Louis came out right away with the physicality, making the small ice even smaller for our top guys who were all playing in Europe. St. Louis roles 4 grind lines. We had no answer physically and everyone was off a step. No team has the depth to roll 4 checking lines like St. Louis does. Tarasenko can play, Calder candidate anyone?

 

[Laser Rayzor]

The Wings forwards are still a solid group...injuries are quickly depleting them. The lack of Helm's speed and Bertuzzi's size was really obvious. The second line was terrible and I think last night showed that it's pointless to have Hank and Pavel together...put Brunner and Zetterberg on their own line.

I think this team can score goals but for matchup's sake...you can't put all your eggs in one basket because that second line won't do anything until Bertuzzi is back. Any team with a shutdown pair will key on the top line and the rest of the lineup won't contribute enough for you to win.

Without Helm/Bertuzzi/Mursak...Nyquist needs to be recalled:

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen
Brunner-Zetterberg-Samuelsson
Cleary-Abdelkader-Miller
Eaves-Emmerton-Tootoo

Where's Filp?

 

[BF3]

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen
Brunner-Zetterberg-Samuelsson
Cleary-Abdelkader-Miller
Eaves-Emmerton-Tootoo

Where's Filp?

Flip for Sam, Sam for Miller, Miller for Eaves. Right?
That lineup would make the most sense pre-Helm returning with no Tatar or Bert. Bump Abby for Emmerton when Helm comes back.

 

[Shoalzie]

Where's Filp?

The bad loss was traumatic...

I'd take Emmerton out of the lineup, move Abdelkader on the 4th line and Flip on the 3rd line.

 

[Brick Top]

So I guess saying "The D is bad" is me trying to criticize only one player? It's called giving an example to prove a point. I don't have to go through every single player to do that.

You know who did play over Gus/Tatar? Cleary. Slow as hell Cleary. Cleary on the freaking PP. Holy hell. Come on. You don't think we could use a skilled player like Gus or Tatar on the PP?

Or let's talk about the PP. For the past 3 years it's been the same boring predictable crap. Pass the puck to the point, one time it, hope for screens/tips. Wow. That's surely going to keep working without Lidstrom/Homer. It wasn't even really working last year. Let's CHANGE IT UP. We have a Datsyuk and a Zetterberg. We can make a half-hearted attempted to be a tiny bit creative on the PP, but we haven't. It used to be very good. Go back to 2007-2009. Puck movement like crazy, nice crisp passes, good setups. Not the same crap that every team knows to expect from the Wings now.

Q has **never** been brilliant. Ever. I watched every single game he was in last year with the Wings, and the one scrimmage this year and one game this year. He was at best, passable. He was never brilliant. I've been saying how little faith I have in Q for months now. I've always placed Kindl ahead of him in terms of how much I trust them not to suck. Q makes me nervous every single damn time he goes near the puck. Last night just showed how right I was, as has basically every other game.

Do you know why this crap don't work no more?

Because we waited too long. Do you know why I want Gus/Tatar up even though they probably won't make a big difference? Well, let's point to our two best players, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Whenever they are interviewed about this, they say the same thing. "Being able to play, learn, develop under guys like Fedorov, Hull, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Larionov. I just improved so much because of that." They played with the best in the business and they learned a lot from it. They played with vets who had a lot to teach them. That's exactly what we should be doing with Gus/Tatar while we still have Datsyuk around. They need to play with elite NHL talent to play at an elite NHL level. Same with Smith. How much could Smith have learned from a whole year with Lidstrom?

Well, we'll never find out. And maybe we'll never find out with Gus/Tatar either. Point is, our great players had that opportunity and they turned out fantastically for it. Gus/Tatar/Smith, have not.

Great post all the way around. It's not fair to act like KQ was the only D-man who sucked last night, but he did look like a guy who had never played the defenseman position before- yikes. I don't think Kindl is any better though, after watching him in GR. I also think that Smith should have learned up Lidstrom last year, and Nyquist and Tatar should be up this season.

The D is going to be a problem all season, and possibly for years to come if Smith doesn't develop quickly and trades aren't made to bring in some impact players for the blueline. IMO, the biggest cause for that was KH waiting until this past off-season to look for a replacement for Lidstrom. Lidstrom was an older player who was clearly going to retire in the near future- it's not like he was a 32 year old who abruptly retired in the 2nd year of a 5 year deal. I feel that the Wings needed to aggressively pursue a top pairing guy prior to the last off-season (probably starting in the prior 2 off-seasons), as putting all of the eggs in the Suter basket was risky and clearly didn't work out.

More skill and especially speed last night would have been helpful. I don't buy the "protect the kids by not letting them play against big, bad St. Louis" routine either- there are plenty of smaller size skill guys succeeding in the NHL, including a fair amount of Wings, and Gus and Tatar have the played the NA game long enough to know to keep their head up.

They need to change the approach to the PP, b/c it is so stagnant and predictable by this time. Not to mention that none of our D are nearly as effective as Lidstrom was at getting point shots on goal. Hopefully Smith gets some PP time as that is the strength of his game right now, and we could use his skill.

 

[HIFE]

In a sick sense, I'm glad this happened. The guys had no preseason and came in thinking "we're the Red Wings!" and got destroyed.

Now they're thinking the way they should be, that they've got to work hard to grind out wins. It looked like Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Brunner thought they were still in Europe. They just got reminded that you have to work for your puck possession in the NHL and sometimes take hits to make plays.

The D is what it is. It's going to be pretty bad to mediocre all season long. The real story is the absolute lack of jump and tenacity from the forward group. That stuff doesn't come from being big or strong, but by caring a lot. The Wings didn't seem to care a lot in this game until it was too late.

Didn't see it coming at all (and slightly embarrassed). These 1st games are a descent measuring stick, at least to who shows up prepared as a team. I felt the same way: the Wings having such a ball practicing a getting back together, laughing it up, Z and Brunner tearing up the Swiss league, etc. What a rude awakening for Brunner. Datsyuk also seemed to approach say a battle in the corner like he would come out with the puck easily- but nothing is easy in the NHL. Z is gonna have to assert himself much more aggressively like we know he can. Makes me wonder if playing in Europe(or any lesser league) could result in forming bad habits.

I'm a little worried because the Wings forwards did try! Try as they might Blues steamrolled them every shift. I think the Wings got shocked and then discombobulated. I also saw some frustration set in by the 3rd. Instead of playing harder the boys are going to have to play smarter. Quicker movement, passes, be more deceptive/tricky.

IMO this is just a continuation of last season...Detroit's key players are a year older, the overall roster is a bit less talented and up-and-coming teams like the Blues continue to improve and mature. The players don't need to adjust, there's no new system to learn. The team is what it is, and slightly worse team than the mediocre team that did nothing last season. This is what a declining franchise looks like...Detroit fans have seen it with the Pistons and Tigers as well. This is the reality of T Detroit's situation right now.

I feel you but as a fan I have a bit more positive outlook. The team is what it is but they will have to fight as a team and learn. I won't watch less games than last season because I like everyone on the team. We are going to adapt quickly and as usual be innovators of new methods to win. I promise you we will get some wins!

Last person who said that to me got their ass kicked in a game of pickelball

LOL! Thanks for the comedic relief. Too bad JMan is missing out on your humor...

 

[A1Portable]

Tootoo on the top line and Quincey on the first pair?
No thanks.

I agree. It's because these are the options available to the Wings that this team is not a contender and must undergo a very substantial rebuild.

 

[SoupNazi]

Datzyuk is 35

Pavel was born July 20, 1978. That means he won't be 35 until AFTER this season.

 

[sepster]

This teams ceiling is a 1st round loss, if things go their way. If not, they're not making the playoffs. I make that proclamation not based on this one game, but on the direction of this team over the past 2 seasons. Last night's game was about as close to a continuation of their playoff round against Nashville as you could get. Too slow, too small, too soft. They got dominated in every part of the game just as they did against Nashville.

And you know what? That's not what gets me upset, I understand the cyclical nature of sports, things go up, things go down, the Wings are not immune to that cycle.

What does piss me off to no end is the garbage that Cleary and others like him pulled at the end of the game. The team is down 6 to nothing, under 10 minutes left and you've got Barret Jackman punching you in the back of the head and you do what? Stand up, look at the ref and almost start crying. That is completely unacceptable. Completely embarrassing. This team needs to grow a spine and grow one quickly. One, because players from Howe and Lindsay to Probert, Kocur and Gallant to McCarty, Lapointe and Shanahan would and should be completely disgusted with the way this team rolls over when physically confronted. And two, because if they don't toughen up, players are going to continue to get carted off the rink because every single team in this league, and especially Central teams, are sick and tired of the Wings and are going to take every advantage of every opportunity to embarass and beat them down. I'm not saying Cleary and Franzen and Miller and those guys need to be bruisers, they're not and won't ever be, but *******, stand up for yourself. Don't take getting punched in the head in a blowout and not push back.

I have no problem with the Wings entering whatever type of rebuild phase they are going to be forced into, but I will not accept them not standing up for themselves. That was the biggest joke of last night's game. Cleary should have the Winged Wheel ripped off his chest and escorted to the nearest bus stop. Absolute joke.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Watching the Nucks right now and even them, back-to-back presidents trophies, have young guys like Kassian and Tanev playing roles. And St. Louis plays two rookies. And New York plays Stepan, Hagelin, Kreider and McDonagh. And so-on and so-on.

The best teams in the league have young players playing significant roles on their respective team. Maybe things have changed and Holland needs to start imitating other teams.

 

[A1Portable]

Pavel was born July 20, 1978. That means he won't be 35 until AFTER this season.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Watching the Nucks right now and even them, back-to-back presidents trophies, have young guys like Kassian and Tanev playing roles. And St. Louis plays two rookies. And New York plays Stepan, Hagelin, Kreider and McDonagh. And so-on and so-on.

The best teams in the league have young players playing significant roles on their respective team. Maybe things have changed and Holland needs to start imitating other teams.

Holland doesnt do change, trades, buyouts, or plays his prospects before the age of 45.

 

[HTT3*]

Holland doesnt do change, trades, buyouts, or plays his prospects before the age of 45.

How old is Brendan Smith?

 

[RedWingsNow*]

How old is Brendan Smith?

3 weeks shy of 24 I think