Some Thoughts

[RedWingsNow*]

UGLY... for sure

But the team really can't be as bad as they looked, for the most part.
* Z, Datsyuk and Brunner were playing like they were in Europe. Z & D looked OK early but then they were down 2-0 and the penalty parade started..
Brunner is not yet ready for the NHL. His cutesy moves will not work unless he's going at high speed. Probably at Babcock's urging, he was too willing to take low percentage shots on goal.
*Flip-Franzen looked better in the third period. But the line was useless when it was close.
* Mursak. Bad penalty? Sure. Cheap call. But you can't get your stick in there. He's hurt. He might go on IR and that may prolong his tenure with the Red Wings by a few weeks. Too bad. I liked his first too shifts, but Babcock hasn't shown much patience with him. I don't imagine he will tonight.
* Abdelkader is average as a 4th line center. As a third line center, he sucks.
* Cleary was brutal. Skating at Homer like speed.
* Tootoo... he tried to run some guys....Good.
* QUincey and Smith -- Brutal.

But there are some easy ways to get back to respectable.

Even if Kindl is out, you have to switch up your D pairings.

Kronwall Quincey -- KQ sucks too much to babysite a rookie.
Ericsson Smith -- Ericsson's stay at home game might help Smith.
CC White -- Bleh. White is too small. CC and Kindl will battle for that job.

At forward... assuming Mursak is out...and Nyquist is called up

Nyquist Datsyuk Tootoo
Franzen Zetterbeg Brunner
Cleary Flip Sammy
Miller Abdelkder Eaves

We can't run two lines with crappy centers with the kind of BS defense we have.

In the meantime, we need to trade for a legit Righthanded defenseman, ASAP

Click to read more...

 

[Frk It]

Tootoo on the top line and Quincey on the first pair?
No thanks.

 

[XO]

..so the Bogosian hunt is on

 

[Frk It]

Some of my thoughts after watching this game...

-How far have we fallen that Justin Abdelkader is the center on one of our powerplay units? The guy has about as much offensive ability as Cleary has speed left.
-Defense was brutal. Obviously. Quincy should be relegated to bottom pair after that game. I'd try something like:

Kronwall-White
Smith-Ericsson
CC-Kindl/Quincey (play as little mins as possible)

-Entire team got bullied. Really disappointed Franzen wouldn't fight after Cleary was getting harassed in the crease, I mean he has no balls, but the guy is a big dude, c'mon.
-Expected more from the Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Brunner line, really just couldn't do anything all game.
-2nd line was ok. 3rd line was terrible, abdelkader needs to be a wing, and should only play a 4th line role and 4th line mins at even strength.
-Cleary looked painfully slow, I think his body is pretty much done.

Things can only get better from here, hopefully Babcock can fix the defense the best he can, and get the most out of what we have.

 

[detredWINgs]

Honestly, this team has the ability to be middle-of-the-road good, but its too one-dimensional up front that no line combo is going to be the magic fix. On the back end, things are brutal. We have a statistical #1 defenseman in Kronwall (when compared to the number of #1 defenseman in the league), a few #4 defensemen, and a few #7 defensemen. What's worse is the #7 defensemen we have are not stay-at-homers who excel in a limited role as PKers, but defensemen who are bottom-pairing players because they are mediocre in every category across the board. That's not getting us anywhere, no matter how you slice it.

Gustavsson looked fine, and Howard is good enough, but its chaos in every other department.

The only thing that really makes sense right now is benching the veterans that don't factor into our future, making the talented veterans take on serious mentorship roles, and giving unabashed confidence to players like Brunner, Abdelkader, Smith, Kindl, Nyquist, Tatar, and anyone else who needs a long, consistent stretch of NHL experience under their belt to see what their made off.

Instead of losing games while watching known commodities play mediocre hockey with little chance of improvement, we should lose games watching guys like Brunner and Smith make rookie mistakes while learning the NHL ropes in the process. Anything else will simply hinder and/or prolong the rebuilding process.

 

[Chillwavin]

Obviously was an awful game today. I'm not going to put too much stock in this game though.. I couldn't think of a worse team/place to start the season. Will be interesting to see how we look in the rematch on 02/01.

Datsyuk and Z need to be split up. We're not deep enough to put them together.

 

[Vladdy84]

Obviously was an awful game today. I'm not going to put too much stock in this game though.. I couldn't think of a worse team/place to start the season. Will be interesting to see how we look in the rematch on 02/01.

Datsyuk and Z need to be split up. We're not deep enough to put them together.

Dats and Z need to be broken up. It hasn't worked in a while. Spread it out. Really need Helm back.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Worth noting --
Zetterberg and Datsyuk were not minus players.
Sammy/Flip each -2

Other stats:
Kronwall-Z-Datsyuk = 0 shots on goal.

Awful as KQ was he led the entire ****ing team in icetime.
Datsyuk wins 10 of 12 faceoffs. Zetterbeg 1 of 7
Abs 9 of 13. Flip 7 of 17

Damien Brunner played 18:50...

 

[ScottyBowman]

I think Brunner needs to be sent to the AHL and go from there. The Swiss league is a big joke. Dominating that league is like me dominating a 9 year old in basketball.

 

[redwings85]

I really thought Franzen was by far the worst... He couldn't stay on his feet, everytime I saw him he was laying down on the ice.

Rust is obviously in there. Wings looking like typical wings of last year, playing with no heart an grit... Something needs to light a fire under their *****. Hopefully a better game in CBJ Monday, and home opener Tuesday.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I think we split up Z & Datsyuk, there time together is over and we need both of them to carry a line. I say we keep Franzen & Filppula together as they played decently well, put Z in between those guys. I think we then bring Nyquist, either Nyquist or Brunner play with Datsyuk, the other moves down to the 3rd line.

So hopefully we would roll with a lineup looking like this:

Nyquist-Datsyuk-Sammy
Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen
Miller-Helm-Brunner
Cleary-Abdelkader-Tootoo

Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-White
KQ-CC

Howard
Gustavsson

Then if it still isn't working I say **** it & blow it up!

 

[Spitfire11]

I wish they signed John Scott. He'd be a more entertaining version of Quincey...with better reach.

 

[MVPete96]

Lol at tootoo on line 1

 

[sully6one]

After watching this game, I think it's definitely time to get big players that use that size. I'm hoping Holland and Co. are looking at guys in FA like, Getzlaf, Scuderi, Murray, etc. Especially on defense. I can not believe the weakness we are on defense. Smith and Ericsson are the only ones who have some strength. I hope Smith, Ericsson and Kronwall are the only three we keep next season, not likely, but it'd be nice. Add Murray and Scuderi and then some right handed puck moving guy who can play on the PP. Then hopefully we can land a big top 6 forward in the off season. I'm open to trading any player except the following (unless a can't turn down type deal), Nyquist, Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Ferraro, Sproul, Ouellet, Mrazek, and Anthansiou. Obviously our main prospect, but they all have something that I like. Nyquist & Jarnkrok top end potential talent. Ferraro & Anthansiou top end speed. Mrazek because he's our only real good goalie prospect. And Sproul because I feel he's going to be a #2 defensemen in a couple years. Ouellet because he's just solid all around. Sheahan because he's 6'2"+ 210lbs+.

 

[detredWINgs]

I think Brunner needs to be sent to the AHL and go from there. The Swiss league is a big joke. Dominating that league is like me dominating a 9 year old in basketball.

Normally I'd agree, but in this case, I don't see the point. First, sending down Brunner just means someone like Eaves, Miller, or Emmerton takes his spot - not Nyquist or Tatar. Second, replacing Brunner simply means less skill, without anyone faster or more physical to replace him. Third, he's slated for a top 6 role - not a bottom 6 role. The AHL helps the transition to a depth NHL role, but not for a top 6 role. In his case, Brunner needs to get used to not just playing against NHL talent, but also playing with it. He'll learn to deal with the pace of North American hockey in either league, but he'll only learn how to fend off the likes of Barrett Jackman and take a pass from a linemate like Henrik Zetterberg in one.

 

[Marky9er]

Could we put together a good enough package to get the Florida Panthers a Cup?

Yeah...that was my thought. Sorry.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

I don't see how you can make a fair adjustment about Brunner in his first game where the entire team played their worst hockey in years. I'd give him a few more games, at least he shoots the puck. But I will say he looked very tentative around the boards and tried to be a little too fancy. You can tell he's a smart player though.

We have all these slow skaters who aren't even physical. They're just... well... I'm not sure how to describe them. They don't have an identity and I don't really understand how they are going to thrive in a puck possession system. I say the hell with it and bring up Nyquist and Tatar because I can almost guarantee they're going to bring a lot more to the table than what these skating corpses are at the moment.

I really don't get what Babcock is thinking either. Not shuffling his horrible ES lines the entire game, putting Colaiacovo on the PP over Smith while putting Smith on the PK, pairing Ericsson with Kronwall instead of Smith, and worst of all giving Quincey the most IT of any player. I honestly think Babcock is losing it and I wouldn't be surprised, if this season goes downhill, to see Babcock let to and Renney getting the job (won't happen though because of KH).

Here's what I'd like to see:

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Franzen
Filppula - Zetterberg - Brunner
Tatar - Helm - Samuelsson
Bertuzzi - Abdelkader - Tootoo

Kronwall - White
Smith - Ericsson
Quincey - Colaiacovo

On a side note, this team not only sucks but aside from two or three players they're really a bore to watch.

 

[Chillwavin]

Just to give everyone some perspective, a lot of good teams got blown out today...

Chi beat LA 5-2
TB beat Wsh 6-3
FLA beat Car 5-1
Ana up 6-2 against Van now

Seems to me like things are shaking out like they should in a season with an extended layoff and shortened training camp.

Not to say we didn't get manhandled. But if there was a game to give the team a pass...

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Lol at tootoo on line 1

Tootoo is there to skate, hit and crash the net

 

[Actual Thought*]

I don't see how you can make a fair adjustment about Brunner in his first game where the entire team played their worst hockey in years. I'd give him a few more games, at least he shoots the puck. But I will say he looked very tentative around the boards and tried to be a little too fancy. You can tell he's a smart player though.

We have all these slow skaters who aren't even physical. They're just... well... I'm not sure how to describe them. They don't have an identity and I don't really understand how they are going to thrive in a puck possession system. I say the hell with it and bring up Nyquist and Tatar because I can almost guarantee they're going to bring a lot more to the table than what these skating corpses are at the moment.

I really don't get what Babcock is thinking either. Not shuffling his horrible ES lines the entire game, putting Colaiacovo on the PP over Smith while putting Smith on the PK, pairing Ericsson with Kronwall instead of Smith, and worst of all giving Quincey the most IT of any player. I honestly think Babcock is losing it and I wouldn't be surprised, if this season goes downhill, to see Babcock let to and Renney getting the job (won't happen though because of KH).

Here's what I'd like to see:

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Franzen
Filppula - Zetterberg - Brunner
Tatar - Helm - Samuelsson
Bertuzzi - Abdelkader - Tootoo

Kronwall - White
Smith - Ericsson
Quincey - Colaiacovo

On a side note, this team not only sucks but aside from two or three players they're really a bore to watch.

The roster sucks. Losing Babs is the last thing this franchise needs.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I don't see how you can make a fair adjustment about Brunner in his first game where the entire team played their worst hockey in years. I'd give him a few more games, at least he shoots the puck. But I will say he looked very tentative around the boards and tried to be a little too fancy. You can tell he's a smart player though.

We have all these slow skaters who aren't even physical. They're just... well... I'm not sure how to describe them. They don't have an identity and I don't really understand how they are going to thrive in a puck possession system. I say the hell with it and bring up Nyquist and Tatar because I can almost guarantee they're going to bring a lot more to the table than what these skating corpses are at the moment.

I really don't get what Babcock is thinking either. Not shuffling his horrible ES lines the entire game, putting Colaiacovo on the PP over Smith while putting Smith on the PK, pairing Ericsson with Kronwall instead of Smith, and worst of all giving Quincey the most IT of any player. I honestly think Babcock is losing it and I wouldn't be surprised, if this season goes downhill, to see Babcock let to and Renney getting the job (won't happen though because of KH).

Here's what I'd like to see:

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Franzen
Filppula - Zetterberg - Brunner
Tatar - Helm - Samuelsson
Bertuzzi - Abdelkader - Tootoo

Kronwall - White
Smith - Ericsson
Quincey - Colaiacovo

On a side note, this team not only sucks but aside from two or three players they're really a bore to watch.

That's a lineup I could get behind. Maybe trade Miller+late pick for a 3rd pairing PK/Defensive Specialist. I know Devil fans were okay with a Miller+3rd/4th for Tallinder trade. I think that's what we are really missing is that guy who just plays Defence, he can make a good first pass but his #1 role is to play defence.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

The roster sucks. Losing Babs is the last thing this franchise needs.

I'm not saying I want it to happen, it's just theoretical at this point. He himself said the players weren't responding like they used to last year.

That's a lineup I could get behind. Maybe trade Miller+late pick for a 3rd pairing PK/Defensive Specialist. I know Devil fans were okay with a Miller+3rd/4th for Tallinder trade. I think that's what we are really missing is that guy who just plays Defence, he can make a good first pass but his #1 role is to play defence.

Whatever needs to be done. I just want the kids playing because, say what you want, but Gus and Tats are better than many of the players on our current roster. I also wouldn't mind Kindl over Colaiacovo because he looks completely lost and doesn't really have a role on the team.

This team has no identity. We've got a few good puck-possession forwards then a bunch of slow mediocre 35+ veterans who don't do anything good, they are just completely mediocre.

 

[HTT3*]

This team played like there were a ton of new players trying to learn the system and gel... oh wait!

Kenny Holland should have started training camp in Traverse City back in September, DAMN YOU KENNY!!! Oh wait...

Kenny Holland should sign players that don't need to gel with a new team... Oh wait!

This game was a loss regardless who was on the team, we could have had Suter, Parise, Lidstrom, Helm and Hossa... and we were still losing.

When you inject so much new talent, teams need time to gel. The hope is they gel before it is too late.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

That's a lineup I could get behind. Maybe trade Miller+late pick for a 3rd pairing PK/Defensive Specialist. I know Devil fans were okay with a Miller+3rd/4th for Tallinder trade. I think that's what we are really missing is that guy who just plays Defence, he can make a good first pass but his #1 role is to play defence.

Except it won't happen

 

[RedWingsNow*]

When you inject so much new talent, teams need time to gel. The hope is they gel before it is too late.

I don't think you're using that word right