Solving the Tanking issue

[Menzinger]

Management doesn't do it either. It's simply not in their blood.

Keeping Brown & Nylander in the AHL isn't in an effort to lose games, it's in an effort to keep them away from the toxic environment that is the NHL team. It's an eye towards long term development, not "this is how we'll lose more games".

I don't know how you could look at the Leafs roster and say it hasn't been put together to lose games.

I've got no issue with keeping Nylander in the AHL for the rest of the season - saves his ELC until next season, but he's definitely ready in terms of playing ability. If management wanted to win more hockey games this year they could inject skilled players anytime they want - they're choosing not to.

 

[deletethis]

How about giving the team that finishes last overall no more than a 20% chance of claiming the 1st overall pick and a higher chance of claiming the 4th overall pick?

 

[sxvnert]

I don't know how you could look at the Leafs roster and say it hasn't been put together to lose games.

Because people realize what hypocrites they are when condemn tanking (icing inferior rosters) but cheering for the players who are a direct result from those losses.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

How about giving the team that finishes last overall no more than a 20% chance of claiming the 1st overall pick and a higher chance of claiming the 4th overall pick?

Sucks.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Have a lottery where every non-playoff team has 1 ball. Draw the order. Each non-playoff has equal chance. This makes any position after a playoff spot irrelevant and everyone tries to win.

While I agree that sounds like the best solution, do you really want to give the Oilers another chance at the 1st overall pick? Unless there is a rule where if you win the lottery that means the next year you can not have a chance at the 1st overall pick.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The entire tanking issue can be solved with one simple step.

Non playoff teams get one ball. Percentages eliminated. The entire top fourteen is a lottery.

Tanking eliminated.

Would create a ghetto for bad teams like Toronto .... and they may never get out.
Terrible.

 

[Woodman19]

Eh who cares, Edmonton already ruined it for everyone.

 

[TankNationTillDeath]

Could you eliminate tanking by forcing ticket prices to be a function of win/loss? Or providing large financial incentives to coaches/management on win/loss?

 

[Pookie]

To "solve" the issue you simply remove the reward for losing.

Every team, playoff qualifier or not, gets a 1/30 chance at the 1st overall pick.

Essentially, draw for the draft order every year.

The only reward for losing constantly? Declining attendance (except in Toronto where they have sold Personal Seat Licenses) and ratings.

 

[Woodman19]

The system of rewarding the worst team has been used for as long as I remember, why is it even an issue now that we are the team that is "tanking" ? Nothing to fix IMO.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Equal weight for all non-playoff teams.

1 in 14 shot at picking anywhere from 1 to 14.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't know how you could look at the Leafs roster and say it hasn't been put together to lose games.

I've got no issue with keeping Nylander in the AHL for the rest of the season - saves his ELC until next season, but he's definitely ready in terms of playing ability. If management wanted to win more hockey games this year they could inject skilled players anytime they want - they're choosing not to.

It's been put together to win games, to the best of the team's ability, while placing the priority on the future. In the case of the current roster, I think they have more money on the LTIR than they do on the ice right now. Literally, their 5 most expensive forwards (excluding Horton) were injured last night.

As I mentioned with Nylander, it's not about putting in a inferior player so the Leafs lose more games. It's about putting a player you care less about in a toxic environment, knowing how important Nylander is to the Leafs long term success.

Like I asked earlier in the thread. Point to a single management decision that you believe was made with the intention of losing more games. If you can't, the tanking argument goes out the window.

 

[pooleboy]

I don't think it's a major concern here.

What I would like to see implemented however is you can only have a certain number of picks. Eg:
Can only have 1 1st overall within a 5 year span.
Can only have 2 top 3 picks in a 5 year span
You can only have 3 top 5 picks etc.

Once you reach those variables the highest pick you can have is outside the top 5 picks. Something along those lines so it's not the same teams being in the top 3 year after year

 

[Bullseye]

Eliminate tanking by eliminating the Salary Cap.

How is what the Leafs are doing this year helping the NHL? The most stable NHL franchise has been terrible since the cap era started. Now they are an embarrassment because it's the only real route the NHL allows for teams to acquire big name talent - tank and draft.

Our biggest F/A signings have been Jason Blake, Jeff Finger, Mike Komisarek, David Clarkson.

If Stamos actually signs here then I take it back.

 

[ACC1224]

Eliminate tanking by eliminating the Salary Cap.

How is what the Leafs are doing this year helping the NHL? The most stable NHL franchise has been terrible since the cap era started. Now they are an embarrassment because it's the only real route the NHL allows for teams to acquire big name talent - tank and draft.

Our biggest F/A signings have been Jason Blake, Jeff Finger, Mike Komisarek, David Clarkson.

If Stamos actually signs here then I take it back.

Worse thing that ever happened to hockey.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I don't know how you could look at the Leafs roster and say it hasn't been put together to lose games.

I've got no issue with keeping Nylander in the AHL for the rest of the season - saves his ELC until next season, but he's definitely ready in terms of playing ability. If management wanted to win more hockey games this year they could inject skilled players anytime they want - they're choosing not to.

nobody said the goal was to win. That doesn't mean the goal is to lose.

Winning/Losing, management is indifferent to that. The goal is proper development and building a team that could win in the future.

If we wanted to lose I'm sure we could have traded JVR, Komarov and/or Kadri for return that would benefit the future and not having them here for any games this season would have helped lose us a lot of game. If management wanted to put together a team who's sole purpose to lose it would be pretty damn obvious, there would literally be 0 NHLers on the team, anyone could put together a team that would lose a lot if that was the sole goal.

 

[seanlinden]

I don't think it's a major concern here.

What I would like to see implemented however is you can only have a certain number of picks. Eg:
Can only have 1 1st overall within a 5 year span.
Can only have 2 top 3 picks in a 5 year span
You can only have 3 top 5 picks etc.

Once you reach those variables the highest pick you can have is outside the top 5 picks. Something along those lines so it's not the same teams being in the top 3 year after year

Objectively... let's say a team massively screws up a #1 OA pick.... or gets really unlucky... Nail Yakupov seems to be the weakest thus far...

Should that prevent a team from getting the prospects they need?

Remember, the reason we have this system, isn't to "reward" poor play, but rather, accelerate the growth out of it.

That being said, I do question the merits of making it so that "anyone" can win the 1st overall pick. The team that finishes 2 points out of a playoff spot doesn't need that generational talent. it doesn't really serve the league's best interest.

I'd almost rather see a system where we put back the restriction on how far you can move up, but pick more numbers.

Something like:

Pick 5 teams, no team can move up more than 4 spots. Each team selected takes precedence over the one selected before it. It should result in a fair bit of randomization, but teams still picking approximately where they should be based on standings.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

The system of rewarding the worst team has been used for as long as I remember, why is it even an issue now that we are the team that is "tanking" ? Nothing to fix IMO.

Edmonton's incompetence has had far reaching implications than just keeping them being a constant bottom feeder. This new lottery system sucks for us but the NHL felt the need to try and somehow make it more difficult for Edmonton to get a first overall pick. They'd have been better off just making a rule that a team can't pick first two years in a row. Simple. Now we've got a little less than a 50/50 chance of ending up with the 4th pick (if we do finish dead last).

Also, there's fans of the Leafs who just don't like tanking at all, and would rather have a system whole change than have to watch what is currently ongoing with the Leafs.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

To "solve" the issue you simply remove the reward for losing.

Every team, playoff qualifier or not, gets a 1/30 chance at the 1st overall pick.

Essentially, draw for the draft order every year.

The only reward for losing constantly? Declining attendance (except in Toronto where they have sold Personal Seat Licenses) and ratings.

horrible

 

[HamiltonNHL]

#1) Tanking isn't a problem.
#2) The suggestions in this thread are either bizarre or impossible

 

[Woodman19]

#1) Tanking isn't a problem.
#2) The suggestions in this thread are either bizarre or impossible

Exactly. With teams like Edmonton, the issue is how they rely on 1 single pick every year to blossom into an instant star to lead them to glory while still being very weak in player development.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Worse thing that ever happened to hockey in the big markets

It's bad for Toronto, but in Bettman's NHL ... it's about the American teams ... increase interest in Hockey = big fat American TV contracts = The aim of the NHL.

Toronto is just a tool to raise money to fund American Expansion.

The Salary cap is there to keep Canadian teams down. If the Cup was Toronto vs Montreal each year .... many American teams would fold.

Instead, hockey is coming to Vegas !

Thanks Gary, you are the best.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

if anything they should just limit the amount you can draft in the top 3 over a 5 year period. say 3 top 3 picks in 5 years in enough , if you get another top 3 pick you are forced to trade down or outright for prospects/nhl players. I only chose 3 out of 5 because that seems to be the norm turn around for most teams not including the oil of course

 

[Leaf of the Mind]

This is a non-issue imo. For every Edmonton disaster there's teams who bottomed out and built their teams well, incorporating high picks: LA, Chicago, Pittsburgh, to name a few. Look at how many expansion teams like Tampa, Ottawa, Florida and Anaheim eventually became contenders, despite those first terrible years.

Each league has a black sheep that skews people's ideas about team building. In the NFL there are the Raiders and Browns for anti tankers. The Redskins are held up by the anti-free agent spending crowd. In the NBA there are the 76ers, the perpetual tankers who still can't get better. These teams are in the minority, just perfect storms of bad, even deliberate mismanagement.
The sooner we stop hearing about the Oilers as a model of anything typical the better.

 

[garyjones93]

What if the NHL just removed the Draft, Merge with CHL, Give Each NHL team 1 OHL, 1 WHL, 1 QMJHL team (even if it just affiliations because poor teams can't afford extra costs). Sign an develop players at 16 to the respected clubs. Remove the CHL-AHL rule (allow any 18 to play in AHL even if drafted out of the CHL) Allow the Purchasing/Selling of players.

This would be so much better for the development of players. Teams get their rights from 16. Remove RFA, allow players from the age of 16 decide where their Career should be (it's a joke the NHL forces players to work where the NHL wants, not the player, it's arguably a form of slavery). No draft equals all teams trying to win there is no incentive to lose.

Will some teams have a hard time and fold? Quite possibly but so what, the NHL/Teams are a business, if you can't stay afloat on your own then you go out of business.