Soderberg's upside and the B's future at center...

[finchster]

Do we exclude Getzlaf too then? He plays with Perry.

Malkin's been lining up next to Neal.

Toews, do we need to even speak about the wings they have?

Krejci just spent a season (his best since before most hopped on the bandwagon) with one of the greatest goal scorers in the history of the game.

I bring all of that up because its very easy to judge a player, especially a center, by just watching him...regardless of his linemates.

Line mates can effect production, however, for the truly elite players, line mates are irrelevant. I have a very specific definition of elite players and good players; elite players can put up points by themselves, whereas good players need help.

Take Marc Savard for example, he played with Hossa and Kovalchuk and scored 97 points. Savard comes to Boston and plays with nobody and scores 96 points. Savard was also above a PPG for two years under Julien's "system" (another lame argument).

Eric Staal has scored close to a PPG almost every year (but this one) regardless if he had good or bad line mates.

Crosby scored 102 points in his rookie year playing with a well past their prime Recchi and Leclair.

Pavel Bure scored 59 goals in the dead puck era with NO ONE on the team.

This brings me to Krejci, Krejci is a very good player but he isn't what I would call elite. He is the kind of player that needs help to put up points. I think he's scoring as many points as his talent will allow and the Bruins have tried to build lines to support his skills. Even if he had Ovechkin on his line, I don't think Krejci's point totals would significantly go up.

 

[Spoked-B]

Have you watched Backstrom play regularly? He actually is a pretty good 3 zone player. Krejci is more physical, but Bax, while certainly not a PK specialist, spends more time on the ice SH than Krejci does.

Once again, like Krejci a lot, but some here are overrating him.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Soderberg and his upside?

I've watched Backstrom plenty, and he's simply not as good defensively as Krejci (IMHO). I can't agree that SHTOI is indicative of defensive acumen, unless they are playing on the same team and the coach chooses one over the other. Other than Bergy-Marchy, who provide defense AND occasional offense on the PK, Julien tends to spread the PK minutes to bottom-6 guys like Campbell, Paille, Kelly, and (not a bottom-6 guys but one known to be very strong defensively) Eriksson. In the playoffs Julien put him out there 1:40 (compared w/ 0:38 during the regular season), when one could say there was more pressure to be sound defensively.

I'm not sure what this has to do w/ Carl, but the thread seemed to have taken a tangent on Giroux/Backstrom being better than DK. If this conversation took place in the "Time to trade DK" thread, I'd have responded there!

 

[ODAAT]

I think Sods in that third slot is perfect, I`m not yet convinced he`s a guy who could fight his way through opponents top checking lines

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Line mates can effect production, however, for the truly elite players, line mates are irrelevant. I have a very specific definition of elite players and good players; elite players can put up points by themselves, whereas good players need help.

Take Marc Savard for example, he played with Hossa and Kovalchuk and scored 97 points. Savard comes to Boston and plays with nobody and scores 96 points. Savard was also above a PPG for two years under Julien's "system" (another lame argument).

Glen Murray could still play back then in 06-07 and it was before Julien killed all offensive creativity on the PP. Savard had 49 PP points that season. Our best forward now always gets less than 20 PP points per season.

 

[wintersej]

Glen Murray could still play back then in 06-07 and it was before Julien killed all offensive creativity on the PP. Savard had 49 PP points that season. Our best forward now always gets less than 20 PP points per season.

We don't have any forwards as good offensively as Savard, either.

 

[Trap Jesus]

I'm just happy both him and Krejci will be UFAs after this year. Obviously, Krejci is the #1 priority (and I think keeping both Krejci and Soderberg is impossible), but it's nice to have a plan B.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I'm just happy both him and Krejci will be UFAs after this year. Obviously, Krejci is the #1 priority (and I think keeping both Krejci and Soderberg is impossible), but it's nice to have a plan B.

I'm sure I'm reading this wrong, but why are you happy they are both FA's? I would prefer them locked up on their current deals for the next 5 years personally.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I think Sods in that third slot is perfect, I`m not yet convinced he`s a guy who could fight his way through opponents top checking lines

There's only one way to find out

Honestly, I thought Carl looked pretty good in his cameos against Top 6 competition. Who knows if he could consistently put up numbers against better players, but don't forget the wings he would be playing with would also be higher caliber.

 

[Beesfan]

There's only one way to find out

Honestly, I thought Carl looked pretty good in his cameos against Top 6 competition. Who knows if he could consistently put up numbers against better players, but don't forget the wings he would be playing with would also be higher caliber.

I don't think he has the type of offensive talent to excel in a top 6 role. Krejci and Bergeron both distribute the puck much better than he does.

 

[Trap Jesus]

I'm sure I'm reading this wrong, but why are you happy they are both FA's? I would prefer them locked up on their current deals for the next 5 years personally.

Well obviously, but that's not realistic. Chia has all year to focus on working on an extension for Krejci, but if that doesn't materialize, he still has a good (and cheaper) back-up plan to have Soderberg as a top 6 center. If their deals were up in different years, it just wouldn't be the same. For example, what if Soderberg's contract was up next year but Krejci was up in 2 years? Do you risk letting Soderberg walk in the hopes you could sign Krejci? Do you get him under contract but risk not allocating enough for Krejci's new deal? The current situation is a blessing IMO.

Soderberg doesn't owe this organization anything. Why would he take a massive pay-cut to be a 3rd line center when he can easily get top 6 money elsewhere? This is his big chance to cash in.

 

[member 96824]

There's only one way to find out

Honestly, I thought Carl looked pretty good in his cameos against Top 6 competition. Who knows if he could consistently put up numbers against better players, but don't forget the wings he would be playing with would also be higher caliber.

It's the Ryan Spooner discussion all over again!

"He's not ready to play against NHL talent."

"He'll only get ready BY playing against NHL talent!"



I'm completely sold on Soderberg and his ability to play line 2. He's got the skill, strength, size, and most of all, IQ to do so. I've never understood the fear of change that has snuck in the last couple of years. "I won't be convinced until he does it, but I don't want him to play that role" makes no sense to me.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

It's the Ryan Spooner discussion all over again!

"He's not ready to play against NHL talent."

"He'll only get ready BY playing against NHL talent!"



I'm completely sold on Soderberg and his ability to play line 2. He's got the skill, strength, size, and most of all, IQ to do so. I've never understood the fear of change that has snuck in the last couple of years. "I won't be convinced until he does it, but I don't want him to play that role" makes no sense to me.

I'm with ya on this. Not convinced that trading Krejci to find out is the team's best move going forward. But I have no doubt that Soderberg would be able to succeed in a second line center role if he was tasked to do so. And I don't mean adequate fill-in either. He'd be a GOOD NHL second line center.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I don't think he has the type of offensive talent to excel in a top 6 role. Krejci and Bergeron both distribute the puck much better than he does.

I'm going to disagree with you here. He's plenty talented enough to be good in the Top 6. Who says he needs to excel at $1 mil per? As far as DK and Bergeron go, it's hard to quantify your statement, but I would not feel uncomfortable saying that Soderberg distributes the puck as well/better than Bergeron.

Before you freak out, he's nowhere near the overall player that 37 is (which is not what you said), but then again, not many are. Like MMB, I don't know that trading Krejci is the best move, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out because I don't think Soderberg can cut it as a #2 C.