So why exactly is MacKinnon better than Matthews again?

[OppositeLocK]

And yet MacKinnon still had a higher PPG rate.

Yes because 17 secondary assists are much more valuable than goals.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Mackinnon, McDavid and Matthews threads are taking over the WORLD!!!!

Atleast all the Price overrated threads have stopped though

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Mark Stone says hi

Ha, I'm a Sens fan so within our fanbase he's a god. He is up there for sure, though.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Matthews is the best goalscorer in the league right now but I still feel that MacKinnon is more dominant on the ice.

At the end of the day though, I can get 2 MacKinnons for less than the price of 1 Matthews and an Engvall.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Yes because 17 secondary assists are much more valuable than goals.

Points are points. Anyone claiming otherwise is trying to push a stupid narrative.

 

[OppositeLocK]

Points are points. Anyone claiming otherwise is trying to push a stupid narrative.

No, a stupid narrative is equating a secondary assist to a goal.

Just like comparing plus-minus without comparing linemates, or any other stat without context.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I would rather have Matthews. He's a world class goal scorer.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Points are points. Anyone claiming otherwise is trying to push a stupid narrative.

You can't seriously think a phantom secondary assist where the player does nothing to create the goal is equal to players that score the actual goal?

 

[Grifter3511]

No, a stupid narrative is equating a secondary assist to a goal.

Just like comparing plus-minus without comparing linemates, or any other stat without context.

I'd say you're contradicting yourself somewhat. If no stat is comparable without context then you can't flat out say a goal is more valuable than a secondary assist.

Being the final person to touch the puck, hell even the penultimate person, before it goes in the net doesn't always mean you were the most critical to the play. Alex Burrows routinely scored more goals than the Sedins while he was their linemate. Would anyone argue Burrows is better or more valuable than Henrik Sedin because Burrows got 30 goals and Henrik got 10?

 

[OppositeLocK]

I'd say you're contradicting yourself somewhat. If no stat is comparable without context then you can't flat out say a goal is more valuable than a secondary assist.

Being the final person to touch the puck, hell even the penultimate person, before it goes in the net doesn't always mean you were the most critical to the play. Alex Burrows routinely scored more goals than the Sedins while he was there linemate. Would anyone argue Burrows is better or more valuable than Henrik Sedin because Burrows got 30 goals and Henrik got 10?

You're absolutely right. But being credited consistently with goals is much harder than it is assists.

Even mathematically, for every goal you can have two assists generated. So assists are numerous by design.

That's why if someone is really dominant in the goals category, it speaks higher volumes than someone just racking up assists.

It's hard to take a lot of goals out of context.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I'd say you're contradicting yourself somewhat. If no stat is comparable without context then you can't flat out say a goal is more valuable than a secondary assist.

Being the final person to touch the puck, hell even the penultimate person, before it goes in the net doesn't always mean you were the most critical to the play. Alex Burrows routinely scored more goals than the Sedins while he was their linemate. Would anyone argue Burrows is better or more valuable than Henrik Sedin because Burrows got 30 goals and Henrik got 10?

Burrows was 100% a product of his linemates. Would any sane person say Matthews is a product of Marner? I don't think that's a fair comparison IMO.

 

[Wings4Life]

MacKinnon is a proven playoff performer, for one.

Two, he is tough as nails and doesn't let himself get rag dolled by random plugs.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You can't seriously think a phantom secondary assist where the player does nothing to create the goal is equal to players that score the actual goal?

Are you suggesting that every secondary assist is a "phantom" that "does nothing to create the goal".

And what about goals where the guy who gets credit didn't do anything, other than have the puck randomly deflect off of them? Are those worth more than a great pass that ended up as a secondary assist?

 

[Foppberg]

Because we have eyes.

 

[OppositeLocK]

Are you suggesting that every secondary assist is a "phantom" that "does nothing to create the goal".

And what about goals where the guy who gets credit didn't do anything, other than have the puck randomly deflect off of them? Are those worth more than a great pass that ended up as a secondary assist?

You're talking about exceptions not rules.

On average, goals will always be worth more than assists in hockey.

 

[Luongoisthegoat]

Dude, have you seen Matthews play?! Many times the puck just seems to find him on the ice and like that the puck is in the back of the net. It's almost like Matthes can tap into the quantum field and manifest a scoring chance in the present moment when he's on the ice...

Yeah, he really did manifest so many goals against the habs. Really tapped into the quantum field.

 

[BlueOil]

Hes underrated too but IMO he's not even near as underrated as Marchand... its gross how people don't consider him a top player ever

he's not underrated, his old reputation still precedes his talent so that's all people talk about with him

 

[Nsjohnson]

I just love these post-loss threads.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Are you suggesting that every secondary assist is a "phantom" that "does nothing to create the goal".

And what about goals where the guy who gets credit didn't do anything, other than have the puck randomly deflect off of them? Are those worth more than a great pass that ended up as a secondary assist?

I would say the number of phantom secondary assists is much higher than the scenario you described. Not that it is "always" the case, but if you do the numbers I think you'd say the goal scorer had more to do with it more often than the secondary assist guy.

 

[3074326]

No, a stupid narrative is equating a secondary assist to a goal.

Just like comparing plus-minus without comparing linemates, or any other stat without context.

No, a stupid narrative is finding stats that fit your argument and arguing with people who feel differently. That's what you're doing. Stop, it's stupid and it's a narrative. You've said nothing in this thread that changes anyone's mind.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Dude, have you seen Matthews play?! Many times the puck just seems to find him on the ice and like that the puck is in the back of the net. It's almost like Matthes can tap into the quantum field and manifest a scoring chance in the present moment when he's on the ice...

He was sure a force against Montreal.

Or.. I should say he was a force for Montreal...

 

[BlueOil]

watch defenses deal with mackinnon vs. matthews. they are more concerned about mackinnon than matthews for good reason. matthews will still be one of the most dangerous players for a defense to manage, but if mackinnon's on the ice, they're going to have to worry about him more. he's faster, can make plays at full speed, and create more space with his speed. matthews is a gem, but he can't back off a 5 man unit the way mackinnon can. could pick the corner through all five of them tho.

 

[OppositeLocK]

Yeah, he really did manifest so many goals against the habs. Really tapped into the quantum field.

Yeah, because MacKinnon really dominated Vegas.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yeah, he really did manifest so many goals against the habs. Really tapped into the quantum field.

He had a bad series yes but MacK didn't exactly light the world on fire against Vegas even if his stats were better.

 

[koyvoo]

But Matthews still has more PPG than MacKinnon. So you can make the whole playmaking argument but Matthews has generated quantifiably more offence than MacKinnon.

TJ Oshie better than Backstrom. Goals is it.