So what happens if this team is actually bad?

[Elysian]

Eakin is 37% on the PK. Maybe he should be trusted a little bit less. I've never said that Eakin sucks but come on. He has a lot of room for improvement and once again he has nothing to do with the discussion of whether Seguin could carry his line alone.

Actually, Eakin would be a pretty good partner for a Seguin carried line with no Benn.

 

[jason9090spezza]

So you've said, but you are actually just inferring rather than going off of any fact. Benn and Seguin have been tied at the hip literally the entire time Seguin has been in Dallas and coincidentally tearing the league up. You're severely understating Benn's significance in that duo.

No, not really. This team has had line changes over, and over, and over again...but he still keeps on scoring at the same rate.

I'm not saying Seguin-Benn is "bad" by no means, nor am I discouraging Benn. It's just that Seguin's success is CLEARELY not translating to team success due to awkward line combinations after 1st line.

Benn would start chipping in more goals while playing with Spezza IMO.


Maybe they should go back to a one-man line team of Benn-Seguin-Spezza...seriously, I could recall this team was still doing "ok"/so-so" with that line. I know I'm going to get some criticism, but it's better than ANY line combinations that the management has been doing.

 

[beepeearr]

Actually, Eakin would be a pretty good partner for a Seguin carried line with no Benn.

I seriously doubt that. Part of what makes Benn Seguin so good together is Benn size, passing, and the fact he is a major scoring threat. Eakin is not going to draw the defense to him the way Benn will often leaving Seguin open. We've seen larger teams over power Eakin, Roussel, and Garbutt. You think a line of Eakin Seguin isn't going to have issues dealing with size?

 

[glovesave_35]

No, not really. This team has had line changes over, and over, and over again...but he still keeps on scoring at the same rate.

I'm not saying Seguin-Benn is "bad" by no means, nor am I discouraging Benn. It's just that Seguin's success is CLEARELY not translating to team success due to awkward line combinations after 1st line.

Benn would start chipping in more goals while playing with Spezza IMO.


Maybe they should go back to a one-man line team of Benn-Seguin-Spezza...seriously, I could recall this team was still doing "ok"/so-so" with that line. I know I'm going to get some criticism, but it's better than ANY line combinations that the management has been doing.

You are missing the point. You said Seguin can score with whoever he plays with. We have never seen him score without Benn. They've literally never been separated for more than a couple periods at a time. I think they have started every single game both were healthy for on the same line.

 

[Troy McClure]

We have seen Seguin score plenty without Benn. It's not like Benn assists on every one of his goals.

 

[Satan]

It's worth noting though that when separated last year, Seguin got out-possessed and scored on more often than scored.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I don't think of Seguin as a possession player. probably good to have Benn on the line to carry the puck. Third guy should be a digger or at least passer.

Stars best line historically is Jere-Mo-Hull. Digger/D-Passer-Shooter.

What about Neal-Richards-Louis - Shooter-Passer-Digger/D (those guys had even more cross over skill, as Neal could hit, Richards and Loui could score.

Later, Tip kept putting Mo with struggling players while Niewy or later centers got the top wingers. Probably hurt his production.

And, most coaches think in terms of pairs and certainly they have a winner combo. Probably not going to improve on it, but could find the right piece to make it really special, more than it is now, if possible.

 

[glovesave_35]

We have seen Seguin score plenty without Benn. It's not like Benn assists on every one of his goals.

I'm all for this experiment. Let's reverse roles and give Seguin some combination of Cole/Eakin/Roussel and let Spezza play with Benn and a warm body.

If Seguin keeps up his pace we'll be all the better for it.

 

[jason9090spezza]

Argh, how long do I have to exactly "wait" for this team to show at least a glimpse of success.

I'm pretty patient, but I'm tired with this whole "you gotta wait" **** with Melnyk and Murray.

Hope it's earlier than spring.

 

[glovesave_35]

Umm...not really. As I said before, Seguin still produces at a consistent rate being paired with pretty much anyone. The team has been shuffling and juggling lines so there is no way that Seguin and Benn are always on the same line.


And about this whole "Seguin's individual success translating into a team success"...not sure about that.

Because I've been waiting for 28 games, and this team hasn't really showed me ANY team success.

How long do I have to "wait"?
Hope it's earlier than spring lol.

Back and forth we go.

I've missed a few games recently so if Benn and Seguin haven't been playing together it's news to me. I know that earlier this year and all of last year they played together almost exclusively, though obviously not 100% of the time.

This year, Seguin has been with Benn 91.8% of the time and Benn has been Seguin's most common linemate at 83.6%. Last year those numbers were 87.3% and 84.2%, respectively.

It is your assertion that Seguin can continue scoring like he has since being in Dallas over any significant period of time without Benn. I am not saying he can't keep putting up big numbers. I'm not even saying he can't continue scoring at the exact same rate. What I'm saying is you are claiming this as fact when it isn't.

 

[Daniel M]

Benn - Seguin - Peverly
Nichushkin - Spezza - Hemsky
Roussel - Eakin - Garbutt
Horcoff - Fiddler - Sceviour/McKenzie

Daley - Goligoski
Demers - Klingberg
Nemeth - Oleksiak

I wish.

 

[oconnor9sean]

Benn - Seguin - Peverly
Nichushkin - Spezza - Hemsky
Roussel - Eakin - Garbutt
Horcoff - Fiddler - Sceviour/McKenzie

Daley - Goligoski
Demers - Klingberg
Nemeth - Oleksiak

I wish.

As much as we talk about the loss of Val/Nemeth being important, I think the loss of Pevs (which is almost forgotten now-a-days) is just as huge, if not more so. He fit in to that 1RW so damn well.

Imagine how even more lopsided the trade would seem if Pevs were still able to play.

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

Pevs knew how to play some gdamn defense too.

 

[Daniel M]

Yeah, I miss him tons. I loved watching that line.

 

[StarsTx]

Benn - Seguin - Peverly
Nichushkin - Spezza - Hemsky
Roussel - Eakin - Garbutt
Horcoff - Fiddler - Sceviour/McKenzie

Daley - Goligoski
Demers - Klingberg
Nemeth - Oleksiak

I wish.

You'd have to put Pevs on the second line for defensive purposes, and not a fan of having both our RhD on the second pairing.

 

[tjcurrie]

Ah yes. The ol' Brett Hull vs Adam Oates debate, re: Benn vs Seguin

 

[OttMorrow]

Ah yes. The ol' Brett Hull vs Adam Oates debate, re: Benn vs Seguin

Until Seguin does ANYTHING in the playoffs, it's Benn hands down.

 

[tjcurrie]

Until Seguin does ANYTHING in the playoffs, it's Benn hands down.

Last season I was on Benn's side by far, this season I would say it's been swaying the other way, though that's only based on scoring. Neither has been at their best, even if Seguin's numbers suggest otherwise. I preferred both last season.

Overall they both bring different qualities. Seguin will likely outscore Benn career-wise, but that doesn't necessarily make him the better player.

This is something that should go back and forth. Benn has had a slow go this season, yet is still chipping in at a pretty decent pace. Overall he does bring a lot more to the table, and is the better rounded player. Playoffs he was easily the better player, and I'm not going to jump on the "Seguin Is God" wagon just because of his pace so far. I mean I like the guy, he's a helluva player and we won that trade hands down, but we'll see Benn pick up his game again and then it'll sway back in his favor.

Both are damn fine players, and to say one truly NEEDS the other or that one MAKES the other is nonsense. It's not like it's Wayne Gretzky vs Jari Kurri. Not to say Kurri wasnt a damn good player, he was, but in their case there was a clear catalyst. Gretzky was outscoring Kurri by 70 - 80 points a season, Seguin isn't even in that universe.

 

[OttMorrow]

Last season I was on Benn's side by far, this season I would say it's been swaying the other way, though that's only based on scoring. Neither has been at their best, even if Seguin's numbers suggest otherwise. I preferred both last season.

Overall they both bring different qualities. Seguin will likely outscore Benn career-wise, but that doesn't necessarily make him the better player.

This is something that should go back and forth. Benn has had a slow go this season, yet is still chipping in at a pretty decent pace. Overall he does bring a lot more to the table, and is the better rounded player. Playoffs he was easily the better player, and I'm not going to jump on the "Seguin Is God" wagon just because of his pace so far. I mean I like the guy, he's a helluva player and we won that trade hands down, but we'll see Benn pick up his game again and then it'll sway back in his favor.

Both are damn fine players, and to say one truly NEEDS the other or that one MAKES the other is nonsense. It's not like it's Wayne Gretzky vs Jari Kurri. Not to say Kurri wasnt a damn good player, he was, but in their case there was a clear catalyst. Gretzky was outscoring Kurri by 70 - 80 points a season, Seguin isn't even in that universe.

Yes, both players are spectacular. I agree with all of this.

I'm really looking forward to Seguin threatening some Franchise and Dallas records later this year. That will give us a reason to watch even if the tank sputters.

 

[jason9090spezza]

Back and forth we go.

I've missed a few games recently so if Benn and Seguin haven't been playing together it's news to me. I know that earlier this year and all of last year they played together almost exclusively, though obviously not 100% of the time.

This year, Seguin has been with Benn 91.8% of the time and Benn has been Seguin's most common linemate at 83.6%. Last year those numbers were 87.3% and 84.2%, respectively.

It is your assertion that Seguin can continue scoring like he has since being in Dallas over any significant period of time without Benn. I am not saying he can't keep putting up big numbers. I'm not even saying he can't continue scoring at the exact same rate. What I'm saying is you are claiming this as fact when it isn't.

Sorry, I erased my quote, because I thought u were trying to pull the "you gotta wait" game on me.

And about this whole Seguin-Benn thing, I don't think I ever "claimed" it (maybe I did write it that way), but what I was trying to state was that there are other guys on our team that is DESPERATELY in need of a player that can actually play a decent game.
Benn's stats may seem ok because he is getting all the assists from Seguin's goals. That doesn't justify the fact that he is still struggling to score goals.

Benn has to be one of those guys that keeps on putting pucks in the net. Than u see Spezza who needs someone to play alongside with him.

The "stats" may say that Seguin and Benn are playing alongside for a long time, but from what I've seen so far, I just felt that there isn't really a necessity to put Benn alongside with Seguin, who is pretty much dominating no matter who is playing alongside with him.

 

[jason9090spezza]

BTW, it's almost a miracle if he makes it, but I really hope Seguin reaches 50 in 50.

I know thats it's unlikely, but 23 goals in 29 games isn't really "impossible" IMO.

 

[Klockis]

Until Seguin does ANYTHING in the playoffs, it's Benn hands down.

Seguin's career shooting percentage in the playoffs is 4,7%. Last years playoff he was shooting at 4%. That is very clearly unsustainable (just like him shooting at 19% is unsustainable this season). Benn was shooting at 25% last years playoffs.

When Seguin's career is all said and done he might challange Modano and Zubov for best player ever in the Stars franchise. Benn is not going to, he is probably at his peak at 25 and I think he needs someone like Seguin to be PPG.

 

[Troy McClure]

50 in 50 in this NHL is almost impossible, unless you play Lindback 20 times a season.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

We just can't be happy with 50 in 82?

 

[glovesave_35]

Sorry, I erased my quote, because I thought u were trying to pull the "you gotta wait" game on me.

And about this whole Seguin-Benn thing, I don't think I ever "claimed" it (maybe I did write it that way), but what I was trying to state was that there are other guys on our team that is DESPERATELY in need of a player that can actually play a decent game.
Benn's stats may seem ok because he is getting all the assists from Seguin's goals. That doesn't justify the fact that he is still struggling to score goals.

Benn has to be one of those guys that keeps on putting pucks in the net. Than u see Spezza who needs someone to play alongside with him.

The "stats" may say that Seguin and Benn are playing alongside for a long time, but from what I've seen so far, I just felt that there isn't really a necessity to put Benn alongside with Seguin, who is pretty much dominating no matter who is playing alongside with him.

The "stats" are objective and they show that Benn and Seguin play together a ton.

I agree that Spezza needs a Benn, what I don't agree with is that Seguin will just continue to roll at the clip he is if he isn't playing with Benn or Spezza or both.

You can say all you want that Benn has to be a goal scorer but he's been labeled one thing throughout his career and his game really isn't as quite as one dimensional. He's an all around offensive forward who plays a physical game and who can defend better than a lot of first line players. If you're going to say he's racking up assists on Seguin goals then there isn't much to discuss. I went back and watched his goals to make sure I'm not creating a false narrative. Benn has been incredibly instrumental in a good number of Seguin goals. Just in the last nine or so goals Benn was the primary assister on about 6 of them, creating havoc in the front of the net on one, passed to Spezza to Seguin for a PPG, etc.

http://video.stars.nhl.com/videocenter/console?hlp=8475794&lang=en

Watch them one after the other and tell me that Benn isn't dishing Seguin some beautiful set-ups. And all of that is with Benn apparently slumping pretty hard.