So what did Burke achieve?

[BayStreetBully]

People like to roast Burke for his time here but look at the actual pile of trash he inherited. By the time he was let go we actually had legitimate valuable assets on the roster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Toronto_Maple_Leafs_season

Seriously, look at that team. Jason Blake was our best player...UGH

We are not any better now. We were a bottom 5 team then, and we are a bottom 5 team now. Aside from Kessel, our top players now are not producing any better than our top players from 2009. JVR today is producing no better than Blake, Ponikarovsky, Stajan and Antropov did back then. And none of our other current Leafs even comes close. So we have 2 60 point scorers now, compared to 4 60 point scorers then. So in fact, you might even argue that from a personnel standpoint, we were a better team in 2009 than we are now.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

We did Nashville a solid by taking on a cap dump and got a struggling project in Franson back in return. Franson has up until this season best been known for his many mistakes in his own zone. Not that amazing of a trade.
Yes, the same Schenn he extended but later traded managed to get us a good return. I am ok with that one.
If you would summarise Dions years in Toronto would you describe it as a win? What if he traded away those scraps for picks instead and rebuilt, would we be in a better position today? I would think so.
Versteeg, yes a good trade, Credit to Burke on that one. He also managed to get rid of Paradise (another Burke mistake) when he first traded to get Versteeg. But he should get credit for that trade.
Kaberle trade was also a solid one, I agree.
Beauchemin for Lupul and Gardiner, hmmm I am not sure who won that trade. I guess it was a solid hockey trade. Anaheim ended up with the best player in the trade but we got two solid pieces who has some value.

Liles for a 2nd was that also a good trade? Extending him when being out with a concussion was that the smart move?
Hayes for a 2nd so he could draft Ross, was that a good trade?
Poni for Caputi was that also a solid one?

Burke did a lot of trades, some good, some bad. Overall his style was more throw it against the wall and see what sticks. That is never a good strategy. His FA signings ended up being bought out or playing in the AHL since he used TML´s financial strengths to take chances other GM´s would not. Some times he managed to get lucky and others not so much. But it all gives you a picture of some one not really having an idea what he is supposed to do to become successful. Unlike his time in Anaheim no one had set the table for him and he did not easily get his hands on 3 HHOF players for reasons out of his control. He was just the lucky guy in charge at the time. Once that luck run out he made some horrible deals and there was a reason Anaheim was not giving up a fight to keep him as a GM. The Bertuzzi signing blow up in his face and he had to be bought out, he lost Bryzgalov on waivers, he had no room to resign Penner so Oilers offer-sheeted him and took him away from Anaheim. And his draft record when at Anaheim was tragic so he did not do much with those picks either, and that is a surprise considering they have drafted well before and after him so their scouts are solid ones.

I'm sorry, you took a lot of time to type out a reply. But I listed out his 6 biggest trades while Burke was GM here.

I am still waiting for an answer.

I responded to your assertion that Burke made the Leafs worse asset wise.

How did he, if you want to go trade by trade, signing by signing let's do it. Which BTW none of the contracts he gave out hurt us today.

 

[ironhorse384]

We are not any better now. We were a bottom 5 team then, and we are a bottom 5 team now. Aside from Kessel, our top players now are not producing any better than our top players from 2009. JVR today is producing no better than Blake, Ponikarovsky, Stajan and Antropov did back then. And none of our other current Leafs even comes close. So we have 2 60 point scorers now, compared to 4 60 point scorers then. So in fact, you might even argue that from a personnel standpoint, we were a better team in 2009 than we are now.

So in essence all Burke managed to do was cost us spots in the draft. We only made the playoffs once during his tenure and even that is spotty considering that they didn't play a full season. I think one could say,without going out on a limb, that had the leafs played a full season that year they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs then either taking into account this group's propensity for collapses.

 

[613Leafer]

We are not any better now. We were a bottom 5 team then, and we are a bottom 5 team now. Aside from Kessel, our top players now are not producing any better than our top players from 2009. JVR today is producing no better than Blake, Ponikarovsky, Stajan and Antropov did back then. And none of our other current Leafs even comes close. So we have 2 60 point scorers now, compared to 4 60 point scorers then. So in fact, you might even argue that from a personnel standpoint, we were a better team in 2009 than we are now.

Actually we werent even a bottom 5 team. 2009-2010 was Burke's first full season here. We finished 24th in the league in both 2008 and 2009, then finished 29th in the league in 2010 (first year with Kessel, Komi, Beauchemin, etc).

Now years and years later, we're yet again very likely to finish in a WORSE position than either 2008 or 2009 (granted, 2008 we had Sundin).

The pieces look better on paper, but their ability to play as a TEAM is horrendous. Our main forwards are too one-dimensional, and have repeatedly played pretty bad hockey at even strength. The names werent as sexy, but Blake, Antropov, Stajan, Poni, etc played more responsible hockey, and Kaberle-Kubina was a pretty underrated top pairing. If it werent for absolutely terrible goaltending, those teams would havr finished outside the bottom 10.

The downside with those teams were the ages of those players. Plenty of 30+ year olds. Our core is younger now, but not performing any better.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I'm sorry, you took a lot of time to type out a reply. But I listed out his 6 biggest trades while Burke was GM here.

I am still waiting for an answer.

I responded to your assertion that Burke made the Leafs worse asset wise.

How did he, if you want to go trade by trade, signing by signing let's do it. Which BTW none of the contracts he gave out hurt us today.

Just look at the standings, just look at where our prospect pool is ranked. He did not improve us. We do have some players with more talent today then we had then but they are the result of the team not being any good and ending up picking high at the draft. And in two of those drafts we did not even have any picks and no way we will get back what we gave up to get Kessel.

Burke took a bottom team with a poor prospect pool in need or a rebuild and turned it in to a bottom team with a poor prospect pool in need of a rebuild. How can that be called success?

 

[ironhorse384]

Just look at the standings, just look at where our prospect pool is ranked. He did not improve us. We do have some players with more talent today then we had then but they are the result of the team not being any good and ending up picking high at the draft. And in two of those drafts we did not even have any picks and no way we will get back what we gave up to get Kessel.

Burke took a bottom team with a poor prospect pool in need or a rebuild and turned it in to a bottom team with a poor prospect pool in need of a rebuild. How can that be called success?

I don't see how anyone with any sense can call it a success, when in a results based industry you have none. Brian Burke had was given, essentially, a lump of clay to mold however he saw fit and he unequivocally blew it. The leafs were trending downward which meant high draft picks. The leafs were getting rid of contracts which meant they were going to have a ton of cap space to play with. If that didn't have rebuild stamped all over it I don't know what does. He instead tries to hit a homerun in his very first year and it has since cost us which will amount to over a decade of futility. I don't see how anyone in their right mind can say that that constitutes a win on any level.

 

[Pi]

How is Kessel trade at best a draw? Would you rather have 22-24 year old Seguin/Hamilton or 27 year old Kessel? No brainer.

Trades are not about winning the trade, it's to be made with the end goal in mind and organizational need. When we traded for Kessel, we had absolutely no need for him at all. We should have kept our picks and drafted with them.

Burke said he doesn't want to make it as the 8th seed and get his ass kicked in the playoffs but all his moves pointed to him wanting just that.

He trades immediately for Kessel, tries to sign many patchwork players like Armstrong, Komisarek etc. Then overpays for guys like Connolly etc. Signing Grabovski to a 5.5M contract, signing Liles to a four year contract?? What is that if not trying to make 8th seed?

Burke during his entire tenure tried to get to the playoffs as an 8th seed and couldn't even accomplish that.

He was a massive failure. It was very smart of him to not become a GM in Calgary because he would have done something stupid and people would more than likely think of his little lucky run in Anaheim as a fluke.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Just look at the standings, just look at where our prospect pool is ranked. He did not improve us. We do have some players with more talent today then we had then but they are the result of the team not being any good and ending up picking high at the draft. And in two of those drafts we did not even have any picks and no way we will get back what we gave up to get Kessel.

Burke took a bottom team with a poor prospect pool in need or a rebuild and turned it in to a bottom team with a poor prospect pool in need of a rebuild. How can that be called success?

Let's discuss the assets first. Before and after. Since this is what I was posting to.

We can go deal by deal to make it easier. Transaction by transaction. You can add any I omitted. But it's pretty accurate here are his biggest trades while Burke was here. Can we agree the assets he gave up were far less value than the ones he got back?

Lebda for Franson & Lombardi - Burke win
Schenn for JVR - Burke win
The Dion Phaneuf trade for scraps - Burke win
Versteeg for a first and a 3rd rd pick - Burke win
Kaberle for a first, 2nd and Colborne - Burke win
Beauchemin for Gardiner and Lupul - Burke win

Other than Kessel for 2 1sts and 2nd, which at best is a draw. Remember Seguin and Peverley only got back Smith, Ericksson, Morrow.

As for the prospects pool Tlusty was our best prospect when he got here. When Burke left we had Rielly, Finn, Leivo, Percy, Colborne, Kadri in the system. Didn't he leave it better than he found it.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Let's discuss the assets first. Before and after. Since this is what I was posting to.

We can go deal by deal to make it easier. Transaction by transaction. You can add any I omitted. But it's pretty accurate here are his biggest trades while Burke was here. Can we agree the assets he gave up were far less value than the ones he got back?

I already answered that post, you even replied to my answer previously.

 

[Pi]

Let's discuss the assets first. Before and after. Since this is what I was posting to.

We can go deal by deal to make it easier. Transaction by transaction. You can add any I omitted. But it's pretty accurate here are his biggest trades while Burke was here. Can we agree the assets he gave up were far less value than the ones he got back?



As for the prospects pool Tlusty was our best prospect when he got here. When Burke left we had Rielly, Finn, Leivo, Percy, Colborne, Kadri in the system. Didn't he leave it better than he found it.

Rielly was the result of a disappointing collapse. If Burke built his team the right way, we would never have drafted Rielly, we would have been in the playoffs and started contending by 2012.

Nylander was the result of a disappointing collapse.

Our top 5 pick this year will be the result of a disappointing collapse.

We've never started out the season as a playoff contender since ~2006.

We've picked top 5 instead of truly bottoming out. Our 2nd last finish was our worst since 1985 and we couldn't get to pick with our own draft pick.

I can't remember the last team that finished bottom 3 and didn't have their own draft pick. Huge mistake by Burke by miscalculating his ability in rebuilding the team.

Teams that finish in the bottom five keep their draft picks. Period.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

Lebda for Franson & Lombardi - Burke win
Schenn for JVR - Burke win
The Dion Phaneuf trade for scraps - Burke win
Versteeg for a first and a 3rd rd pick - Burke win
Kaberle for a first, 2nd and Colborne - Burke win
Beauchemin for Gardiner and Lupul - Burke win

1. Solid win long term on Burkes end- Say what you want about Franson but he's a legitmate top 4D in this league vs Lebda who couldn't even hack it. Lets also not forget the Franson trade led us to a 1st rounder and a decent prospect who looks to be at the very least a top 9 forward in this league

2. Highway robbery

3. Not sure I'd say it was a win- Calgary was clearly desperate to move Dion and while we didn't give up much assets for him it doesn't mean we won the trade either.

3. Slight edge to Burke because it helped land us Percy, how it turns out depends on how well Percy develops

4. At best a wash! The first rounder I believe was used to draft Biggs no? If so he hasn't progressed well at all and at this point doesn't look like he'll mount to anything. Colborne? He could have been something decent but we gave up on him too soon and he seems to be flourishing pretty well with Calgary... on the flip side we really didn't lose anything with Kaberle given his career tanked as soon as he left Toronto.

5. Long term I think it was a solid trade because we got a young promising top 4D in Gardiner, yea I know he's had some deep valleys but I still feel he's young enough still to turn things around and morph into a mid pairing blueliner.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I already answered that post, you even replied to my answer previously.

You said some deals were good, some were bad. Let's go deal by deal. We both know you are avoiding this. Since more of his deals were good, overwhelmingly good in some cases. I am challenging your assertion that Burke made this team worse asset wise. You have not backed up this statement. I'm giving you a chance to defute the deals I posted here and to add to them if you want.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

You said some deals were good, some were bad. Let's go deal by deal. We both know you are avoiding this. Since more of his deals were good, overwhelmingly good in some cases. I am challenging your assertion that Burke made this team worse asset wise. You have not backed up this statement. I'm giving you a chance to defute the deals I posted here and to add to them if you want.

I said more then that. This is seriously getting boring.

 

[613Leafer]

Let's discuss the assets first. Before and after. Since this is what I was posting to.

We can go deal by deal to make it easier. Transaction by transaction. You can add any I omitted. But it's pretty accurate here are his biggest trades while Burke was here. Can we agree the assets he gave up were far less value than the ones he got back?

A few of his bad moves

-Stralman for Wayne Primeau + 2nd
-Hayes for 2nd rounder to get Ross
-Tlusty for Paradis
-Kubina dumped for nothing to make room for Komi (BIG downgrade + much worse contract)
-Not selling players (particularly Grabo who was a pending UFA) at the 2012 trade deadline
-Trading up to get Biggs, focusing on size/physicality instead of skill/speed/hockey IQ (and getting two shots in the draft instead of one)
-Hiring Nonis, Poulin, and Loiselle
-Hiring Carlyle

Overall he was probably better than Nonis, but that Kessel move really puts the nail in the coffin and is the single move that set the poorly planned "win now" direction for this franchise over the past 5+ years. At least Burke got us more picks for the draft, Nonis' two drafts so far he's drafted 11 times total, which is disappointing. But I can't say I liked what either of them did here.

An average GM that simply focused on drafting, acquiring extra picks, etc. would have done a better job IMO.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Rielly was the result of a disappointing collapse. If Burke built his team the right way, we would never have drafted Rielly, we would have been in the playoffs and started contending by 2012.

Nylander was the result of a disappointing collapse.

Our top 5 pick this year will be the result of a disappointing collapse.

We've never started out the season as a playoff contender since ~2006.

We've picked top 5 instead of truly bottoming out. Our 2nd last finish was our worst since 1985 and we couldn't get to pick with our own draft pick.

I can't remember the last team that finished bottom 3 and didn't have their own draft pick. Huge mistake by Burke by miscalculating his ability in rebuilding the team.

Teams that finish in the bottom five keep their draft picks. Period.

Again, we are talking assets before Burke was here, and assets after he left 4 years later. This was simply the discussion I picked up on when it was claimed he made us worse asset wise. Why is this relevant? Because he set up the next GM with tradable more valuable assets for a retool or rebuild. Something he had less of when he took over. Discussion is on assets before and after.

 

[Pi]

Again, we are talking assets before Burke was here, and assets after he left 4 years later. This was simply the discussion I picked up on when it was claimed he made us worse asset wise. Why is this relevant? Because he set up the next GM with tradable more valuable assets for a retool or rebuild. Something he had less of when he took over. Discussion is on assets before and after.

What does assets have to do with anything at all?

If you're talking about assets, I guess Lowe and MacTavish are great!

RNH, Taylor Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, McEichel, Perron for 1st round pick etc.

Are the Oilers great because they have a lot of assets? The end game is to build a great team, not a team that sucks with assets.

Brian Burke took a team that had bad assets and no direction to a team that has assets and no direction. Big deal. We're still in the same place. We're no closer to winning the Cup now than we were in 2008.

Evaluate teams on results, not assets acquired and lost. Results say that the Leafs cannot make the playoffs in a full season despite spending to the cap every year. Every year they load up on "assets" and they fizzle right around this time.

 

[ironhorse384]

What does assets have to do with anything at all?

If you're talking about assets, I guess Lowe and MacTavish are great!

RNH, Taylor Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, McEichel, Perron for 1st round pick etc.

Are the Oilers great because they have a lot of assets? The end game is to build a great team, not a team that sucks with assets.

Brian Burke took a team that had bad assets and no direction to a team that has assets and no direction. Big deal. We're still in the same place. We're no closer to winning the Cup now than we were in 2008.

Evaluate teams on results, not assets acquired and lost. Results say that the Leafs cannot make the playoffs in a full season despite spending to the cap every year. Every year they load up on "assets" and they fizzle right around this time.

Yes but if you discuss the "assets" individually instead of collectively they don't look that bad.>

 

[mydnyte]

A few of his bad moves

-Stralman for Wayne Primeau + 2nd
-Hayes for 2nd rounder to get Ross
-Tlusty for Paradis
-Kubina dumped for nothing to make room for Komi (BIG downgrade + much worse contract)
-Not selling players (particularly Grabo who was a pending UFA) at the 2012 trade deadline
-Trading up to get Biggs, focusing on size/physicality instead of skill/speed/hockey IQ (and getting two shots in the draft instead of one)
-Hiring Nonis, Poulin, and Loiselle
-Hiring Carlyle

Overall he was probably better than Nonis, but that Kessel move really puts the nail in the coffin and is the single move that set the poorly planned "win now" direction for this franchise over the past 5+ years. At least Burke got us more picks for the draft, Nonis' two drafts so far he's drafted 11 times total, which is disappointing. But I can't say I liked what either of them did here.

An average GM that simply focused on drafting, acquiring extra picks, etc. would have done a better job IMO.

dont forget he drafted Devane in the 3rd round!!
...I like Devane, but, you dont draft a face puncher in the 3rd round, he would have likely been there in the 5th round if they really wanted him (or later).

Burke's size and toughness over skill mantra in the draft crushed us.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

A few of his bad moves

-Stralman for Wayne Primeau + 2nd
-Hayes for 2nd rounder to get Ross
-Tlusty for Paradis
-Kubina dumped for nothing to make room for Komi (BIG downgrade + much worse contract)
-Not selling players (particularly Grabo who was a pending UFA) at the 2012 trade deadline
-Trading up to get Biggs, focusing on size/physicality instead of skill/speed/hockey IQ (and getting two shots in the draft instead of one)
-Hiring Nonis, Poulin, and Loiselle
-Hiring Carlyle

Overall he was probably better than Nonis, but that Kessel move really puts the nail in the coffin and is the single move that set the poorly planned "win now" direction for this franchise over the past 5+ years. At least Burke got us more picks for the draft, Nonis' two drafts so far he's drafted 11 times total, which is disappointing. But I can't say I liked what either of them did here.

An average GM that simply focused on drafting, acquiring extra picks, etc. would have done a better job IMO.

We are talking assets. Thus.

I see 3 deals there I will add to the list.

Hayes for a 2nd(Ross) was fair at the time. 60th pick for 43rd. Blame this one on the scouting staff. Both were unproven at the time. Draw.

Kubina was traded for Stapleton, Exelby, and Stuart. Probably one he would want that one back. But nothing that crippled the organization.

Tlusty for Paradis. That was one he would want back. But given what happened to Tlusty Burke was trading him for his own good. But Burke was able to deal Paradis as part of a package for Versteeg. Which got us a first and a 3rd. Percy and Leivo. Good trade would you not agree now? Both players are going to be vital parts of this rebuild.

Will agree about Grabovski, should have dealt him when he had the chance. He was not worth 5.5 x 5. I was on this one before most here.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Let's discuss the assets first. Before and after. Since this is what I was posting to.

We can go deal by deal to make it easier. Transaction by transaction. You can add any I omitted. But it's pretty accurate here are his biggest trades while Burke was here. Can we agree the assets he gave up were far less value than the ones he got back?

As for the prospects pool Tlusty was our best prospect when he got here. When Burke left we had Rielly, Finn, Leivo, Percy, Colborne, Kadri in the system. Didn't he leave it better than he found it.

I somewhat view those minor moves by Burke as general positives, but they weren't fantastic by any means.

Lebda for Franson & Lombardi - Burke win
Schenn for JVR - Burke win
The Dion Phaneuf trade for scraps - Burke win
Versteeg for a first and a 3rd rd pick - Burke win
Kaberle for a first, 2nd and Colborne - Burke win
Beauchemin for Gardiner and Lupul - Burke win

1. Good move

2. Ending up being good, but Schenn was not a scrap asset by any means. He was one of our most desired trading assets at the time.

3. Stajan was a pretty good player for us the last 2 years. As was Ian White. We got the sexiest name out of the trade but he was never the player for us that he was in Calgary. If we look at Phaneuf's career from 2009 onwards, are we any better off with Phaneuf than we were at the time with Stajan and White?

4. I don't remember enough of this deal to comment. Did we get anyone of substance with those picks? Was the 1st round pick a high or mid, or was it a low 1st round pick in the 20-30 range?

5. Kaberle for Biggs (low 1st round pick in the 20-30 range) and Colborne, right? Colborne did nothing for us, and we'll see about Biggs. But it's hard to get excited about this trade for the moment.

6. Gardiner and Lupul looked good at times, but their legacy with the Leafs is underwhelming. Both look like they could be gone this summer, and neither have any higher trade value than they did when they first arrived.


And you mentioned Rielly, Finn, Leivo, Percy, Colborne, Kadri in the system with Burke left. Rielly and Kadri (or similar prospects) were automatic acquisitions that any GM would've done for Toronto. Finn, Leivo and Percy have not proven anything yet, and are no different from the Justin Pogges, Carlo Colaiacovos, Mikael Tellqvists and Jeff Farkas' of the past.

 

[Kingstonian84*]

@Baystreetbully

I believe the 1st rounder in the Versteeg deal was used to draft Percy, if so solid pick at the time. Percy I don't will make anyone wet themselves in excitement and I don't see him as a top pairing guy BUT I think he can fit in on the mid pairing (notice how I don't use numbers) and play an all around game (kinda like a Odyua or Gunnarsson).

 

[BayStreetBully]

@Baystreetbully

I believe the 1st rounder in the Versteeg deal was used to draft Percy, if so solid pick at the time. Percy I don't will make anyone wet themselves in excitement and I don't see him as a top pairing guy BUT I think he can fit in on the mid pairing (notice how I don't use numbers) and play an all around game (kinda like a Odyua or Gunnarsson).

I suppose it's a solid pick, it's probably the best we could've asked for with a late 1st round pick. I'm definitely of the view that Burke made the right move in getting us that late 1st rounder, but it's not something that would define his time here. Even 5 of these similar type trades wouldn't define Burke's time here.

(Though if Percy could play a part in a Leafs' cup then that changes everything...)

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I somewhat view those minor moves by Burke as general positives, but they weren't fantastic by any means.

Lebda for Franson & Lombardi - Burke win
Schenn for JVR - Burke win
The Dion Phaneuf trade for scraps - Burke win
Versteeg for a first and a 3rd rd pick - Burke win
Kaberle for a first, 2nd and Colborne - Burke win
Beauchemin for Gardiner and Lupul - Burke win

1. Good move

2. Ending up being good, but Schenn was not a scrap asset by any means. He was one of our most desired trading assets at the time.

3. Stajan was a pretty good player for us the last 2 years. As was Ian White. We got the sexiest name out of the trade but he was never the player for us that he was in Calgary. If we look at Phaneuf's career from 2009 onwards, are we any better off with Phaneuf than we were at the time with Stajan and White?

4. I don't remember enough of this deal to comment. Did we get anyone of substance with those picks? Was the 1st round pick a high or mid, or was it a low 1st round pick in the 20-30 range?

5. Kaberle for Biggs (low 1st round pick in the 20-30 range) and Colborne, right? Colborne did nothing for us, and we'll see about Biggs. But it's hard to get excited about this trade for the moment.

6. Gardiner and Lupul looked good at times, but their legacy with the Leafs is underwhelming. Both look like they could be gone this summer, and neither have any higher trade value than they did when they first arrived.


And you mentioned Rielly, Finn, Leivo, Percy, Colborne, Kadri in the system with Burke left. Rielly and Kadri (or similar prospects) were automatic acquisitions that any GM would've done for Toronto. Finn, Leivo and Percy have not proven anything yet, and are no different from the Justin Pogges, Carlo Colaiacovos, Mikael Tellqvists and Jeff Farkas' of the past.

It's important to note, what Nonis has done in the 2 years after Burke was fired, shouldn't be blamed on Burke.

Gardiner had immense value after the Boston series. Now he is saddled with a 20M contract and mediocre play. Not Burke's doing that Shanahan and Nonis devalued him. Same in Lupul with 5 x 5.25M.

The only point I am making is he signed Beauchemin to a very reasonable deal. Say what you want about Burke, but he is a salesman, and I doubt he signs here if Burke was not at the helm.

All it cost was money, and we had tonnes of capspace under Burke. Didn't work out, and he got 2 valuable assets for basically a free wallet, for a player that did not play well here.

This is what Burke did, he turned lesser assets, or in this case no asset until he signed him. Into 2 pretty good assets when he left. This is a good example to defute the posters saying he made this team worse asset wise. This was a win for the Leafs.

 

[BayStreetBully]

It's important to note, what Nonis has done in the 2 years after Burke was fired, shouldn't be blamed on Burke.

Gardiner had immense value after the Boston series. Now he is saddled with a 20M contract and mediocre play. Not Burke's doing that Shanahan and Nonis devalued him. Same in Lupul with 5 x 5.25M.

The only point I am making is he signed Beauchemin to a very reasonable deal. Say what you want about Burke, but he is a salesman, and I doubt he signs here if Burke was not at the helm.

All it cost was money, and we had tonnes of capspace under Burke. Didn't work out, and he got 2 valuable assets for basically a free wallet, for a player that did not play well here.

This is what Burke did, he turned lesser assets, or in this case no asset until he signed him. Into 2 pretty good assets when he left. This is a good example to defute the posters saying he made this team worse asset wise. This was a win for the Leafs.

That's fair enough. Gardiner and Lupul showed what they were capable of at least for a time, and we can't blame Burke if their play has regressed since. I can agree that overall, Burke didn't make this team worse asset wise. Maybe a slight to moderate improvement. But then again, that was never my argument when I said Burke failed miserably here.

 

[diceman934]

Enough of this BS that when Burke arrived he had no prospects:

Jiri Tlusty
Nikolay Kulemin
James Reimer
Korbinian Holzer
Viktor Stalberg
Leo Komarov
Anton Stralman
Carl Gunnarsson
Jimmy Hayes

All prospect when Burke arrived! The above is not nothing...all still playing in the NHL.