So what did Burke achieve?

[BayStreetBully]

Nope, no law degree. I spent 20 years touring the world as a drummer before finishing high school actually.

I just happen to prefer quality discussion to the typical "that guy sucks, trade him for a roll of tape" tripe that often plagues these boards.

I agree with the poster above, that is very cool.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

yes it was Tallon's team. to the point that most of the team was upset that he (Tallon)'s name wasn't going to be on the cup and they all chipped in and bought Tallon a ring. I have always been consistent on this matter. This is why i've been stressing that using the premise "_______ didn't get to finish what he started." isn't a legitimate claim, because a lot of GM's simply don't.

Let's reverse it, okay? In reverse-world, Leafs collapse in game seven - but Nonis makes better moves [still minimal] etc, and they actually duplicate (but are better)
and they make the eastern conference finals. this year, they're where the islanders are more or less, and they somehow make the the Finals, but lose. Is it Burke's team (because they're good?) or is it Nonis's team? I'd very adament that it is still very much Burke's team and he should be getting a tonne of respect and credit for putting the pieces together.

So when the team is on the verse of being put behind the woodshed and being salted and burned - Burke deserves a lot of "this is your doing." as well, not the "well. he set them up, and Nonis failed." Burke can't get praise when the core does well, but nothing but absolution when the team does not


(i know this is long -but i wanted to tie it into the thread)

What happens if Burke was not fired? Million dollar question we can get into later? Once the assets discussion is resolved.

But I don't think he would have did what Nonis ended up doing 100%. We can only speculate on how hard he would have stood by his reluctance for 5+ years deals.

As for your answer, it is consistent. There are not many GM's that could win a Cup from start in the NHL, or certainly in 4 years of managing a team. Burke did change a lot of that Anaheim roster that won the cup, he is justifibly credited with being the GM of that cup winner. Look at how many trades on this roster, in addition of Neidermayer and Pronger.

Without the changes Burke made Anaheim does not win the cup. To be fair, without players he inherited in Getzlaf and Perry Anaheim ANA does not win the cup either. But I do not think it's accurate to say this was solely Murray's team.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0043122007.html

 

[67Cup]

As many have said, Burke increased the depth of the prospect pool, even without a number of high end draft choices which he traded away. The Leafs do have more assets than when he arrived.

The negative side is that he succumbed to either the temptation or the pressure from above, or a combination of the two, to take short cuts in the rebuild.

By the way, one of the things I would love to know was whether Burke wanted to spend more youthful assets on Luongo or whether he was resisting pressure to do just that. I don't know if that had anything to do with his dismissal or not.

While he was in Toronto, he was smack in the centre of hockey's brightest spotlights. That may not be the best thing for a natural showman like Burke. I wish him well in Calgary where constant publicity is not so constant a temptation to a person of his nature.

 

[hotpaws]

we could also compare Burke to one of his peers in south florida who's had roughly the same amount of time to build his team as Burke did but opted for a patient draft rebuild unlike Mr. Impatient Lord Burke

Bjudstad
Barkov
Ekblad
Gudranson
Huberdeau
Trochek
Lou

That's roughly the core , all of which are 23 and younger outside of Lou and are outperforming our vaunted group of assets that Burke assembled . Tallon has also a number of other prospects that have a chance to become solid NHLers .

 

[diceman934]

we could also compare Burke to one of his peers in south florida who's had roughly the same amount of time to build his team as Burke did but opted for a patient draft rebuild unlike Mr. Impatient Lord Burke

Bjudstad
Barkov
Ekblad
Gudranson
Huberdeau
Trochek
Lou

That's roughly the core , all of which are 23 and younger outside of Lou and are outperforming our vaunted group of assets that Burke assembled . Tallon has also a number of other prospects that have a chance to become solid NHLers .

Yes, it would be vastly different now...I do not understand why others can not see just how bad Burke was based on what we do not have.

 

[leafs in five]

What happens if Burke was not fired? Million dollar question we can get into later? Once the assets discussion is resolved.

But I don't think he would have did what Nonis ended up doing 100%. We can only speculate on how hard he would have stood by his reluctance for 5+ years deals.

you were one of the most vocal supporters of the moves Nonis made in his first off season.

 

[hotpaws]

you were one of the most vocal supporters of the moves Nonis made in his first off season.

Nonis cleaned out quite of bit of crap Burke left behind when he took over . Lambo-Komi-TC-Steckel-Army. His problem is he kept trying to build on the rotten core Burke left behind which he was also partially responsible for .

 

[hotpaws]

Yes, it would be vastly different now...I do not understand why others can not see just how bad Burke was based on what we do not have.

It's a combination of people not wanting to admit their loyalty to Burke was misguided or this team is truly as bad as their record indicates as well as a few trolls who are amusing themselves .

 

[Ari91]

It's a combination of people not wanting to admit their loyalty to Burke was misguided or this team is truly as bad as their record indicates as well as a few trolls who are amusing themselves .

I think for some it's a misguided understanding of where the naysayers of Burke are coming from. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Bringing in some good parts that still result in failure as a whole is not enough for some to justify the good when the bad severely outweighs it. The assets we have now were not free. Burke made some good trades...but those trades have assembled a core that is simply not good enough and in the end, the results are what matter. Not to mention, while he made some good trades people need to stop talking as if the man spun straw into gold here. The teams he traded with evaluated their players, systems and cap space differently and what seemed like 'remarkable' trades for the Leafs were just as beneficial to other teams but for different reasons.

The breakdown here is that some people don't want to understand that Burke detractors aren't ignoring the few good trades he made or draft picks he made, they are arguing against the method which set the stages that six years later and the Leafs are not much better for it. Arguably they'd be better off taking their high first round picks and figuring it out within rather than looking to sign/trade for other teams second/third/fourth best options and trying to make it seem like those players will be part of the answer here.