So was Lindros the only one to hold out as a top level pick

[iamjs]

Anyone have an idea of what player salaries were circa 1978-79, and entry level pay?

Brian Hayward, who debuted with the Winnipeg Jets in 1982, made $65k per this wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_player_salaries_in_the_NHL

According to his hockey reference page, he was coming off an average year at Cornell (11-10-1, 3.17) and went undrafted. Could we assume he came in with your typical entry level contract?

I know it's not the original 1978-79, but it's at least a starting point.

 

[BadgerBruce]

.... Yes, and we'd have to consider as well the Ken Linseman lawsuit... who in 1977 signed a contract with the Birmingham Bulls of the WHA prior to his 20th Birthday contravening their rules. Citing the Sherman Act, they won a restraining order against the WHA when a Judge ruled (Connecticut I believe) that because he was over 18 he shouldnt be prohibited from making a living professionally. No, the NHL wasnt named in the suit but it was troubling enough for them that they too followed suit in lowering Draft eligibility age.

This is true -- as far as it goes. To my mind, the much more important court ruling occurred in 1975, with subsequent appeals finally and mercifully ending in early January, 1979. The case? John Tonelli. The issue? Whether an 18 year old could, in Ontario, Canada, void a contract he signed while still a minor. This general scope of contract law deals with what is called "infancy," and in the 1970s it was well established in the US, less so in Canada.

Why do I think this was a significant case? Because Tonelli was represented by Gus Badali, who got him a contract with the WHA Houston Aeros and counseled him to declare his contract with the Jr. A Toronto Marlboros "void" the day he turned 18 in 1975, citing "infancy." Tonelli did just that, walking away from the Marlboro team in March. Truly a groundbreaking legal decision.

Gretzky was represented by the one agent who knew more about infancy and contract law than any other. There are suggestions by some posters that the Gretzkys were perhaps naive and that Skalbania manipulated them into signing a PSC. With Badali as an agent? I find that hard to believe.

There's more: when Gretzky signed a new PSC with Pocklington on his 18th birthday, he had old Peter Puck over a barrel. Imagine if Gretzky had simply "pulled a Tonelli" and, on the day he turned 18, repudiated the contract he'd signed while a minor? That's exactly what Tonelli did in 1975 under Badali's guidance, and the Ontario Court of Appeal upheld Tonelli just weeks before Gretz turned 18.

To my mind, the Gretzkys and Badali were driving the bus here and we're in total control.

 

[Killion]

To my mind, the Gretzkys and Badali were driving the bus here and we're in total control.

Ya, nicely done Badger. Dots all connect.

 

[Fugu]

This is true -- as far as it goes. To my mind, the much more important court ruling occurred in 1975, with subsequent appeals finally and mercifully ending in early January, 1979. The case? John Tonelli. The issue? Whether an 18 year old could, in Ontario, Canada, void a contract he signed while still a minor. This general scope of contract law deals with what is called "infancy," and in the 1970s it was well established in the US, less so in Canada.

Why do I think this was a significant case? Because Tonelli was represented by Gus Badali, who got him a contract with the WHA Houston Aeros and counseled him to declare his contract with the Jr. A Toronto Marlboros "void" the day he turned 18 in 1975, citing "infancy." Tonelli did just that, walking away from the Marlboro team in March. Truly a groundbreaking legal decision.

Gretzky was represented by the one agent who knew more about infancy and contract law than any other. There are suggestions by some posters that the Gretzkys were perhaps naive and that Skalbania manipulated them into signing a PSC. With Badali as an agent? I find that hard to believe.

There's more: when Gretzky signed a new PSC with Pocklington on his 18th birthday, he had old Peter Puck over a barrel. Imagine if Gretzky had simply "pulled a Tonelli" and, on the day he turned 18, repudiated the contract he'd signed while a minor? That's exactly what Tonelli did in 1975 under Badali's guidance, and the Ontario Court of Appeal upheld Tonelli just weeks before Gretz turned 18.

To my mind, the Gretzkys and Badali were driving the bus here and we're in total control.

While interesting, I don't know that I'd buy just because he understood the infancy aspect to minors signing contracts that the Personal Services contract was his brainchild and not Skalbania's, who had other motives that benefited him. I reject the idea that he was somehow driven by Badali.

 

[Fugu]

Ya, nicely done Badger. Dots all connect.

No, they don't.

 

[Killion]

I reject the idea that he was somehow driven by Badali.

Why is that?... You have the Gretzkys' from Brantford, blue collar background, I shouldnt imagine very sophisticated when it comes to such matters... like say Teri Shields who managed daughter Brooke Shields career like she'd been working in the industry for the Ford Modelling Agency and or International Artists for years.... This was all new ground at the time thanks to the WHA. So sure, they wouldve been reliant upon, taking advice from & following whatever route Gus Badali suggested and who as Badger notes had no small amount of experience in that area with Tonelli & the Marlies etc. Badali a guy pushing the envelope, getting creative, building his agency business.

.... and yes, they do. Dots Connect.... Like the Versailles Treaty does to the rise of National Socialism in Germany & WWII.

 

[BadgerBruce]

Someone else posted this link awhile ago, but it needs a re -post here: http://historicalhockey.blogspot.ca/2013/10/the-1979-nhl-expansion-draft.html?m=1

I've reproduced the salient part below:

As I wrote in the notes above, Bengt Gustafsson was one of Edmonton's priority selections (the Oilers were the only team to use all of their available priority selections; the other teams only picked one skater each), however he was ultimately transferred to the Capitals. At issue was a directive the NHL gave the WHA during the merger negotiations: the WHA clubs were to cease all contract negotiations with players effective December 31, 1978 in order to prevent them from stocking up on players in anticipation of the merger. According to Oilers GM Larry Gordon the WHA didn't notify the member clubs' general managers of this directive until March of '79, after the merger was agreed upon. The Oilers signed Gustafsson after the December 31 cutoff date thus NHL President John Ziegler, after the Capitals presented this evidence to him, overruled the Oilers priority claim and transferred Gustafsson to the Capitals on Sept. 15, 1979. This was well after the expansion draft and the reclaim 'draft' so the Oilers had lost Gustafsson*and*the opportunity to reclaim someone else in his place.

Gustafsson was the only player whose rights were caught in this legal loophole. Goalie Hannu Kamppuri was signed by the Oilers in March of '79, and nobody had a problem with that...

OK, so the NHL issued a "Stop Signing Players" directive to the WHA, effective December 31, 1978. We know that the Oilers GM, Larry Gordon, claims that he and other WHA GMs never received this directive until months later. Yet, only the Oilers signed players after this "I know nuffing about day deadline." Gustafsson ' s signing was not recognized and he was awarded to the Caps. Kampurri's signing was ignored. Gretzky's signing resulted in a minor slap.

But we are left with one compelling question: if Gordon is correct and the "stop signing" directive never made it down the food chain, why didn't any other WHA club sign even one player after December 31st, 1978? Further, at that time many player agents, including Badali, represented clients in both leagues and surely would have known about the signing prohibition.

I can't be the only one to be thinking it walks like a duck . . .

 

[Theokritos]

Gustafsson was the only player whose rights were caught in this legal loophole. Goalie Hannu Kamppuri was signed by the Oilers in March of '79, and nobody had a problem with that...

Kamppuri hadn't been drafted by any NHL team, as opposed to Gustafsson, so it's understandable they didn't care about one case while they did care about the other.

if Gordon is correct and the "stop signing" directive never made it down the food chain, why didn't any other WHA club sign even one player after December 31st, 1978?

Do we know that's the case? I mean is it an established fact that no other WHA club signed any player in January-March 1979?

 

[BadgerBruce]

Do we know that's the case? I mean is it an established fact that no other WHA club signed any player in January-March 1979?

Nope, not fully established. All I've got is the words of Mark Parsons from the Historical Hockey website. I'll see what else I can dig up.

 

[Theokritos]

Nope, not fully established. All I've got is the words of Mark Parsons from the Historical Hockey website. I'll see what else I can dig up.

Where does the website state that no other WHA team signed players? The only claim I can find is the following: Gustafsson was the only player whose rights were caught in this legal loophole.

 

[Fugu]

Why is that?... You have the Gretzkys' from Brantford, blue collar background, I shouldnt imagine very sophisticated when it comes to such matters... like say Teri Shields who managed daughter Brooke Shields career like she'd been working in the industry for the Ford Modelling Agency and or International Artists for years.... This was all new ground at the time thanks to the WHA. So sure, they wouldve been reliant upon, taking advice from & following whatever route Gus Badali suggested and who as Badger notes had no small amount of experience in that area with Tonelli & the Marlies etc. Badali a guy pushing the envelope, getting creative, building his agency business.

.... and yes, they do. Dots Connect.... Like the Versailles Treaty does to the rise of National Socialism in Germany & WWII.

Follow the money:

...but it was Racers owner Nelson Skalbania who, on June 12, 1978, signed 17-year-old Gretzky to a seven-year personal services contract worth $1.75 million US.[29][30] <snip> Skalbania opted to have Gretzky sign a personal-services contract rather than a standard player contract in part because he knew a deal to take some WHA teams into the NHL was in the works. He also knew that the Racers could not hope to be included among those teams, and hoped to keep the Racers alive long enough to collect compensation from the surviving teams when the WHA dissolved, as well as any funds earned from selling the young star.[33]
...
Skalbania sold Gretzky, Mio and Driscoll to his former partner, and then-owner of the Edmonton Oilers, Peter Pocklington. Although the announced price was $850,000, Pocklington actually paid $700,000.[31] The money was not enough to keep the Racers alive; they folded that December.[33]

 

[BadgerBruce]

Where does the website state that no other WHA team signed players? The only claim I can find is the following: Gustafsson was the only player whose rights were caught in this legal loophole.

Yup, Parsons is perhaps not 100% clear. But there's also this:
"At issue was a directive the NHL gave the WHA during the merger negotiations: the WHA clubs were to cease all contract negotiations with players effective December 31, 1978." Parsons seems to suggest that the directive was followed, excepting the two instances he cites.

 

[Theokritos]

Yup, Parsons is perhaps not 100% clear. But there's also this:
"At issue was a directive the NHL gave the WHA during the merger negotiations: the WHA clubs were to cease all contract negotiations with players effective December 31, 1978." Parsons seems to suggest that the directive was followed, excepting the two instances he cites.

I don't see him suggesting that.

 

[Killion]

Follow the money:

Yes, Ive read that and I question whether its accurate, to be accepted as fact. Was the PSC the brainchild of Nelson Skalbania or Gus Badali? We just dont know, but Id be very surprised if it was Nelsons, and furthermore, suggests some forward thinking that included certainties that no one could possibly have known for certain. He was a chronic gambler, always quick to take credit for other peoples idea's, revisionist. So yes, question marks loom large over that piece of evidence Councillor. I dont believe this Court should accept it at prima facie. So..... What else ya got?

 

[Fugu]

Yes, Ive read that.... and I question whether its accurate tbh. Was the PSC the brainchild of Nelson Skalbania or Gus Badali? We just dont know, but Id be very surprised if it was Nelsons, and furthermore, suggests some forward thinking that included certainties that no one could possibly have known for certain. He was a chronic gambler, always quick to take credit for other peoples idea's, revisionist. So yes, question marks loom large over that piece of evidence Councillor. I dont believe this Court should accept it. What else ya got?

Yes, but in the absence of proof, you're just picking the side you want to believe, it seems.

I think given how much Skalbania had to gain, and that yes, as an owner of a WHA team, he'd have far more information available about the potential merger than a player agent. I'm far more convinced that it was his brainchild, and that he got his old partner the scoop to do the same with Gretzky when he was sold to Pocklington.

Badali's main interest was in trying to get Gretzky as good a contract as possible. Skalbania was dealing with millions of dollars being leveraged throughout this process. I think I've got a pretty strong case with my follow the money line, counselor.

 

[Killion]

I think given how much Skalbania had to gain, and that yes, as an owner of a WHA team, he'd have far more information available about the potential merger than a player agent. I'm far more convinced that it was his brainchild, and that he got his old partner the scoop to do the same with Gretzky when he was sold to Pocklington.

I see. And you are no doubt aware that both these Gentlemen in question, to whom you accredit this nefarious plot are in fact convicted felons and that criminals are just dumb no?. And yet, you would have me believe that... some fantastical theory, Nelson & Peter Puck..... well, come now... As such, I move that this evidence be stricken from the record entirely. These witnesses thoroughly discredited.... the trail of authorship leads back to Gus Badali & Mike Barnett (who also played in the WHA for Chicago & Houston before an eye injury ended his career in 75), Sierra Sports Group & so on & so forth.

 

[Fugu]

I see. And you are no doubt aware that both these Gentlemen in question, to whom you accredit this nefarious plot are in fact convicted felons and that criminals are just dumb no?. And yet, you would have me believe that... some fantastical theory, Nelson & Peter Puck..... well, come now... As such, I move that this evidence be stricken from the record entirely. These witnesses thoroughly discredited.... the trail of authorship leads back to Gus Badali & Mike Barnett (who also played in the WHA for Chicago & Houston before an eye injury ended his career in 75), Sierra Sports Group & so on & so forth.

That's exactly why it's easy to believe Skalbania came up with the creative contracts, all designed to feather his own nest, subvert others attempts to control a process. Gotta keep your eyes wide open with guys like that. Tell you what.

 

[Killion]

That's exactly why it's easy to believe Skalbania came up with the creative contracts, all designed to feather his own nest, subvert others attempts to control a process. Gotta keep your eyes wide open with guys like that. Tell you what.

Yes of course, but I think your giving him way way way too much credit in understanding & thus being even able to manipulate this situation. He was a hustler, a real estate developer amongst other things. To assume he'd researched all of this and had taken the PSC route as being his own creation when we know that Badali had already forded the river with Tonelli... then no, Im thinkin this was Badali, Skalbania advised by Gus Badali that in order to circumvent & skirt, go with the PSC.

Gretzky was represented by the one agent who knew more about infancy and contract law than any other. There are suggestions by some posters that the Gretzkys were perhaps naive and that Skalbania manipulated them into signing a PSC. With Badali as an agent? I find that hard to believe.

As do I Badger, yet clearly even in the face of so strong a piece of evidence, others do not.... Maybe I should head down to the Wedgewood Hotel in Vancouver that his I believe ex-wife & daughter still run, see if Nelsons around, and if so prolly in Bacchus propping up the bar.... and if I did ask?...
"ya, of course it was my idea...... also responsible for Vanilla Coke.... invented it..... not so good but hey?... wrote the Beatles Magical Mystery Tour...... produced Gone With the Wind...... discovered Insulin".

 

[Fugu]

I'm missing this strong piece of evidence exactly. That he had another client whose contract signed prior to age 18 was found to a loophole to exploit due to age?

 

[Killion]

I'm missing this strong piece of evidence exactly. That he had another client whose contract signed prior to age 18 was found to a loophole to exploit due to age?

Correct. John Tonelli. Gus Badali quite familiar with infancy & contract law.... to assume or accept that Nelson Skalbania came up with this on his lonesome and then passed it on to Peter Pocklington? No, Im sorry, not buying it.

 

[Fugu]

Correct. John Tonelli. Gus Badali quite familiar with infancy & contract law.... to assume or accept that Nelson Skalbania came up with this on his lonesome and then passed it on to Peter Pocklington? No, Im sorry, not buying it.

I see a huge difference between a player contract being exploited with the age loophole and knowing something called a personal services contract could be used in all the ways Skalbania planned to use it. That's why I think it was Skalbania's doing because it benefited him more than anyone else, by far.

 

[Killion]

That's why I think it was Skalbania's doing because it benefited him more than anyone else, by far.

Yes, he did benefit from it tremendously (as did Pocklington later on) which wouldve therefore been a real easy sell for Badali but the real genius of it was... Gretzky was behind the wheel. He could control where he played, who he played for & to a large extent even with. Untouchable really. Eric Lindros didnt go for any such legal chicanery with a crafty agent, no, he played by the rules, took the option to sit. Didnt want to get hooked into a situation whereby back then, he'd essentially be stuck in Quebec until 27 or so which when combined with other issues, just wasnt happenin. Gretzky on the other hand, fine n' dandy with Edmonton and... in the drivers seat.

 

[Fugu]

Yes, he did benefit from it tremendously (as did Pocklington later on) which wouldve therefore been a real easy sell for Badali but the real genius of it was... Gretzky was behind the wheel. He could control where he played, who he played for & to a large extent even with. Untouchable really. Eric Lindros didnt go for any such legal chicanery with a crafty agent, no, he played by the rules, took the option to sit. Didnt want to get hooked into a situation whereby back then, he'd essentially be stuck in Quebec until 27 or so which when combined with other issues, just wasnt happenin. Gretzky on the other hand, fine n' dandy with Edmonton and... in the drivers seat.

Yes, but he went to Indianapolis, and in a lesser league. Lindros didn't want to go to something second rate, let alone third rate.

Anyhoo...

 

[Killion]

Yes, but he went to Indianapolis, and in a lesser league. Lindros didn't want to go to something second rate, let alone third rate.

Anyhoo...

.... true enough, but if he'd been playing by the NHL's rules he'd have played out his Junior career in the Soo and been eligible, made himself available for the NHL Draft & gone wherever he was selected (assume Montreal as they'd acquired the 1st pick from Colorado for his Draft eligibility year) yes?

But no, Wayne was anxious to play at a higher level, professionally, talked of going to Sweden. Wasnt happy playing Junior, not sure of the details exactly but he was having problems with a couple of teammates, just wasnt happy, anxious, impatient to play on a bigger stage, hurry up & get on with his life as is the wont of some, many in fact & specifically of his generation, the 70's. So through the mechanizations of Gus Badali who found a more than willing taker in Nelson Skalbania (desperate for anything to make a mark in Indy & elsewhere).... End run. Wayne Gretzky off the grid. As much in control off the ice as he was on it.

Eric Lindros & Rick Curran, quite conservative in comparison did play by the rules and exercised the only option they had within the bounds of procedure at that time. A player like Lindros who absolutely had Scouts drooling, just no thought whatsoever that he'd been born with a glass jaw, Humpty Dumpty Syndrome. Guy was a Cybernaut. Bulldozer. Scary good. Had it all going for him. Next Gordie Howe. I dont begrudge him for attempting to control his destiny. Thats a right and a privilege we should all have & enjoy. Idealistic but still. If your in demand you can make demands. Cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Gretzky's Personal Service Contract

Details surrounding the signing of Wayne Gretzky's Personal Service contract with Peter Pocklington on his 18th birthday:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/1/26/1270163/happy-birthday-wayne-the-21-year


Seems that the legalities were covered from all perspectives.