Blue Jays Discussion: So long Pillar, and thanks for all the catches

[Longshot]

I'm looking forward to this year. The rotation/bullpen scares me, but we'll have to see what happens.

But, I'm really excited to see how the everyday players develop. Other than Smoak, Morales and Pillar (who pretty much are what they are) every one of the other key players this year has upside and the chance to develop and get better.

Grichuk, Teoscar, McKinney, Gurriel, Jansen and Lyon all have the potential to develop into good players. I'm not saying they will be stars, but they all could be "something."

There's something refreshing about watching this team and seeing what kinds of upsides a bunch of young guys have, versus hoping and praying a bunch of old guys stay healthy/beat father time.

Last year we were all kind of hoping they could be good, but knowing they probably wouldn't be. This year we all know they won't be good, but are hopeful there is progression.

 

[MS]

Dwight Smith Jr. has been crushing it for the O’s and will probably start for them.

Really liked Smith and did not like that they kept Pompey and Davis on the 40-man roster over him.

All the guy did was hit. Is an MLB bat.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Really liked Smith and did not like that they kept Pompey and Davis on the 40-man roster over him.

All the guy did was hit. Is an MLB bat.

I liked Dwight too, though I'm very meh on his future outlook. Best case scenario, he's a poor man's Denard Span.

Also, he's faced the equivalent of what amounts to Double-A pitching this spring, so him "killing it" sis a bit of an overstatement.

 

[phillipmike]

I like the prediction for Grichuk having a big breakout season. I'm guessing 4+ fWAR. Where I'll make a change to that one, though, is that rather than becoming a coveted trade deadline piece, he gets signed to a multi-year extension.

I like the prediction too but its far from bold for me;

If Grichuk had 650PA
2015: 32 HR
2016: 33 HR
2017: 33 HR
2018: 38 HR

Sure i guess its bold because he never reached 30 but that has more to do with splitting time and injuries than actual power or play.

 

[phillipmike]

Jeff Zimmerman’s BOLD Predictions

3. Nick Senzel and Vladimir Guerrero will be top-40 hitters.
According to ADP, Vlad is close to the threshold going 51st overall but Senzel isn’t close at 103rd. I believe both will be up in a couple of weeks and bat 600 times. If I push out their projections to 600 PA, I have them valued as top-40 hitters. I’m sure I could be wrong but with their draft day discounts, I gladly roster them.

10. Danny Jansen will be a top-two catcher.
I like the 23-year-old’s chances to provide some much-needed talent to the barren catcher landscape. He can hit, hit for power, and even run a little. The previous description only applies to one other major league catcher. That’s the reason he’s not number one.

 

[canucksfan]

Really liked Smith and did not like that they kept Pompey and Davis on the 40-man roster over him.

All the guy did was hit. Is an MLB bat.

The problem with Smith, there are too many options that can fill his role. Furthermore, Davis and Pompey can play CF while Smith can't. He'll likely due okay with the O's but the Jays won't really miss him.

 

[Discoverer]

Really liked Smith and did not like that they kept Pompey and Davis on the 40-man roster over him.

All the guy did was hit. Is an MLB bat.

AA at 22 - 111 wRC+
AA at 23 - 108 wRC+
AAA at 24 - 108 wRC+
AAA at 25 - 120 wRC+

Those aren't particularly impressive numbers for a corner OF. I like him, but the Jays have three guys NOT currently on the major league roster (Alford, Davis, Pompey) who fit the 4th OF role better than he does because, while he may be a better hitter, they can all play CF (and provide a little baserunning value, too).

I wish they had been able to keep him because there's value in an average-ish bat, but he was probably 8th on the Jays OF depth chart.

He'll probably be one of the best players for Baltimore, though.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[zeke]

Thornton being a starter first time through the rotation kinda puts the lie to this whole "lookit all our pitching depth" thing, no?

 

[Suntouchable13]

I'm looking forward to this year. The rotation/bullpen scares me, but we'll have to see what happens.

But, I'm really excited to see how the everyday players develop. Other than Smoak, Morales and Pillar (who pretty much are what they are) every one of the other key players this year has upside and the chance to develop and get better.

Grichuk, Teoscar, McKinney, Gurriel, Jansen and Lyon all have the potential to develop into good players. I'm not saying they will be stars, but they all could be "something."

There's something refreshing about watching this team and seeing what kinds of upsides a bunch of young guys have, versus hoping and praying a bunch of old guys stay healthy/beat father time.

Last year we were all kind of hoping they could be good, but knowing they probably wouldn't be. This year we all know they won't be good, but are hopeful there is progression.

This is the least anticipated Jays for me in a long time. I am just not optimistic about this franchise's future. I will barely even watch till the Leafs and Raps are done. It just feel like we're back to being 3rd fiddle in this division, at best, for the next few years. Who knows when that will end?

 

[Discoverer]

Thornton being a starter first time through the rotation kinda puts the lie to this whole "lookit all our pitching depth" thing, no?

The nice part about the pitching depth isn't that it's particularly amazing, it's that it's primarily interesting young pitchers. There are... like... half a dozen more guys in the upper levels of the minors that I would rather see plugged into an injury spot than the standard group of Mat Latoses and Felix Doubronts.

 

[The Nemesis]

The Athletic did an anonymous player poll asking a bunch of questions of MLB players about stuff like the best players in the game, best defender, best/worst cities to visit, rules (DH, shifts, etc) and all that.

Of relevance to us: taking 2nd place in the "most overrated player in the league" question was Marcus Stroman.

(1st was Bryce Harper)

Look at all those people who don't believe in him. It's gotta motivate the **** out of him for this season

 

[zeke]

The nice part about the pitching depth isn't that it's particularly amazing, it's that it's primarily interesting young pitchers. There are... like... half a dozen more guys in the upper levels of the minors that I would rather see plugged into an injury spot than the standard group of Mat Latoses and Felix Doubronts.

doubront was 27 when we picked him up. our new pitching depth guys are mostly in the 25-26 range iirc.

 

[Discoverer]

doubront was 27 when we picked him up. our new pitching depth guys are mostly in the 25-26 range iirc.

Thornton - 25
Pannone - 25
Reid-Foley - 23
Paulino - 25
Perez - 22
Waguespack - 25
Zeuch - 23

 

[zeke]

can't sneak srf and zeuch in there.

and is perez even going to be in AAA?

 

[hoc123]

can't sneak srf and zeuch in there.

and is perez even going to be in AAA?

Why can’t you?

 

[theaub]

The Athletic did an anonymous player poll asking a bunch of questions of MLB players about stuff like the best players in the game, best defender, best/worst cities to visit, rules (DH, shifts, etc) and all that.

Of relevance to us: taking 2nd place in the "most overrated player in the league" question was Marcus Stroman.

(1st was Bryce Harper)

Look at all those people who don't believe in him. It's gotta motivate the **** out of him for this season

Thing that surprised me most about that survey is not a single player said Toronto was the worst place to visit. Figured you'd get at least one customs whiner.

 

[Mach85]

Thing that surprised me most about that survey is not a single player said Toronto was the worst place to visit. Figured you'd get at least one customs whiner.

But muh HBO!

 

[phillipmike]

Why can’t you?

because it doesnt convey the point he wants to make. Its important to cherry pick, geez.

 

[The Nemesis]

Thing that surprised me most about that survey is not a single player said Toronto was the worst place to visit. Figured you'd get at least one customs whiner.

Yeah, I was bracing for it as well. But Toronto did also receive votes in the best place to visit category, and the quoted testimonial was big on how nice metropolitan/diverse/friendly it is.

I guess it goes hand in hand with Montreal claiming 2nd place in the "what city should get an MLB team?" question, barely getting edged out of 1st by Las Vegas (the difference being <2% likley means that we're talking about a difference of 3-5 votes depending on how many of the approximately "one-third of the league" that they talked to answered the question). And the fact that the printed pro-Montreal quotes are flattering to the market and not just "they used to have a team, so they should get one back."

Other fun stuff from the poll:

• Freddy Galvis placed 3rd in best defensive player (1st was Nolan Arenado, 2nd Andrelton Simmons)
• Someone voted "all the prospects" for most overrated
• Joe Maddon just barely missed out on being named both the manager players most wanted to play for and the one they least wanted to play for. He took the positive crown, but finished 2nd on the least liked manager, just 2% back of Gabe Kapler.
• Buck Showalter was 3rd on said undesirable manager voting.
• Someone apparently voted for Kevin Cash entirely because they hate the opener.
• One of the guys in favor of banning the shift said that they should ban it against ".180 with three HRs" but keep it for "guys like Miguel Cabrera and Big Papi" Wha?
• Manny Machado is by far the dirtiest player in the game. He was the only player to receive more than 10% of the vote. He got nearly 65%
• One vote in the "city that most deserves an expansion team" was for Australia. Yes. Seriously.
  
• When pitchers were asked about what player they least want to see charging the mound against them the best answers were "Don't care. Bring it on.", "I don't give a ****." and "I'm not afraid of nobody."

 

[The Nemesis]

But muh HBO!

It's not HBO that's the problem, it's ESPN. We can get HBO just fine here.

If you're gonna mock, do it right!

 

[canucksfan]

The nice part about the pitching depth isn't that it's particularly amazing, it's that it's primarily interesting young pitchers. There are... like... half a dozen more guys in the upper levels of the minors that I would rather see plugged into an injury spot than the standard group of Mat Latoses and Felix Doubronts.

Also important to note that Bucholz isn't ready yet and Borucki is injured.

In about two weeks the depth could be

Stroman
Sanchez
Shoemaker
Borucki
Buchholz
Richard
Thornton
SRF
etc.

 

[hoc123]

Also important to note that Bucholz isn't ready yet and Borucki is injured.

In about two weeks the depth could be

Stroman
Sanchez
Shoemaker
Borucki
Buchholz
Richard
Thornton
SRF
etc.

Hey SRF doesn’t count... for some reason

 

[Anthrax442]

this strikeout was filthy

 

[zeke]

Why can’t you?

SRF and Zeuch are nice in house prospects. SRF has been in the system for years now. That's nice, but it's neither here nor there. we should always have some decent drafted prospects coming up.

But much has been made making all these moves to add all this apparent pitching depth from outside the organiztion, and how that is a much better way to build pitching depth than, say, just adding a bunch of depth vet AAAA arms.

and yet here we are already resorting to a mid 20s guy with 2 mediocre years in AAA to start the season.