so how did Lindholm do?

Ole Gil

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The problem on the defensive end, I think, is about judgement rather than ability. I think he CAN do a good enough job playing defense, he just makes the wrong choice (choosing to do something offensive and risky) a lot when he should make a more 'safe' play.
 

Elsker

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As a segue from Skinner (who I agree is coachable and has already begun to change his game) back to Lindholm, the chemistry those two are showing, both on and apparently off the ice, is one of the few bright spots of the season as it limped to a close. Those two could be one of those legendary pairs in hockey you read about.

Huge Lindholm fan here. Liked the selection and once he got the repeated shoulder injuries that limited the surprisingly physical game he was showing at season's end behind him, he played the body as well as anyone else on the team, particularly among our sticks-only forwards.

If I had to put a name on a jersey right now (which I have done only once before), it would be his. He's that good and I have high expectations that he is really going to be something.
 

RodTheBawd

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I wonder where the posters saying to not let him go to the WJC ran off to? I still wish he could have played the first half of the season in the AHL to avoid some of those injuries, but it's pretty promising that he was able to bounce back and close out the season the way he did. Like some others, I'm very high on him, especially with Skinner. I thought when they first were paired he was trying to be a bit too fancy getting the puck to Skinner, but they got better and better.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I still wish he could have played the first half of the season in the AHL to avoid some of those injuries, but it's pretty promising that he was able to bounce back and close out the season the way he did. Like some others, I'm very high on him, especially with Skinner. I thought when they first were paired he was trying to be a bit too fancy getting the puck to Skinner, but they got better and better.

Agree, but didn't the injury that kind of started it all and linger occur in training camp, even before the NHL season started?
 

RodTheBawd

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Agree, but didn't the injury that kind of started it all and linger occur in training camp, even before the NHL season started?

I believe so, and 2 crunches on the boards early sidelined him. I wasn't expecting the level of... dare I say... grit he has.
 

Elsker

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I believe so, and 2 crunches on the boards early sidelined him. I wasn't expecting the level of... dare I say... grit he has.

Yes, training camp injury that happened early and made him miss a bunch of camp. Then at least two re-injuries of the same shoulder early in the season aggravated the recovery.

One of my favorite Lindholm moments occurred in the Stars game. After a highlight reel Khudobin save on Fiddler, he had gathered the rebound at the left circle and had no less than four Canes jerseys frozen and scattered around the goalie (all with great views of what was about to happen).

When all of a sudden Lindholm swoops in and knocks him off the puck. You know...like we never see anyone wearing a Canes jersey do...well, among our stick-poking forwards, anyway.

I was so proud.
 

Ole Gil

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Yes, training camp injury that happened early and made him miss a bunch of camp. Then at least two re-injuries of the same shoulder early in the season aggravated the recovery.

One of my favorite Lindholm moments occurred in the Stars game. After a highlight reel Khudobin save on Fiddler, he had gathered the rebound at the left circle and had no less than four Canes jerseys frozen and scattered around the goalie (all with great views of what was about to happen).

When all of a sudden Lindholm swoops in and knocks him off the puck. You know...like we never see anyone wearing a Canes jersey do...well, among our stick-poking forwards, anyway.

I was so proud.

I want to say he got hurt in the Rookie Camp, before the WJC's, missed most of traing camp, and kept aggravating it for the first half+ of the season. Was as bad a start physically/luck wise as you could have without a season ending injury.
 

What the Faulk

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He also came into the draft and offseason programs with the shoulder injury. I'm not sure he was ever fully healthy until like halfway through.
 

DaveG

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He also came into the draft and offseason programs with the shoulder injury. I'm not sure he was ever fully healthy until like halfway through.

Yep, I'd say right around when he left for the WJC is when we first started seeing him healthy, and he came back from that tournament a completely different player. Much more confident, assertive on the puck, even if he's not the kind of guy to throw his body around and he may never be that guy.
 

My Special Purpose

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I think Lindholm is in the same boat as the rest of the team, but for mostly different reasons.

I think every guy needs to spend the summer getting stronger and more determined not to get pushed around, and generally to become a much tougher opponent, both physically and mentally. Lindholm is just a kid, so obviously nobody was expecting him to be a monster. But to reach his potential, he's got to get serious about his conditioning, strength, and determination to play in the opponents' end of the ice every shift. I'm not sure hanging out with Jeff Skinner and Ryan Murphy is the best way to do that.
 

Elsker

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I thought Lindholm's use of his body to protect the puck was starting to rub off on Skinner toward the end of the season.

So maybe the influence is going the other way. I'd keep those two together...on and off the ice.
 

nobuddy

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I think Lindholm is in the same boat as the rest of the team, but for mostly different reasons.

I think every guy needs to spend the summer getting stronger and more determined not to get pushed around, and generally to become a much tougher opponent, both physically and mentally. Lindholm is just a kid, so obviously nobody was expecting him to be a monster. But to reach his potential, he's got to get serious about his conditioning, strength, and determination to play in the opponents' end of the ice every shift. I'm not sure hanging out with Jeff Skinner and Ryan Murphy is the best way to do that.

Skinner trains harder in the offseason than anyone else we have on a yearly basis.
 

RodTheBawd

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I think Lindholm is in the same boat as the rest of the team, but for mostly different reasons.

I think every guy needs to spend the summer getting stronger and more determined not to get pushed around, and generally to become a much tougher opponent, both physically and mentally. Lindholm is just a kid, so obviously nobody was expecting him to be a monster. But to reach his potential, he's got to get serious about his conditioning, strength, and determination to play in the opponents' end of the ice every shift. I'm not sure hanging out with Jeff Skinner and Ryan Murphy is the best way to do that.

What...???
 

Vagrant

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In regards to Skinner it seems like some people here are confusing defensive ability and willingness to play defense. This has troubled me. Because it's not always a matter of effort with being able to play defense. He can't try harder and make it all go away. It can help, but it can't absolve the fact that he's just not as talented in that aspect of the game as he is in others. The good news is that it's not effort in my opinion that's holding him back, which means that as he grows it will become mitigated by him learning. If the effort isn't there (re: Ovechkin) then you're not going to fix it. Skinner being a poor defensive player has nothing to do with his level of conditioning or his effort and far too often all those things are thrown in a big basket together. They're all things that are mutually exclusive from one another that are either aided or made worse by the presence or lack of each individually. Conditioning isn't Skinner's problem. Hustle isn't his problem. He's just not good defensively. It makes you appreciate, to bring this full circle, the players that are able to jump into the league with an already mature defensive game like Lindholm.

Another thing that is odd is when people assume development to be linear and critique the approach as if there is some sort of guideline to develop a player perfectly. It's just not out there. And this is part of the reason that I don't *believe* in the idea of a player being forced to bust. That's an apology for the individual's ability to adapt. Had Lindholm been of the mind to make excuses instead of working on his game, he could have easily had a season worth apologizing for and made a fool of management for believing in his ability to play up. He got hurt a few times. That could have been all it took. Boychuk in his first season under contract for us when he went all through camp with that wrist injury is an example here. The common theme being at the time that it was management that made the mistake of not crafting a perfect situation for him to climb comfortably into. Had he really been NHL material then that adversity probably would have set him back for a little while as he adjusted and turned it into a positive. You find out what you have in a prospect when they face their first bit of adversity. Until then you're largely delaying the inevitable and hoping that the biggest development a player makes is between the ears in learning the type of approach it takes on a daily basis to have NHL success. Lindholm worked well through his challenges because he has it. That innate ability that you want in a kid to be able to face up to challenges and not only overcome them but thrive as a result. There is no second half Lindholm without October-November Lindholm. You couldn't have gotten him from point A to point B without him needing to break it and put it all back together again. The forgotten moments of the season leading to misnomers like post-WJC-Lindholm when in truth his development was already trending positively before then. He had 4 points in 3 games and was getting about 14-15 minutes a game prior to the December 12th game, his last before his departure for the U20s. It wasn't as if we sent him away and he came back as superman. He just used it to continue his momentum of trending positively.

Usage was another big part of his development. They had to learn what they had in him. They wanted him to play the halfwall on the PP because of his smarts and passing ability. In fact they birthrighted it to him from the very first game of the season. It took a while before they realized that Lindholm is much better on the goal line and in front of the net. Especially behind the goal line. Once they stopped telling him where to play and let his play tell them where he needed to be, there was a marked increase in his output from a non-tangible standpoint as well as on the scoresheet. It started to come together a bit more for the whole unit. There was too much time for him to think on the halfwall. Too many options. Being the liaison between the puck going deep and the puck going back to the point is a pretty challenging job and it takes an incredibly mature feel that Lindholm hasn't yet grasped. Putting him on the goal line allowed him to simplify and take the puck to the net and make good things happen without being too concerned about being the engine of the unit. The little things are going to come, but until they do it's important not to force a square peg into a round hole.

I am of the opinion that Lindholm had a tremendous season and even if statistically it could have been better, it was a season like I wanted for him. To get his feet wet, learn that he can play up here, have enough offensive success to not be frustrated with the lack of it, and to continue to progress an already fantastic defensive approach. It will be important to scale expectations realistically with him because the skillset isn't overwhelming and I agree with BleedGreen's uncertainty about his statistical upside. I would be happy with 40 points next season and hopefully a lot more shots on net as his deft hands were certainly on display a number of times this year but not nearly enough as relative to some of our other guys who shot far more than their skill dictated. For Lindholm to only have roughly a shot and a quarter per game it's a miracle he almost hit double digits in scoring with only 70 shots. I want to see that number double next season regardless of how frequently it goes in.
 

Stormie

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Not trying to make this a Skinner thread, but in terms of his defensive ability vs defensive effort. I think the fault lies along effort, or has historically. He would routinely cheat in our zone, hoping someone would give him a quick outlet pass for a 1-on-1 or breakaway. When he was back on the play, his man would easily get free as he looped around conserving energy for when the puck was on his stick again.

However, I don't know if it was the staff or Lindholm that guided him later on in the season into becoming more defensive minded. But he was definitely back on the play the last couple of months. I don't expect him to lay the body like Harrison would, but he should at least make the attempt to take away the play. Lindholm did this pretty well and I think it could have rub off on Skinner to a degree.
 

HisIceness

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I was impressed. Obviously he wasn't the goal scorer Skinner was in '10-11 but Lindholm seems to be a guy that will do the little things that will help win games.

Time will tell but right now I think he was the right pick, even though I badly wanted Nichushkin. I have high hopes he will be a player we will want to hang onto.
 

rocky7

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Lindholm is a good example of the discussion in the other thread about size and toughness. for his size and strength he does alright along the boards. he hits, wins some battles and is willing to take a hit to make a play. good example of attitude and effort and tenacity, etc., unlike others.
 

Vagrant

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With all the connections on this team to Gabriel Landeskog it would be interesting to see what would happen if the Avs were silly enough to ever make him available or let him walk. I remember clamoring for Carolina to trade up to take him after he went out of his way to come watch Skinner play for the Hurricanes and learning how close they are. Now Lindholm too being mentioned with him. Not to mention Ryan Murphy. Not sure if they have a relationship of any kind but one would assume. One of those names that seems to float around our players a lot. We tend to rely on those kind of relationships to get talent here.
 

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