Post-Game Talk: Snow Bros vs. DC Bros. 7pm. Verizon Center. 10.18.2016 (The Bro Edition)

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txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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I still think the Iggy fight was... odd.

Now if Willy was trying to goad him into a 'gator, or get him off the ice for 5, great job kid. But did we really need him doing that in the 3rd game of the season, with a lead vs a team B2B on the road, vs a guy that can crank him one proper on the jaw?

Iggy:

It's just not often you see a teams tough guy show he wants to fight a high skill guy, only to try to back out? at the last moment.

sure. iginla is not backstrom first of all. as mentioned he got in eller's face and wilson is about not letting players do that. right? you would rather Wilson let that go? secondly the coach standing behind the bench who tells the "team tough guy" no. you need to play and not sit in the box.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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May 2, 2013
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But it's not really just a slogan on a bathrobe. It's a point of focus they're trying to get everyone to buy into by rewarding someone nightly. These things carry meaning within organizations of any kind and they usually show up when there are morale or motivation issues. We know that was a problem last year and it's clear management is trying to address it. It had better mean something to them, but at the same time I have concerns about the wording/concept.

If they're enacting a team-wide incentive program and it's perceived as just a slogan on a robe then there's a big problem with the way the players respond to leadership, and that means there's a fatal misread by the coaching staff as to where this team's collective head will be in 2017.

I think you're reading too much into this. Usually these things mean nothing, and it's not like "Will over skill" is written everywhere in the dressing rooms at Verizon Center or Kettler.

The Habs have this famous slogan written in capital letters in all their facilities.

a4a1459be4b4b61ccf0bfce4032ee4a1.jpg


No excuses? Yeah right, they only have excuses when they fail. These slogans are meaningless.
 

txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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But it's not really just a slogan on a bathrobe. It's a point of focus they're trying to get everyone to buy into by rewarding someone nightly. These things carry meaning within organizations of any kind and they usually show up when there are morale or motivation issues..

really. the caps have had a version of this every season. I think you are reading too much here. its their game ball, player of the game.
 

g00n

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I know all about these things. I'm not questioning the incentive concept. I'm telling you why it's worded poorly and why it might be a problem.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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I know all about these things. I'm not questioning the incentive concept. I'm telling you why it's worded poorly and why it might be a problem.

Ok, I agree on the wording. It won't make a difference though, the players' most likely don't pay as much attention to the slogan as you do.
 

g00n

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Ok, I agree on the wording. It won't make a difference though, the players' most likely don't pay as much attention to the slogan as you do.

I don't think we can say that for sure. Again, these types of things are often pushed in order to make them part of the culture. ****, whatsisname put a damn crazy Abe Lincoln dawg or something on his goalie mask because of it. :laugh:
 

Alexander the Gr8

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I don't think we can say that for sure. Again, these types of things are often pushed in order to make them part of the culture. ****, whatsisname put a damn crazy Abe Lincoln dawg or something on his goalie mask because of it. :laugh:

I'd change the slogan to "Hustle your butts off komrades or we'll cut your ice time". That should get the message through :)
 
Sep 19, 2008
373,975
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Will over skill is just one of the slogans they do just like one pursuit or that thing where they put Roman numerals on they hats to indicate the games till the cup. Don't read too much into it.
 

txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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Until they win the Cup and prove they aren't mentally fragile in the playoffs or as frontrunners, yeah

Sure, they have probably already lost, but if the writing on the post game game ball award is what you have, its getting pretty slim. Cant we go back to Trotz is the wrong coach and because Orpik?
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,431
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I know they won but...."Will over Skill"? That sounds like a try-hard anthem.

I know our o-first fans are not going to like that and tbh I don't think I like it, either. Maybe there's some background reference to a speech I'm missing but you can't "want" or "will" your way to championships. Not without the necessary skills and the ability to unlock them under pressure.
It's from a Muhammad Ali quote (hence the boxing robe after their wins):
“Champions aren’t made in gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them – a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill.”
Boxing is an individual sport of course (trainers and the like aside) and Ali also had amazing skills the likes of which had hardly existed at heavyweight. The slogan isn't ideal and is an oversimplification but the full quote is better and works as a motivator potentially. Given past history it seems unlikely they're on their way to conquering the mental on their own and, indeed, it's not so much X over Y so as to minimize Y but X needing to be stronger. There's a difference perhaps lost in how that was boiled down.

Burakovsky has consulted a sports psychologist to greater apparent consistency early on. Kuznetsov probably needs to do the same and there are probably many more that could. A slogan by nature is oversimplified and dumbed down but it's probably less important what the message is on the surface than how that's interpreted and applied organizationally (assuming it's even that important). I tend to doubt there's a universal conceptual understanding and that's part of the problem in a team sport. The issue has been applying their energy more effectively, particularly offensively and as a team. It's not as if they haven't wanted it individually...ever. They just haven't channelled it or often had the depth to stack up. This is where decision-making comes into play and how there needs to be as much common ground with the puck and in distributing as there is defensively away from the puck. Refining those on the puck instincts are a massive component in unlocking their potential 5-on-5.

If will is taken seriously as a daily motivator then it's not a bad mantra. It is on them ultimately and their determination but not just in selected moments but in their daily habits. Ali didn't just own the big moments, he also trained like a mother****er and developed great skills. They aren't so naturally talented as a group to pull off the comparison. They still need to iron out their technique in some crucial ways before reverting to a mostly fixed competitive mindset. It's maybe an okay motivator potentially but without more behind the scenes work of course that in itself isn't the answer. The answer always tends to be in how that will is applied and refined rather than some sheer superior reserve of it naturally leading to success.
 
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Alexander the Gr8

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Toronto
It's from a Muhammad Ali quote (hence the boxing robe after their wins):

Boxing is an individual sport of course (trainers and the like aside) and Ali also had amazing skills the likes of which had hardly existed at heavyweight. The slogan isn't ideal and is an oversimplification but the full quote is better and works as a motivator potentially. Given past history it seems unlikely they're on their way to conquering the mental on their own and, indeed, it's not so much X over Y so as to minimize Y but X needing to be stronger. There's a difference perhaps lost in how that was boiled down.

Burakovsky has consulted a sports psychologist to greater apparent consistency early on. Kuznetsov probably needs to do the same and there are probably many more that could. A slogan by nature is oversimplified and dumbed down but it's probably less important what the message is on the surface than how that's interpreted and applied organizationally (assuming it's even that important). I tend to doubt there's a universal conceptual understanding and that's part of the problem in a team sport. The issue has been applying their energy more effectively, particularly offensively and as a team. It's not as if they haven't wanted it individually...ever. They just haven't channelled it or often had the depth to stack up. This is where decision-making comes into play and how there needs to be as much common ground with the puck and in distributing as there is defensively away from the puck. Refining those on the puck instincts are a massive component in unlocking their potential 5-on-5.

If will is taken seriously as a daily motivator then it's not a bad mantra. It is on them ultimately and their determination but not just in selected moments but in their daily habits. Ali didn't just own the big moments, he also trained like a mother****er and developed great skills. They aren't so naturally talented as a group to pull off the comparison. They still need to iron out their technique in some crucial ways before reverting to a mostly fixed competitive mindset. It's maybe an okay motivator potentially but without more behind the scenes work of course that in itself isn't the answer. The answer always tends to be in how that will is applied and refined rather than some sheer superior reserve of it naturally leading to success.

Jeez, is there something you don't know Langway?

I have one question for you: What's the answer to life, the universe and everything?
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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It's from a Muhammad Ali quote (hence the boxing robe after their wins):

Boxing is an individual sport of course (trainers and the like aside) and Ali also had amazing skills the likes of which had hardly existed at heavyweight. The slogan isn't ideal and is an oversimplification but the full quote is better and works as a motivator potentially. Given past history it seems unlikely they're on their way to conquering the mental on their own and, indeed, it's not so much X over Y so as to minimize Y but X needing to be stronger. There's a difference perhaps lost in how that was boiled down.

Burakovsky has consulted a sports psychologist to greater apparent consistency early on. Kuznetsov probably needs to do the same and there are probably many more that could. A slogan by nature is oversimplified and dumbed down but it's probably less important what the message is on the surface than how that's interpreted and applied organizationally (assuming it's even that important). I tend to doubt there's a universal conceptual understanding and that's part of the problem in a team sport. The issue has been applying their energy more effectively, particularly offensively and as a team. It's not as if they haven't wanted it individually...ever. They just haven't channelled it or often had the depth to stack up. This is where decision-making comes into play and how there needs to be as much common ground with the puck and in distributing as there is defensively away from the puck. Refining those on the puck instincts are a massive component in unlocking their potential 5-on-5.

If will is taken seriously as a daily motivator then it's not a bad mantra. It is on them ultimately and their determination but not just in selected moments but in their daily habits. Ali didn't just own the big moments, he also trained like a mother****er and developed great skills. They aren't so naturally talented as a group to pull off the comparison. They still need to iron out their technique in some crucial ways before reverting to a mostly fixed competitive mindset. It's maybe an okay motivator potentially but without more behind the scenes work of course that in itself isn't the answer. The answer always tends to be in how that will is applied and refined rather than some sheer superior reserve of it naturally leading to success.


Aha, thanks. Thought it might be something like that hence the caveat about possibly being from a speech etc. The context makes it much better, imo.
 

trick9

Registered User
Jun 2, 2013
12,222
5,266
I still think the Iggy fight was... odd.

Now if Willy was trying to goad him into a 'gator, or get him off the ice for 5, great job kid. But did we really need him doing that in the 3rd game of the season, with a lead vs a team B2B on the road, vs a guy that can crank him one proper on the jaw?

Iggy:

It's just not often you see a teams tough guy show he wants to fight a high skill guy, only to try to back out? at the last moment.

Iginla started it by mouthing at Wilson, and the fight happened for 1 of 2 possible reasons:

1) Iginla is a smart player. Their team had nothing going so he goes and tries to get some momentum.

2) Payback from Iginla for last season when Wilson tried to take Zadorov's head off.
 

troyerlaw

Life is party again
Dec 13, 2010
12,487
6,596
Los Angeles
I still think the Iggy fight was... odd.

Now if Willy was trying to goad him into a 'gator, or get him off the ice for 5, great job kid. But did we really need him doing that in the 3rd game of the season, with a lead vs a team B2B on the road, vs a guy that can crank him one proper on the jaw?

It's just not often you see a teams tough guy show he wants to fight a high skill guy, only to try to back out? at the last moment.

Iggy was the instigator. As the subsequent penalty allocation showed.

Iggy has been in a pissy, agitating mood this season. I don't know if he is acting on new coach's orders or what. I watched him night before v. Pens, and he got into it with Kunitz over nothing at all. Just playing angry and thin-skinned.

Which is fine. Just seems odd for Iggy. He used to be a guy who lost his temper only once in a while, but when he did, watch out. He'd knock you down AND scored twice.

Last night he just seemed yappy. (And clunky with the puck movement on the PP.)

Still a Hall of Famer, no question, but I don't put any of last night's interaction on Wilson.
 

4thTierSport

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Feb 15, 2009
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Good ol' NHL. That is the fight they throw out the Instigator on. Not on the guys that are flying after someone for a clean or semi border line hit.

I think that was all Iggy. Wilson even seemed a bit confused and hesitant at first.
 

Alexander the Gr8

Registered User
May 2, 2013
31,814
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Toronto
Iggy was the instigator. As the subsequent penalty allocation showed.

Iggy has been in a pissy, agitating mood this season. I don't know if he is acting on new coach's orders or what. I watched him night before v. Pens, and he got into it with Kunitz over nothing at all. Just playing angry and thin-skinned.

Which is fine. Just seems odd for Iggy. He used to be a guy who lost his temper only once in a while, but when he did, watch out. He'd knock you down AND scored twice.

Last night he just seemed yappy. (And clunky with the puck movement on the PP.)

Still a Hall of Famer, no question, but I don't put any of last night's interaction on Wilson.

I'd be pissed too if I was about to end my hall of fame career on a team that has no shot at the Cup, ending my hopes to finally win a championship.
 

RandyHolt

Keep truckin'
Nov 3, 2006
34,812
7,145
thanks for sharing opines on Iggy

I don't think the Iggmeister normally has a hard time reading if a guy wants to fight or not. I think Willy is the one that didn't know if he wanted to go or not. His actions certainly looked a little of both.

He got injured in preseason. What was that injury? He did cut back on the fights last year, and may have caught himself at the last moment, trying to again this year.
 

Zoidberg Jesus

Trotzkyist
Oct 25, 2011
3,814
0
Getting a team on back to backs but the Caps looked fantastic tonight.

Varly never looks could against them, I wonder why they always start him?

Varly has a .950 sv% against the Caps, which is his highest against any opponent. 2-3 record against us, but it's not for lack of effort on his part.
 

Ridley Simon

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Feb 27, 2002
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But it's not really just a slogan on a bathrobe. It's a point of focus they're trying to get everyone to buy into by rewarding someone nightly. These things carry meaning within organizations of any kind and they usually show up when there are morale or motivation issues. We know that was a problem last year and it's clear management is trying to address it. It had better mean something to them, but at the same time I have concerns about the wording/concept.

If they're enacting a team-wide incentive program and it's perceived as just a slogan on a robe then there's a big problem with the way the players respond to leadership, and that means there's a fatal misread by the coaching staff as to where this team's collective head will be in 2017.

I think you are reading too much into it dude.

The Hard Hat was for the player that performed over usual expectations. I think the "Will over Skill" robe is the same thing. A player that performs over his normal expectation. His Will was showing over his normal "Skill".

Like Grubi getting his first ever shutout.
Like Winnik getting 2 goals in a game (when he usually gets 2 a quarter season)
 
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