Speculation: Smyth wants to work with Oilers

[rboomercat90]

Ua

EIG is a total different problem in Oiler history. They kept the Oilers in Edmonton. Do not forget this. They had a budget, and the Canadian dollar was at some points less than 60% U.S. . They could not afford players, and that was the reality. Today, Katz has another business, and is a billionaire. He has put Edmonton back on the map at least with a modern arena and revitalizing the downtown.

EIG did the best they could, with what they had. I, had a lot of problems with the Smytty trade. Only 100k apart and you pulled the plug? That is crazy, but Lowe said it was his decision and he made it. Bad call, really. Smytty was true copper and blue. Should have worn the C, instead of Moreau. No locker room cancer then. It really affected the rebuild. However, the past can't be changed.

Before free agency, many players had a lot of loyalty to the team they were with. They didn't want to change colours. Now, most players are only loyal to the colour green. I do not accuse Smytty of this. He was not asking exorbitant amounts of money. Weight left, and got a lot more money than Smytty was asking, and no small amount of points for Weight came off of Smytty's back. It still galls me today that Weight got the cup, and Smytty didn't. Many on here laud Weight as a great Captain, but other than the streak, he didn't really do much. We never won a cup with him. We never beat Dallas with him. Edmonton accomplished much more in the 90's than they did with Dougie as Captain. Really, those were dark days. I find it funny that many on here remember Dougie with reverence, and then won't give Smytty his due. Dougie was a passer, wouldn't go to the dirty areas, and Ryan did all that, and more. Far better player IMHO.

As an outsider to the locker room Ryan Smyth should have been a team captain at some point. For years he was the team's best player, face of the franchise and longest serving player. Along with many other positive attributes that have been mentioned often in this thread. Yet he was never at anytime considered by the team for the captaincy. I don't know why he wasn't but I always found it odd. It made me wonder if the organization felt he was missing either leadership qualities or some other intangibles that were necessary for being in that role and representing the team. Maybe he wasn't respected enough by his teammates. It sure was odd too that when he retired only a couple teammates bothered attending. By all rights Smyth should have been a captain and yet he never was. I can only assume there was a reason for that. It's because of this I question what kind of functional role he could play on the team.

 

[Narnia]

As an outsider to the locker room Ryan Smyth should have been a team captain at some point. For years he was the team's best player, face of the franchise and longest serving player. Along with many other positive attributes that have been mentioned often in this thread. Yet he was never at anytime considered by the team for the captaincy. I don't know why he wasn't but I always found it odd. It made me wonder if the organization felt he was missing either leadership qualities or some other intangibles that were necessary for being in that role and representing the team. Maybe he wasn't respected enough by his teammates. It sure was odd too that when he retired only a couple teammates bothered attending. By all rights Smyth should have been a captain and yet he never was. I can only assume there was a reason for that. It's because of this I question what kind of functional role he could play on the team.

Wasn't one of the reasons Smyth was named captain after Dougie left that there would be too much pressure on him.

 

[redgrant]

Coaching now is completely different from 20 years ago. Analytics plays a huge part. Smythy doesnt seem like an advanced stats guy.

 

[Bangers]

As an outsider to the locker room Ryan Smyth should have been a team captain at some point. For years he was the team's best player, face of the franchise and longest serving player. Along with many other positive attributes that have been mentioned often in this thread. Yet he was never at anytime considered by the team for the captaincy. I don't know why he wasn't but I always found it odd. It made me wonder if the organization felt he was missing either leadership qualities or some other intangibles that were necessary for being in that role and representing the team. Maybe he wasn't respected enough by his teammates. It sure was odd too that when he retired only a couple teammates bothered attending. By all rights Smyth should have been a captain and yet he never was. I can only assume there was a reason for that. It's because of this I question what kind of functional role he could play on the team.

I don't know how much it plays into it, but I used to run into the Oilers a lot and Weight and Grier were the definite 'guys' off the ice that all the other Oilers seemed to respect and listen to.

Hardly ever saw Smyth out with the rest of the team.

 

[tiger_80]

Wasn't one of the reasons Smyth was named captain after Dougie left that there would be too much pressure on him.

Smyth may not have been a dominant enough personality. Hard worker who sacrificed his body and led by example, but not a vocal leader, a punishing physical force or a true game changer. One also has to consider the context. Jason Smith was a captain from early 2000s and then Horcoff--who whatever he flaws was probably better captain material than Ryan Smyth.

 

[Replacement*]

As an outsider to the locker room Ryan Smyth should have been a team captain at some point. For years he was the team's best player, face of the franchise and longest serving player. Along with many other positive attributes that have been mentioned often in this thread. Yet he was never at anytime considered by the team for the captaincy. I don't know why he wasn't but I always found it odd. It made me wonder if the organization felt he was missing either leadership qualities or some other intangibles that were necessary for being in that role and representing the team. Maybe he wasn't respected enough by his teammates. It sure was odd too that when he retired only a couple teammates bothered attending. By all rights Smyth should have been a captain and yet he never was. I can only assume there was a reason for that. It's because of this I question what kind of functional role he could play on the team.

Don't agree with this.

One reason Smyth may not have been the most liked player is he dared to offer critical evaluation of team mates play and what they could do to improve their game. The classic example being telling Hemsky "you don't have to play with blinders on out there" This was a cutting remark on Hemskys penchant to try to go through 3 players instead of passing off or working a give and go. Smyth was correct and it limited Hemskys efficacy not having more puck possession instinct in his game. But Hemsky refused to listen and was pretty much a model for subsequent players also not listening.

Additionally Smyth laid it all out on the ice and made himself vulnerable. He was the classic take a hit to make a play type of guy. A guy going the extra mile and leaving it all on the ice. A lot of players that are less dedicated tend to avoid players like that if they don't want to adopt that.

I can never forget that when the Oil obtained Hendricks Smyth would glow at his play. As if finally there was another player on the team that would consistently play through the pain. Few in this org have been willing.

As far as the org those of us that are older know that the Org actually stated that they felt it more important to keep Smyth than Weight and Guerin. That says miles about what the org at that time thought of Smyth.

Finally, Smyth leads a Christian/abstaining life as does Yakupov. In the pro sports world this tends to isolate you from the broader team and boys nights out and such frivolity. You can even end up being the subject of derision for not joining in. If anything its a sad commentary on team pro sports that an athlete seemingly needs to party with team mates to fit in and be fully accepted.

 

[Replacement*]

I don't know how much it plays into it, but I used to run into the Oilers a lot and Weight and Grier were the definite 'guys' off the ice that all the other Oilers seemed to respect and listen to.

Hardly ever saw Smyth out with the rest of the team.

Smyth isn't a drinker. How on earth should that be a focus of criticism?

Smyth was always at team charitable functions and represented the logo everywhere. The suggestion that Smyth wasn't involved with team mates off the ice is laughable. He was the first person to open his doors to have players living with him. He still is.

 

[rboomercat90]

Smyth may not have been a dominant enough personality. Hard worker who sacrificed his body and led by example, but not a vocal leader, a punishing physical force or a true game changer. One also has to consider the context. Jason Smith was a captain from early 2000s and then Horcoff--who whatever he flaws was probably better captain material than Ryan Smyth.

Horcoff wasn't the captain until after Smyth was gone.

 

[OF17]

Good organizations make room for their Ryan Smyths. It breeds loyalty, commitment to the organization, and a sense that you, as a player, will be taken care of far beyond the obligatory.

I am not arguing that any old Kurtis Foster should get this treatment, nor am I saying that we should make Smyth GM, but if he wants to do some scouting work, why not? If he wants to travel around junior leagues giving pointers to our draft picks, why not? Similarly with a community liaison position, or a strength and conditioning assistant, or whatever. It can only help, and it sends a message to the Halls and Eberles of the world that if they lay it all on the table for us like Smyth did, they'll be taken care of. Remember how impressed they were with how Smyth's final game was treated? Keep those feelings flowing.

 

[CanadianCommie]

I like the idea of having Ryan Smyth cut his teeth in either development (regionally traveling to help out our guys in the WHL) or having some assistant role with the Oil Kings and then graduate up to the Oilers from there.

As much as he's a former oiler and there's a lot of hesitancy with the Old Boys Club...he's a guy who could have a great positive influence on things like work ethic and the pro mentality and even some hand-eye coordination stuff.

 

[Samus44]

Good organizations make room for their Ryan Smyths. It breeds loyalty, commitment to the organization, and a sense that you, as a player, will be taken care of far beyond the obligatory.

I am not arguing that any old Kurtis Foster should get this treatment, nor am I saying that we should make Smyth GM, but if he wants to do some scouting work, why not? If he wants to travel around junior leagues giving pointers to our draft picks, why not? Similarly with a community liaison position, or a strength and conditioning assistant, or whatever. It can only help, and it sends a message to the Halls and Eberles of the world that if they lay it all on the table for us like Smyth did, they'll be taken care of. Remember how impressed they were with how Smyth's final game was treated? Keep those feelings flowing.

 

[Master Lok]

Coaching now is completely different from 20 years ago. Analytics plays a huge part. Smythy doesnt seem like an advanced stats guy.

Sure is coaching is different that 20 years ago. Glad that no one here is suggesting that Smyth become head coach tomorrow.

If he wants to coach - then certainly like anyone, Smyth can Learn.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Don't agree with this.

One reason Smyth may not have been the most liked player is he dared to offer critical evaluation of team mates play and what they could do to improve their game. The classic example being telling Hemsky "you don't have to play with blinders on out there" This was a cutting remark on Hemskys penchant to try to go through 3 players instead of passing off or working a give and go. Smyth was correct and it limited Hemskys efficacy not having more puck possession instinct in his game. But Hemsky refused to listen and was pretty much a model for subsequent players also not listening.

Additionally Smyth laid it all out on the ice and made himself vulnerable. He was the classic take a hit to make a play type of guy. A guy going the extra mile and leaving it all on the ice. A lot of players that are less dedicated tend to avoid players like that if they don't want to adopt that.

I can never forget that when the Oil obtained Hendricks Smyth would glow at his play. As if finally there was another player on the team that would consistently play through the pain. Few in this org have been willing.

As far as the org those of us that are older know that the Org actually stated that they felt it more important to keep Smyth than Weight and Guerin. That says miles about what the org at that time thought of Smyth.

Finally, Smyth leads a Christian/abstaining life as does Yakupov. In the pro sports world this tends to isolate you from the broader team and boys nights out and such frivolity. You can even end up being the subject of derision for not joining in. If anything its a sad commentary on team pro sports that an athlete seemingly needs to party with team mates to fit in and be fully accepted.

Yak's Muslim, but splitting hairs

Basically half my staff when I was running the hockey store had second jobs at a bar as bouncers. After Scrivens had the 59 save shutout against the Sharks, the boys all went out afterward. Scrivens was not among them. The guys were in awe about his play, but - and this is all hearsay - when someone asked if Ben was coming, one of the Oilers replied - 'Of course not, he's a ****ing nerd!'

Choosing to abstain in hockey culture can make you a bit of a pariah, there's no mistaking that. Even if you don't drink or aren't partying, you're still expected to go out and hang out with the boys.

 

[Samus44]

Yak's Muslim, but splitting hairs

Basically half my staff when I was running the hockey store had second jobs at a bar as bouncers. After Scrivens had the 59 save shutout against the Sharks, the boys all went out afterward. Scrivens was not among them. The guys were in awe about his play, but - and this is all hearsay - when someone asked if Ben was coming, one of the Oilers replied - 'Of course not, he's a ****ing nerd!'

Choosing to abstain in hockey culture can make you a bit of a pariah, there's no mistaking that. Even if you don't drink or aren't partying, you're still expected to go out and hang out with the boys.

Smyth was tight with the old Oilers of the 90's. He was very much a team guy i have no idea where this comes from. I know a guy who used to play gigs for some of the Oiler after parties and Smyth he said was a real nice guy who even bought him a drink. I also met Smyth a couple times and both were random and both times he cam across as nothing short of a genuine and kind guy, but a guys guy too. I don't think that was the issue, i just think Smith was a hell of a leader and despite Moreau's now poor reputation he was amazing in the community and a great Oiler before his decline as well. Smyth probably didn't need more pressure, he had a letter and was a fill in captain multiple times iirc.

 

[Replacement*]

Yak's Muslim, but splitting hairs

heh, not sure why I stated it that way. I meant to say something more generic like "devout". Good catch.

Basically half my staff when I was running the hockey store had second jobs at a bar as bouncers. After Scrivens had the 59 save shutout against the Sharks, the boys all went out afterward. Scrivens was not among them. The guys were in awe about his play, but - and this is all hearsay - when someone asked if Ben was coming, one of the Oilers replied - 'Of course not, he's a ****ing nerd!'

Choosing to abstain in hockey culture can make you a bit of a pariah, there's no mistaking that. Even if you don't drink or aren't partying, you're still expected to go out and hang out with the boys.

Same thing on any construction crew. But my take is a professional occupation should rise above such nonsense. I don't doubt what you state either. It is so ingrained in pro sports and particularly hockey and reflects our societies predilections to substance abuse as meaningful "bonding moments" when its nothing of the sort. What a sad and awful commentary that is.

I'm a killjoy at parties now anyway. haha.

 

[shoop]

Same thing on any construction crew. But my take is a professional occupation should rise above such nonsense. I don't doubt what you state either. It is so ingrained in pro sports and particularly hockey and reflects our societies predilections to substance abuse as meaningful "bonding moments" when its nothing of the sort. What a sad and awful commentary that is.

Valid point, but pro sports is just different from working in a profession.

The team bonding aspect is clearly much more important on a sports team. Nobody is saying Scrivens couldn't have gone and sat with the boys for a little and had a coke.

 

[Replacement*]

Valid point, but pro sports is just different from working in a profession.

The team bonding aspect is clearly much more important on a sports team. Nobody is saying Scrivens couldn't have gone and sat with the boys for a little and had a coke.

I think what people consider as bonding moments needs to be re-evaluated.

People distort that bonding occur around substances. It isn't real. This is an illusion provided by the drug of choice in question. Bonding, real bonding, more typically occurs around achievement, hard work, accomplishment, positive results, etc.

If some present day Oilers think they are "bonding" by drinking after work they are doing anything but that. They may even be doing the opposite and engaging in clique and exclusion. Real team bonding is around the team purpose and includes everyone or no one.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Smyth was tight with the old Oilers of the 90's. He was very much a team guy i have no idea where this comes from. I know a guy who used to play gigs for some of the Oiler after parties and Smyth he said was a real nice guy who even bought him a drink. I also met Smyth a couple times and both were random and both times he cam across as nothing short of a genuine and kind guy, but a guys guy too. I don't think that was the issue, i just think Smith was a hell of a leader and despite Moreau's now poor reputation he was amazing in the community and a great Oiler before his decline as well. Smyth probably didn't need more pressure, he had a letter and was a fill in captain multiple times iirc.

I also have met Smyth a handful of times, and he was absolutely a team guy and a great human being but, that's not the same as being one of the boys if that makes sense. It happens when you're at a wildly different point in your life than the early 20 somethings on the team.

I have nothing to support this at all but I get the sense that some of the divide is that older guys like Smytty are one person on the road (in the sense they're freer to go hang out with the boys) and another when it's home to the wife and kids. Older guys like Smyth and Hendricks, or relatively younger guys with wives like Perron and Lander, it's a bit harder to connect.

 

[Replacement*]

I also have met Smyth a handful of times, and he was absolutely a team guy and a great human being but, that's not the same as being one of the boys if that makes sense. It happens when you're at a wildly different point in your life than the early 20 somethings on the team.

I have nothing to support this at all but I get the sense that some of the divide is that older guys like Smytty are one person on the road (in the sense they're freer to go hang out with the boys) and another when it's home to the wife and kids. Older guys like Smyth and Hendricks, or relatively younger guys with wives like Perron and Lander, it's a bit harder to connect.

Whats often been stated in team sports is that for a team to have bonding and chemistry varied age cohorts should be represented. On such a team the 25-30yr old age cohort is the most important as it acts as a cohort age bridge connecting the older and younger players. The Oilers have had a disparate group for years consisting of several young players, several older players, and so few in the middle cohort. Its why I don't take trading of such players as Perron lightly. We need more players in that middle age (for hockey) cohort.

What you and I are stating relates to any team or org dynamic. If there is a great age divide with no middle there is a great age divide..

Further, given this, efficacy of older players holding captaincy is even more problematic as they really have very little voice to the younger players. They can say it, but nothing sticks on the wall. Its been a real problem for the org.

 

[harpoon]

Good organizations make room for their Ryan Smyths.

And their Buchbergers and their Lowes and their MacTs.

It breeds loyalty, commitment to the organization, and a sense that you, as a player, will be taken care of far beyond the obligatory.

Huh? Isn't this exactly the kind of thinking that starts an OBC? If you look at Bucky, Lowe and MacT, they were all former Oiler captains. And they were all certainly more "loyal" to the Oil than Ryan Smyth. Possible exception of Buchberger, they are all more intelligent than Smyth as well.

If he (Smyth) wants to do some scouting work, why not? If he wants to travel around junior leagues giving pointers to our draft picks, why not? Similarly with a community liaison position, or a strength and conditioning assistant, or whatever.

Sure, if Smyth wants to do something like that I'd be OK with it. I doubt that he would be interested in such an insignificant position though.

It can only help, and it sends a message to the Halls and Eberles of the world that if they lay it all on the table for us like Smyth did, they'll be taken care of.

"Taken care of"? Screw that. The Oilers are hopefully no longer a care facility for retired NHLers. You want someone to take care of you? Get a wife or go ask your momma.

 

[rboomercat90]

Good organizations make room for their Ryan Smyths. It breeds loyalty, commitment to the organization, and a sense that you, as a player, will be taken care of far beyond the obligatory.

I am not arguing that any old Kurtis Foster should get this treatment, nor am I saying that we should make Smyth GM, but if he wants to do some scouting work, why not? If he wants to travel around junior leagues giving pointers to our draft picks, why not? Similarly with a community liaison position, or a strength and conditioning assistant, or whatever. It can only help, and it sends a message to the Halls and Eberles of the world that if they lay it all on the table for us like Smyth did, they'll be taken care of. Remember how impressed they were with how Smyth's final game was treated? Keep those feelings flowing.

I would hope that the $6 million a year for several more years takes care of Hall and Eberle.

 

[Mr Positive]

hiring Smyth isn't about catering to the OBC. All teams hire former players, because former players carry a lot of dedication and loyalty to the organization, they offer certainty in terms of character, and shows a culture of rewarding and celebrating players who have played for you in the past.

The problem comes when it seems that every powerful position and most other spots are all OBC members, and it becomes an insular group that has a hard time letting go of the past. On the Oilers, Nicholson trumps Lowe and Chiarelli is in charge of hockey team. In that structure the negative effects of an OBC are minimized as much as any team does.

We don't want to be so soured on the concept of an OBC that we swing too far the other way and reject all former players out of principle. They have a lot to offer us, and I'm sure Smyth does.

 

[McQuixote]

And their Buchbergers and their Lowes and their MacTs.

That's right, they do.

You're confusing "making room" with "giving them unearned promotions into positions of unfettered authority and a decade's worth of impunity."

But all of those players entered the organization at the appropriate level.

Kevin Lowe, a veteran and all-star with a near unparalleled resume, a stellar leadership reputation and perhaps longer ties to this organization than anybody, came in as assistant coach.

Craig MacTavish, with a lesser but still impressive playing resume and leadership reputation, came in as an assistant coach after working in that same position in another NHL organization.

Kelly Buchberger, with an even lesser but still solid playing resume and leadership reputation, came in as an assistant coach at the AHL level.

All of these hires are something that all organizations - good or bad - do. None of them are examples of problems. The Kings have won 2 Stanley Cups since bringing Luc Robitaille into their management fold ( 1 year post retirement) and have a similar track record with players like Glen Murray and Bill Ranford. The Bruins have Cam Neely in a senior position and have given post-retirement jobs to players like Jay Pandolfo and PJ Axelsson. The Hawks have moved players like Mike Grier, Yannic Perreault and Wade Brookbank directly into administrative roles with the team. The Blues immediately bumped Martin Brodeur into their front office after he retired.

Those are all successful organizations that 'make room' for players that have demonstrated *some quality* that made the organization want to keep them around, much in the same way the Oilers brought - correctly, I might add - Lowe, MacTavish and Buchburger, among others (like Charlie Huddy, who has done excellent work as an assistant coach for multiple organizations), into the fold.

Rapid, unearned promotions and complete freedom from accountability... now, these are problems. Hopefully a problem that lies in the past for our organization. That's unrelated to the notion of finding a role for a hard-working ambassador like Ryan Smyth.

 

[Broilers]

I do not want Smyth here netherlands any old Oiler. Kelly, MacT, KLowe, Smyth as good as gone. It is amer era and new leadership

 

[Master Lok]

Valid point, but pro sports is just different from working in a profession.

The team bonding aspect is clearly much more important on a sports team. Nobody is saying Scrivens couldn't have gone and sat with the boys for a little and had a coke.

However people are saying that if Scrivens didn't sit with the boys for a little and had a coke - then he must be a pariah? You mean the hours spent together watching film video, at practices, at workouts, in the dressing room changing before, and after, the team dinners, the plane rides.... All of this means nothing except for that late night drinking in a bar?

This is absolutely nuts.