Smith to The Rangers for 2017 3rd, 2018 2nd

HIFE

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May 10, 2011
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Detroit, MI
What happened today should be encouraging for all of us.

Smith wanted 3.5-4.0 million dollars, and Holland said you know what, I'm going to trade you for assets and let another team pay you that.

This is what we should have done with Helm last year. Maybe Abdelkader before that. Maybe Ericsson before that.

We have been too loyal to our homegrown players. What Holland did today is what he should be doing all the time. I get that this is a pleasant surprise based on how Holland has been the last few years, but this should be standard operating procedure. The return he got was great value-wise, he deserves credit for that, but it's a little sad folks think he should be getting a ton of praise for this type of move.

I think you're shifting the narrative here a bit. Smith is a 1st round bust who was passed by Marchenko 3 YEARS AGO. The organization including coaching has never trusted Smith in any great way. It doesn't relate to the value the Wings have placed on Abdelkader or Dekeyser, etc. Cutting ties with Smith wasn't a difficult choice to make.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Except he's not doing the rebuild like you guys think he's going to do a rebuild. Read Winger98's posts if you don't agree with me.

Right. We know that. It's why we don't like Holland?

I posted the alien part because it's like you missed the hundreds of posts about this topic that have taken over every thread for the last few years.

We're in a "take what we can get" mode of operation as a fanbase.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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So go over the cap,who cares? He's not going to sign anyone in FA with what we have that's going to change our fortunes for next year. We're still going to be a bottom five team but we won't have wasted assets to free up more cap for him to waste.

I think you're underestimating how easy it is for this club to climb back into being a the 14-17th team in the league next year and you don't rebuild well picking in the middle of the draft.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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Right. We know that. It's why we don't like Holland?

I posted the alien part because it's like you missed the hundreds of posts about this topic that have taken over every thread for the last few years.

We're in a "take what we can get" mode of operation as a fanbase.
Pretty much. If Holland turns around and uses the cap space to bring in <insert veteran re-tread here> once again, the potential gets squashed. But if this is the actual start of doing things (at least somewhat) differently, - despite the biggest problems likely being locked in for awhile - then fantastic.

And Bench, nice Simpsons reference.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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I think you're underestimating how easy it is for this club to climb back into being a the 14-17th team in the league next year and you don't rebuild well picking in the middle of the draft.

I don't get how that changes anything on our lookout to this trade, though.
 

Winger98

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Feb 27, 2002
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I don't get how that changes anything on our lookout to this trade, though.

it changes how people point to this trade, and the Jurco trade, and potential Vanek/Ott trades as some sort of harbinger of an actual rebuild. It's nice that Holland sold off a salable asset in a season that's clearly torpedoed at this point. But that's all it is.

If anyone is going to point to this move and start talking rebuild, it should be rebutted.
 

HIFE

Registered User
May 10, 2011
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259
Detroit, MI
I find it a huge breath of fresh air, especially with the rumors he could stay. Smith was a problem here I stand 100% by that. So tired of watching him and the cycle of benchings it was pathetic. You can't have the mental blocks he has and play in the NHL. Well I guess you can but he'll be exposed in NY after 5 minutes.

Really have to wonder what's up with the Rangers. The Brassard trade and now signing Smith? Sorry I can't respect the judgement or hopes of a team that takes Smith for any reason, really stupid. Hilarious the Caps got Shattenkirk and NY picks up Smith...
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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I think you're underestimating how easy it is for this club to climb back into being a the 14-17th team in the league next year and you don't rebuild well picking in the middle of the draft.

I am lost.

"Damn it Holland... stop tying up mediocre to good players to long deals, they'll keep you in the middle of the pack forever"

"Damn it Holland, don't move that mediocre to good player for picks instead of signing him to a long term deal or losing him for nothing, that will keep you in the middle of the pack forever."

What the hell do you want? This is a step to working themselves out of a roster quagmire, the next step is to let contracts like Howard's and Ericsson's run out without having to sell tons of assets, because they'll be bad organically for the next year or two and have boatloads of cap space if they don't go crazy spending it.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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it changes how people point to this trade, and the Jurco trade, and potential Vanek/Ott trades as some sort of harbinger of an actual rebuild. It's nice that Holland sold off a salable asset in a season that's clearly torpedoed at this point. But that's all it is.

If anyone is going to point to this move and start talking rebuild, it should be rebutted.

Jurco trade doesn't really prove anything as far as re-building. I think that was just more getting an asset for a guy sitting in a press box that was asking for a fresh start somewhere.

But the alternative to this Smith trade, would be to re-sign 28 year old Brendan Smith to 3 something million dollars, and play him over 23 year old Ouellet, 24 year old Sproul, or 26 year old Jensen who are all making 600-900K. Re-building teams opt for the latter, not the former.

What happens next remains to be seen, if Holland goes out and signs a bunch of 30+ year old mediocre UFA's this summer then yeah, you're right. But he needs to make more moves like the one he did today, and you have to start somewhere.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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I am lost.

"Damn it Holland... stop tying up mediocre to good players to long deals, they'll keep you in the middle of the pack forever"

"Damn it Holland, don't move that mediocre to good player for picks instead of signing him to a long term deal or losing him for nothing, that will keep you in the middle of the pack forever."

What the hell do you want? This is a step to working themselves out of a roster quagmire, the next step is to let contracts like Howard's and Ericsson's run out without having to sell tons of assets, because they'll be bad organically for the next year or two and have boatloads of cap space if they don't go crazy spending it.
I think pessimism over the bolded is key.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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it changes how people point to this trade, and the Jurco trade, and potential Vanek/Ott trades as some sort of harbinger of an actual rebuild. It's nice that Holland sold off a salable asset in a season that's clearly torpedoed at this point. But that's all it is.

If anyone is going to point to this move and start talking rebuild, it should be rebutted.

I don't think I see anyone actually saying Holland is committed to a rebuild? You and Fugu appear to be chasing windmills.

I have seen a lot of people say this is optimistically a step in the right direction. And your rebuttal involves saying it's not and that the big issues are still at hand.

Well, yeah. Everyone hates that stuff, too. But because Abby and Helm aren't being moved, you also keep Smith? Or you shouldn't be happy to see your GM actually sell when the time is right? I don't get the argument.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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I am lost.

"Damn it Holland... stop tying up mediocre to good players to long deals, they'll keep you in the middle of the pack forever"

"Damn it Holland, don't move that mediocre to good player for picks instead of signing him to a long term deal or losing him for nothing, that will keep you in the middle of the pack forever."

What the hell do you want? This is a step to working themselves out of a roster quagmire, the next step is to let contracts like Howard's and Ericsson's run out without having to sell tons of assets, because they'll be bad organically for the next year or two and have boatloads of cap space if they don't go crazy spending it.

How bad do you think they'll be? And how likely do you think it is that Holland will sit on his hands this summer?

Yeah. we're technically a bottom 5 team right now, tied with something like four other clubs. We're also like four points (5?) from fighting for a playoff spot. If the goal is to rebuild then sitting on those vets and hoping to be organically bad is unlikely to work, or at least to work well.

Jurco trade doesn't really prove anything as far as re-building. I think that was just more getting an asset for a guy sitting in a press box that was asking for a fresh start somewhere.

But the alternative to this Smith trade, would be to re-sign 28 year old Brendan Smith to 3 something million dollars, and play him over 23 year old Ouellet, 24 year old Sproul, or 26 year old Jensen who are all making 600-900K. Re-building teams opt for the latter, not the former.

What happens next remains to be seen, if Holland goes out and signs a bunch of 30+ year old mediocre UFA's this summer then yeah, you're right. But he needs to make more moves like the one he did today, and you have to start somewhere.

Are we going to ignore that Holland tried to re-sign Smith? This wasn't Holland's first choice and I don't see anything suggesting it'll be his first (or second, or third) choice this summer.

I don't have anything against letting Smith go in and of itself. The problem is that it doesn't signal rebuild to me, and it doesn't tell me management's vision of this team is really any different than it was in October.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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The problem is that it doesn't signal rebuild to me, and it doesn't tell me management's vision of this team is really any different than it was in October.

See, this is a fabricated problem. The windmill you're chasing. Who are you talking to that says this is the big rebuild Bat-signal?

There were pages of groaning about Holland even trying to re-sign Smith. And I think most of us here think Holland is just going to plug in some UFA at $3-4 million on the blueline this summer anyway.

But we turned the page from one of the core that was failing and got future assets. So it's a step in the right direction, again, optimistically. There was a genuine worry Holland wasn't going to sell at all and try to keep the band together.

This is, if anything, a massive dissection of our lowered expectations regarding a franchise spinning it's wheels in the mud.

Which is fair, but we also shouldn't be talking about this team rebuilding anywhere other than fantasy land, either. For as bad as this team has been this year, we're not exactly far off being in that area where there isn't a chance Holland is selling, and we're competing for that last bubble spot or two.

(taken from other thread, but good here)

I can only speak for myself, but I believe the rumbling you're hearing is one where it's been forced upon Holland. You know, as in the team is so bad it's basically going to tank next year, too, despite his best efforts.

They'll get good draft picks this year. And next year probably get some great ones, too. Then in year 3 maybe you come out on the other side looking better despite never actually trying to gut the team. And it will be nice that Smith isn't plugging along sucking up close to $4 million dollars because in year 2 or 3 you might have space to chase a top pairing defender in a trade without having to do cap space gymnastics.
 
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Cursed Lemon

Registered Bruiser
Nov 10, 2011
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Dey-Twah, MI
Well, I'm absolutely stumped as to how Kenny got what he got for Jurco and Smith, and frankly I'm absolutely floored that he's trading roster players.

Just don't **** up in the offseason, Holland.
 

HIFE

Registered User
May 10, 2011
3,220
259
Detroit, MI
...There were pages of groaning about Holland even trying to re-sign Smith. And I think most of us here think Holland is just going to plug in some UFA at $3-4 million on the blueline this summer anyway...

What I gathered was Winger wasn't trying to make a grand statement about keeping Smith, just that if the team isn't rebuilding Smith at 3 years wouldn't make a big difference either way. The concern for this summer is more than a fabrication. If not Smith who do you expect the Wings will overpay to a lengthy contract?

Engelland, Wideman, Alzner, Polak, Daley, Campbell, Tyutin, Franson, Oduya...every one of these names screams "Holland special".
 

Ezekial

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Nov 22, 2015
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I'm supposed to be going to the March 12 RETURN OF BRENDAN SMITH game against the Rags, but I was just informed that the game was moved from 12:30 to 7:00 pm, now I may not even be able to make it out for my final game at the Joe...

**** you guys, thanks a lot
 

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