Slovan Bratislava 2015/2016

Gromator

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Feb 10, 2016
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The average wage in Bratislava is 1343€. I really don't think that 40€ for a playoff game in the 2nd best league in the world against the best team on the continent, is that much.

Don't forget that when it comes to GDP per capita, Bratislava is the 7th richest region in the entire European Union (184% of EU average).

Source
 

Faterson

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You must be a government official, Gromator, with all those fictional high figures. :D Our government just loves throwing out those fictional numbers, and they particularly love trumpeting people's gross salaries, although the net salaries that people actually receive are dramatically lower (taxation and hidden taxation masked as "insurance" in Slovakia are on quite brutal levels). I also love that "average" statistical trick, the oldest in the book: you know, the one with one person being overfed and the other person starving, so on average, they're both doing just fine. :laugh:
 

penepi

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Jul 6, 2013
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Bratislava
The average wage in Bratislava is 1343€. I really don't think that 40€ for a playoff game in the 2nd best league in the world against the best team on the continent, is that much.

Don't forget that when it comes to GDP per capita, Bratislava is the 7th richest region in the entire European Union (184% of EU average).

Source
Average is something absolutely different than median.

The second factor is utterly misleading. This is just due to low number of residents in Bratislava region, and big number of corporations in the city centre. Their revenues, however, do not really reflect wages in the region.
 

Gromator

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Feb 10, 2016
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Average is something absolutely different than median.

The second factor is utterly misleading. This is just due to low number of residents in Bratislava region, and big number of corporations in the city centre. Their revenues, however, do not really reflect wages in the region.

Fair enough, I realize the GDP stats are skewed a bit.

But median income in Bratislava was 959€ last year. Which still makes 40€ tickets pretty affordable.
 

kabidjan18

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Apr 20, 2015
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Don't forget that when it comes to GDP per capita, Bratislava is the 7th richest region in the entire European Union (184% of EU average).

Source
If you spell Milan poorly enough it will look something like Bratislava.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_in_the_European_Union_by_GDP

Also, any reasonable person would have a serious problem with your evaluation of citizen purchasing power by comparing pre-tax income to single purchase price. By the same logic the average American makes more than 50 thousand dollars a year and a small BMW only costs 35 thousand so the BMW should be a very affordable car. The problem is that people have taxes, bills, debt, living expenses so the conversation is NEVER salary vs. cost of product but rather disposable income vs. cost of product. Now I don't live in Slovakia so I don't know about your tax brackets, the cost of basic services, the cost of life necessities or the way lending works in your nation but from the other Slovakians complaints it does not sound as if most Slovaks have enough disposable income to stomach an increase in ticket prices, which also for a devoted fan might not be just one game but several.
 

tobu

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
2,153
1,180
Bratislava, Slovakia
Fair enough, I realize the GDP stats are skewed a bit.

But median income in Bratislava was 959€ last year. Which still makes 40€ tickets pretty affordable.

of which net income is 733,11€ , average rent+energies 500€, average spent for food and other essentials is 200€, that leaves you with 33,11€, sorry you can't make it to the Slovan game :D
 

tobu

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Jan 10, 2013
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Bratislava, Slovakia
I'm a true Austrian aswell. Have always been a big Hockey fan and when i moved from Graz to Vienna during my studies I was lucky to find Slovan while watching some streams on laola1.tv. Didn't want to support the Vienna Capitals and so Slovan was the perfect fit to fill my hockey needs :) as it's only a 1 hour drive away from my current apartment and they have a car park right under the stadium.

Have watched atleast 20 games in the arena in the last 2 1/2 years and really got to love the club. Also dragged my friends and family to alot of games aswell and every single one enjoyed the experience.

There is not a single hockey arena in Austria that comes close to Slovans, the quality of hockey is way higher and also the prices for Austrians are really cheap. You can't find a beer in Austria anywhere for anything close to 2€, was on ski vacation in Tirol last week and they charged 6,30€ for a beer :shakehead.

Also enjoyed to party with my friends after the games in the city a couple of times and also spend new years eve there. Lovely City, great food and beer.

So let's go Slovan :handclap:, put up a good fight vs CSKA. I want to atleast see a game 6 in Bratislava ;)

:handclap:
 

URNA

Registered User
Sep 9, 2014
26
0
If you spell Milan poorly enough it will look something like Bratislava.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_in_the_European_Union_by_GDP

Also, any reasonable person would have a serious problem with your evaluation of citizen purchasing power by comparing pre-tax income to single purchase price. By the same logic the average American makes more than 50 thousand dollars a year and a small BMW only costs 35 thousand so the BMW should be a very affordable car. The problem is that people have taxes, bills, debt, living expenses so the conversation is NEVER salary vs. cost of product but rather disposable income vs. cost of product. Now I don't live in Slovakia so I don't know about your tax brackets, the cost of basic services, the cost of life necessities or the way lending works in your nation but from the other Slovakians complaints it does not sound as if most Slovaks have enough disposable income to stomach an increase in ticket prices, which also for a devoted fan might not be just one game but several.

Now, you say you know nothing about the tax system in Slovakia, costs of living, etc, so what makes you comment on how affordable or not the tickets are? Btw, Gromator is accurate with his wage and GDP/capita statistic. And income tax is very low by European comparison, so are the service costs levels. Not that all this is really relevant as the money people are ready to pay for a hockey game is quite subjective. For me the price is okay, I spend much more on restaurant bills, entertainment etc. - but I also understand for some it is set too high. Let's face it, the tickets will be sold out even at these price levels. In the end the club needs to make revenues to match it's spending - or do we prefer the shameful events from last season with unpaid players and staff wages and bills to repeat?
 

URNA

Registered User
Sep 9, 2014
26
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how about one day after a game, hfboards Slovan fans get together for a beer at one of the pubs below the arena?!? :)

Not such a bad idea. It's just the bars at the stadium are so crowded. We could also meet at the bar in the stadium for a beer during one of the breaks. I must make another comment here: the quality of food offered in the bars inside the stadium is horrible. The club should consider how to motivate the bar operators to improve the offer.
 

penepi

Registered User
Jul 6, 2013
1,015
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Bratislava
Not such a bad idea. It's just the bars at the stadium are so crowded. We could also meet at the bar in the stadium for a beer during one of the breaks. I must make another comment here: the quality of food offered in the bars inside the stadium is horrible. The club should consider how to motivate the bar operators to improve the offer.

I only go to Budík one, but I can't say a word about food quality. But regarding the quality inside the arena, it's interesting that in A-level it is way worse than in B-level.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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I only go to Budík one, but I can't say a word about food quality. But regarding the quality inside the arena, it's interesting that in A-level it is way worse than in B-level.

What kind of food is on offer penepi?
 

kabidjan18

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Apr 20, 2015
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Now, you say you know nothing about the tax system in Slovakia, costs of living, etc, so what makes you comment on how affordable or not the tickets are? Btw, Gromator is accurate with his wage and GDP/capita statistic. And income tax is very low by European comparison, so are the service costs levels. Not that all this is really relevant as the money people are ready to pay for a hockey game is quite subjective. For me the price is okay, I spend much more on restaurant bills, entertainment etc. - but I also understand for some it is set too high. Let's face it, the tickets will be sold out even at these price levels. In the end the club needs to make revenues to match it's spending - or do we prefer the shameful events from last season with unpaid players and staff wages and bills to repeat?
I was going to have fun with this one but the conversation moved on so I'll just say go back, read what I wrote slowly and carefully. I know reading comprehension in english is very hard, and you'll see I never said anything was or wasn't affordable, but rather went after the idea that mean pre-tax income levels could be compared to single unit purchase prices to determine affordability. My point was regardless of context so to validate his general argument you would have to prove it in all contexts. That debate isn't interesting, where to have beer is, all refocus.
 

Faterson

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income tax is very low by European comparison

You forget about all the egregious hidden taxes in Slovakia, most notably the mandatory so-called "insurance", which if you fail to pay the police might literally take you to jail in handcuffs. And what about that ridiculous 20% of VAT on practically everything you buy – something that would be unimaginable in civilized Western Europe or in the US. If the median is 959 € but you only actually receive 733 €, that's a huge chunk (24%) taken away right there. And if that's the median income, it means many people must be below that, otherwise it couldn't be median...

As to that spiral of ticket pricing getting out of hand, take a look at the picture below, from the most recent Liverpool FC football game. The fans walked out of the game in the 77th minute because the tickets were supposed to cost £77 next season, where back in 1990, they used to cost only £4. One of the Liverpool FC fans was holding up a sign: "I'm not a customer, I'm a fan!" :handclap:

JS51898637.jpg


In response to the walkout, the club's American management have now retracted those plans, and the tickets will continue to cost £43, which is quite hefty, too. I think a similar price hike could be observed in Slovan's hockey ticket prices between 1990 and 2015, where the increase in people's income, while substantial over the last 25 years, has not been on a similar level. So I think it makes sense for fans to voice their dismay over the play-off tickets pricing, so that the club management get the message that this is bordering on what the fans can still tolerate. I wonder if Slovan once made it to the Gagarin Cup finals, if the tickets for that series wouldn't be so expensive that only the super-rich could afford them? That's standard for Stanley Cup finals, but this isn't America.
 
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alko

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Oct 20, 2004
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Slovakia
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In regard to ticket prices and the discussion here about salary in BA.

Im still surprised, how many luxury cars can you see in Bratislava. Stay at least 1 hour at Zochova and count. How many Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Audi ... can you see? Also when you go to Petrzalka. How many of these cars can you see on the parking lots. Not to speak about average cars like Kia, Skoda ....
I think, 40 € its not so big deal.
 

Faterson

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I'm sure you can see even far more luxury cars in Moscow, so again, what's the reason for Slovan tickets being more expensive than CSKA tickets? :amazed: When Lev Prague were playing in the Gagarin Cup finals a couple of years ago, the tickets in Prague were like €12, I hear. Yeah, Lev had few real fans, but the surcharge of €40 for being "real fans" seems a bit steep. I understand Slovan wishes to be like the Toronto Maple Leafs in this regard, but... Judging a country by the ostentatious display of wealth of its upper classes is a fundamentally flawed method. I'm sure there are many luxury cars in Rio de Janeiro, too, besides all the slums. When you stand in Zochova Street for 1 hour and count the crammed public-transport buses passing by, I wonder if the number of people in those buses won't greatly exceed the number of people in the limousines? Or are hockey ticket prices now supposed to be adjusted based on what the folks in limousines can afford?
 

Gromator

Registered User
Feb 10, 2016
11
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You forget about all the egregious hidden taxes in Slovakia, most notably the mandatory so-called "insurance", which if you fail to pay the police might literally take you to jail in handcuffs.

Simply not true. Where did you even hear something like this?

And if that's the median income, it means many people must be below that...

Exactly 50%. That's why it's called median.

As to that spiral of ticket pricing getting out of hand, take a look at the picture below, from the most recent Liverpool FC football game. The fans walked out of the game in the 77th minute because the tickets were supposed to cost £77 next season

First of all, £77 is €100. Secondly, it was for a regular season game. I'm sure that if it was a Champions League quarterfinal against Barcelona (which is the football equivalent of KHL quarterfinal against CSKA), they wouldn't complain about 40€.

Where back in 1990, they used to cost only £4.

Yes. And 30 years ago milk used to cost 0.10 korunas, as the senior generation in Slovakia likes to reminisce about. How can you seriously compare 1990 prices to 2016 prices?

I wonder if Slovan once made it to the Gagarin Cup finals, if the tickets for that series wouldn't be so expensive that only the super-rich could afford them? That's standard for Stanley Cup finals, but this isn't America.

Well, what's super rich in your opinion? Also, if Slovan made it to the Gagarin Cup finals, I think €100+ would still be a completely acceptable and reasonable price. If you don't want to pay that much, then don't. Others will. It's a business.

I just don't get it. People always love to complain about how KHL teams are not economically self-sufficient, Slovaks love to complain when state-owned companies sponsor Slovan (and I agree, state-owned companies should not sponsor private clubs, but that's a discussion for another time), but when a team actually tries to make money, legally and fully within the basic rules of supply and demand, it's suddenly wrong.

Bottom line, if Slovan has enough loyal fans to fill the arena despite the most expensive ticket prices in KHL, then good for them!
 

Gromator

Registered User
Feb 10, 2016
11
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Or are hockey ticket prices now supposed to be adjusted based on what the folks in limousines can afford?

No, they are supposed to be adjusted based on supply and demand, like every other price in every other business.

Slovakia (thankfully) got free from communism almost three decades ago. Yet some people still don't understand how capitalism works.

Please understand Faterson, I am not trying to be an ******* towards you, but you seem to be living in a fairyland in which businessmen care about your satisfaction more than they care about, you know, business. That's just not how it works.
 

Faterson

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How can you seriously compare 1990 prices to 2016 prices?
Of course you can, if you also compare people's income in those years. I believe that a decent income in Communist Slovakia may have been around €100, and hockey tickets back then may have cost around 66 cents (20 crowns). Let's say a decent income for Slovakia today is around €1000. So the ticket to a hockey game might reasonably cost around €6.60. OK, so it's the KHL, let's double that – I'll give you €13 as an acceptable price. But €40+ is out-of-bounds for regular people.

It's a business.
It's your opinion that it's a business. Many would say that it should be sports first, business second. See that Liverpool FC fan holding up the sign, "I'm not a customer, I'm a fan."

Bottom line, if Slovan has enough loyal fans to fill the arena despite the most expensive ticket prices in KHL, then good for them!
I'm not sure it's going to be "loyal fans" who will fill the arena. Loyal fans are likely to stay at home if they can't afford to buy a ticket. The KHL play-offs will likely be seen as a social event for the well-to-do to show off, to "be there". You know, the kind of folks who wouldn't dream of attending a Slovan game at home versus Amur Khabarovsk in early September, with Slovan tumbling at the bottom of the KHL standings, because that just wouldn't be a prestigious enough event for them to attend. :naughty:
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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I don't understand people like you at all Faterson. Are you a fan of Slovan or not? Do you want them to win, be competitive and whatnot? Professional clubs need money for that more than anything.

If the concept of supporting your beloved club by more than sitting/standing/singing is so lost on you maybe you should go be a fan of some beer league team which plays for fun, you will probably be able to watch their games for free.

What about bands you are listening to? You are against buying their cds, going to their shows because it's money grab? You only listen to them on radio and for living they should just get regular jobs because music is just a hobby anyway, like hockey, am I right?

"Many would say that it should be sports first, business second.". Yes, because players on the team play for fame, glory and their live for Slovan. Also so they would have something to do after day jobs, like in 50s. Not like they are professionals and do that for money first at all.
 
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Gromator

Registered User
Feb 10, 2016
11
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Of course you can, if you also compare people's income in those years. I believe that a decent income in Communist Slovakia may have been around €100, and hockey tickets back then may have cost around 66 cents (20 crowns). Let's say a decent income for Slovakia today is around €1000. So the ticket to a hockey game might reasonably cost around €6.60. OK, so it's the KHL, let's double that – I'll give you €13 as an acceptable price. But €40+ is out-of-bounds for regular people.

That is a very simplified (and invalid) view. You forget that the clubs during communism were HEAVILY funded by the state. Ranging from simple maintenance costs to costs of the equipment for their junior teams. The club could afford (and even had to, due to political and ideological reasons) to sell tickets for prices like that. Every single club during communism was bleeding money.

Today it is (and should be) completely different.

It's your opinion that it's a business. Many would say that it should be sports first, business second.

Ok, let's make it sports first. Then who will pay for it? Whether you like it or not, it IS business. And now we are back to the point from my previous post: Everyone complains about KHL teams not being self-sufficient, surviving only because of money from oligarchs that consider the teams their toys, yet when some team tries to actually make money on its own, it is suddenly wrong.

I mean, what would you want Slovan to do? How would you replace all the lost income if they sold the tickets for 10€?
 

penepi

Registered User
Jul 6, 2013
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Bratislava
It's your opinion that it's a business. Many would say that it should be sports first, business second. See that Liverpool FC fan holding up the sign, "I'm not a customer, I'm a fan."
It's not his opinion, it is a pure fact. I don't really know what you are trying to say here. Sports on the level of the KHL is about business in the first instance. Of course, without fans there can be no business, but club is not a social service.

And I literally hate the thing with "loyal fans", it always makes me smile. Alright, I believe there can be a huge number of supporters who are really loyal and can't afford a bit more expensive tickets, but let's not make it that only poor fans are those being loyal.
 

Faterson

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How would you replace all the lost income if they sold the tickets for 10€?
The entire play-offs are extra income, so you can't really talk about any "losses". Yes, there are also extra costs incurred by playing in the play-offs, but those would have been amply covered by more modest ticket prices, too. So it's all about what's considered to be a reasonable profit margin.

let's not make it that only poor fans are those being loyal.
I don't recall anyone saying so here. :) Nor do I recall anyone arguing that everything should be free, that musicians shouldn't get paid for their efforts, etc. etc. Take it easy with those strawmen, guys. The discussion is about what ticket prices might be considered reasonable and fair towards the Slovan fanbase at large for whom, I fear, spending €40+ for a hockey ticket may not be an easy thing to do.
 

URNA

Registered User
Sep 9, 2014
26
0
Faterson, Slovan has one of the lowest revenues in KHL. The club has not been earning any money since years. Last year the club finished with EBT deeply in red. In KHL Slovan tries to compete with Russian clubs that are mostly financed on non-commercial terms. How can you expect the club to give up on its gate revenues and at the same time demand goog players and results? You need to decide if you wish to watch Slovan playing extraliga play offs for €10 or KHl for 35. If you can't efforts seeing every match you can still opt for TV and visit the stands once in a time. But you can't have it all and for free.
As for your theories on Slovak economics, they are completely faulted. No need to argue with me kabidjan style, posting Wikipedia references. I do economics for living and can trust me when I say your arguments are wrong.
Why don't we move on and leave this sad topic of ticket prices behind.
Do you know if Ticar and Jeglic have contracts also for next season ? I fear they will be in demand when transfer window opens.
 

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