Value of: Skjei + DeAngelo to Leafs for Liljegren + 25OA + 2019 1st

[Kupo]

Actually, GFrel% is kind of the best predictor of success for AHL defencemen at this moment.

The fact that you're pumping up DeAngelo tells me that you probably have no clue.

Anyway, you keep your hopes up. We'll see in a couple of years.

Maybe you can explain to me how I'm pumping ADA up. All I did was state facts. RHD are at a premium in this league, especially offensive savvy ones. You're the one stating that he's almost 100% a bust, despite being a 22 year old.

We won't know what's going to happen with ADA for a couple of years, so throwing around silly statements like He's almost 100% a bust already is incredibly foolish.

 

[WhoTagz]

I hate this deal for rangers , Skjei is McDonaghs replacement he’d gonna eat hard minutes and even though they have a few guys coming up the pipe on the left side I don’t really like the return

 

[Kupo]

NHL career
71-5-17-22 128sog

Those are the numbers of a bust... 22 years old and it’s never going to get better lol

Right because 22 year old dmen are finished NHL products.

Never change, HF. 25's the new 40. He should just retire now and start his bingo career.

 

[Cor]

Leafs counter with 3 first round picks for Jake Gardiner.

 

[Brobust]

Maybe you can explain to me how I'm pumping ADA up. All I did was state facts. RHD are at a premium in this league, especially offensive savvy ones. You're the one stating that he's almost 100% a bust, despite being a 22 year old.

We won't know what's going to happen with ADA for a couple of years, so throwing around silly statements like He's almost 100% a bust already is incredibly foolish.

Bad RHDs aren't at a premium. If they were, Adam Clendening would be in demand.

You also generally have a clue based on their development trajectory and stats on whether a player will work out or not. The fact that he's spent 3 years playing pro hockey and hasn't improved defensively, at all, is not a good sign. And I don't think any half intelligent GM would put any value on him in a trade. There's a very good chance that he ends up being a career AHLer.

How do you expect a team to value a player in a trade when the chances of him being an NHLer are extremely low? You are ignoring every sign that points to him ending up a bust and just looking at his age.

By the way, 22 isn't that young for a prospect. In fact, he's probably coming up on the end of his waiver eligibility. So there's no more time for him to develop in the AHL without going through waivers and he's definitely not a player than any playoff caliber team would like on their 3rd pair. Therefore he's essentially worth a late pick. At most.

 

[RABBIT]

Right because 22 year old dmen are finished NHL products.

Never change, HF. 25's the new 40. He should just retire now and start his bingo career.

I think he was being sarcastic, he's got decent numbers and has still only played less than a full season's worth of games. If DeAngelo has such low of value the coyotes are happy to take him off New York's hands Grabbing our No. 1 center, No. 1 goalie and re-acquiring a young RHD with potential would be a helluva deal!

 

[Zonk]

100%? Really?

Why does he have to become a top-4 dmen to be considered a non-bust? Is there some edict from god that highlights that?

ADA can develop into a bottom pairing, PP QB clipping 40+ point per year as a RHD and that's fine.

Most players, let alone Dmen, don't peak at 22. His GFrel% means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. He's still in the developmental stage in his career and I don't think anyone should be speaking in absolutes about this kid. Players of his caliber don't grow on trees.

I'm almost 100% sure you don't know what the hell you're talking about with ADA.

Are we talking about the same Anthony DeAngelo? The one who was drafted by Tampa in 2014? And traded to Arizona in 2016? And traded to New York in 2018?

Shouldn't you be waiting until 2020 to try to sucker another team into taking him to maintain his pattern of changing teams every two years?

 

[Kupo]

Bad RHDs aren't at a premium. If they were, Adam Clendening would be in demand.

Adam Clendening's offensive abilities are nowhere near ADA's. Different pedigree, different ceiling. Try harder.

You also generally have a clue based on their development trajectory and stats on whether a player will work out or not. The fact that he's spent 3 years playing pro hockey and hasn't improved defensively, at all, is not a good sign. And I don't think any half intelligent GM would put any value on him in a trade. There's a very good chance that he ends up being a career AHLer.

There are two different fanbases that have seen some type of improvement with his defensive play. Maybe you're not watching him enough.

How do you expect a team to value a player in a trade when the chances of him being an NHLer are extremely low? You are ignoring every sign that points to him ending up a bust and just looking at his age.

I'm not just looking at his age. I'm looking at everything, good and bad. He definitely needs to improve his play in his own zone, and I think coaching and experience are two vital things that'll help him with that.

By the way, 22 isn't that young for a prospect. In fact, he's probably coming up on the end of his waiver eligibility. So there's no more time for him to develop in the AHL without going through waivers and he's definitely not a player than any playoff caliber team would like on their 3rd pair. Therefore he's essentially worth a late pick. At most.

ADA's play last season wasn't terrible. He was actually trending upwards and helping this team in areas that needed serious attention. What hurt ADA last season was him crashing into the boards and being forced out with a serious sprain. You failed to neglect that though, which makes me assume you aren't actually watching him play. Instead, you're focusing on analytics which is incredibly short sighted considering there's a lot more to hockey than analytics.

Fact is he may bust. Or, he may not. What I didn't like about your post was the nonsense you discharged, suggesting he's almost a 100% bust. I wouldn't say any 22 year old in any sport is almost 100% of a bust. That's just silly.

 

[Kupo]

Are we talking about the same Anthony DeAngelo? The one who was drafted by Tampa in 2014? And traded to Arizona in 2016? And traded to New York in 2018?

Shouldn't you be waiting until 2020 to try to sucker another team into taking him to maintain his pattern of changing teams every two years?

Arizona didn't want to move ADA. Gorton wanted him. He specifically requested him when he was negotiating with Chayka during the Stepan trade.

DeAngelo has and continues to be a player with huge offensive upside. If his defensive game improves and he can become a regular blueliner, I think it's safe to say he won't be considered a bust.

As a rebuilding team, one thing the Rangers can afford is to be patient with a player that has the high caliber ADA has. Again, he's 22. When I was that age all I cared about was partying till 3am, playing video games, and ripping my roor.

Not all players develop at the same time. Dmen, specifically, are known to be guys that develop slower than forwards.

 

[Brobust]

Fact is he may bust. Or, he may not. What I didn't like about your post was the nonsense you discharged, suggesting he's almost a 100% bust. I wouldn't say any 22 year old in any sport is almost 100% of a bust. That's just silly.

I said he's bad defensively and there likely won't be any defensive improvement. I'm just saying that I wouldn't bet on him improving and I wouldn't value him in a trade.

That being said, I think the best place for DeAngelo would be on a team like NYR where he can keep playing in the NHL.

 

[BM14]

DeAngelo has very good potential and will be a top 4 Dman . Lets tweak a bit Skjei, DeAngelo for Liljegren, Kapanen and 25OA . Rangers are giving up 2 1st round picks , TO giving up 2 first round picks and Kapanen ( who is worth a 2nd rounder )

I'll bite.

How is Kapanen worth a 2nd?

The rest of your post was horrible as well but your constant Leafs bashing is terrible.

 

[Brobust]

Does anyone else remember the poll where Skjei smoked Rielly on who was/will be better?
I love Hfboards

I'm sure Rielly has lost an HFboards poll against every young defenceman in the NHL.

 

[Brobust]

DeAngelo has very good potential and will be a top 4 Dman . Lets tweak a bit Skjei, DeAngelo for Liljegren, Kapanen and 25OA . Rangers are giving up 2 1st round picks , TO giving up 2 first round picks and Kapanen ( who is worth a 2nd rounder )

DeAngelo is at the end of his waiver eligibility period. Stop valuing him as a 1st round pick. GMs, at least the intelligent ones, don't give much value to pedigree.

 

[Kupo]

I said he's bad defensively and there likely won't be any defensive improvement. I'm just saying that I wouldn't bet on him improving and I wouldn't value him in a trade.

That being said, I think the best place for DeAngelo would be on a team like NYR where he can keep playing in the NHL.

What you said was

He's almost 100% sure to be a bust and it's best if you prepare yourself for that outcome.

And that's what I ultimately disagreed with. Nobody should be 100% sure, or unsure about any 22 year old that was having a good year last season until his injury.

You're completely correct about him being in a good place right now. Rebuilding team with holes on the blueline. Bottom line, there are risks with every young player in the game. The reward is worth the risk with a guy like ADA though.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Leafs Pass

 

[bl02]

Rangers shouldn't trade Skjei unless an established young d man is coming back. Leafs will make playoffs again so the 2019 pick will probably be 20-24 overall. Rangers have enough first round picks the only established known quantity in this trade is Skjei. I like Liljegren but its not a guarantee he becomes a very good dman in the NHL.

 

[TorontoTrades]

A very rare bad deal for the leafs

This.
Skjei and DeAngelo aren't worth 3 first round picks.

 

[bernmeister]

Okay, we can let this one die a natural death and I will look elsewhere to move Skjei.

Obviously, Leafs were solid for the most part at F; we can be picky about depth, but more than adequate. Goalie better than satisfactory. The missing link is D. Zaitsev is it for RD. LD is also thin.

We are not on the same page about DeAngelo. Offensively, he could be 1D right now. Defensively, he is struggling to get to 3RD. However, despite idiocy of AV def system and favoring vets, he improved this year. He is not the skater Justin Schultz is but is overall more skilled. If JS could make it after, what, 5-6 years?, we can give DeA another 2 to show continued improvement.

DeA, even with limitations learning on the job, would AT LEAST be 3RD for TOR. Possible 2nd pair depending on partner, circumstances, etc.

Skjei adds, and while I could not flip him for RD Dumba, I could see a package that somewhere gets a quality RD.

Leafs assets in this deal are all futures. We THINK Lil is close to ready, but we don't KNOW. And as such, if he starts he this season he will be 3rd pair min mins until he learns the ropes. You could get lightning in a bottle overnight, but percentages say he contributes small increments to start. And the picks, the 2018 of which is late, are also futures.

Considering what you are getting, that it is immediate help, and is taking only one prospect and accepting futures, I consider it more than fair and useful to Leafs.

However, I get the counter-argument.
At some point, Leafs have to add talent, they don't have enough horses today, and in the course of that, they need to shore up weaknesses, ie RD. Is it better to hang on to Lil-meister, take your chances there, and use the picks to add 2 pieces over 2 years?
That is a credible counterposition, the only ? being the time factor.

 

[bernmeister]

This.
Skjei and DeAngelo aren't worth 3 first round picks.

Disagree considering how that 2018 pick is late.
And your 2019 pick looks like it will be late as Leafs are expected to contend.

Picks aside you grossly undervalued the 2 Ranger players, IMO.

 

[bernmeister]

pls del unintended dupl post due to computer freeze
thank u

 

[bernmeister]

Isn't Skjei what you hope a prospect turns into? I think the Rangers hold onto him for at least 1 more season with a new coach coming in. I'm not sure what ADA's value actually is. I don't think the value is terrible for either team but I just don't see Tor. moving Lilgegren or the Rangers moving Skjei either.

This is a reasonable argument against.
Kudos to you for bringing it up.

For me, the key is we have 4 LD guys on the cusp. Whether or not this season is an actual throw away and we rely on the equivalent of Nick Holden redux x 3 to get through it, LD is not our prob. RD is.

We also need more total horses.

So we reshuffle the deck w/Lil, we add another mod 20 something pick, which I can see used or bundled.

And we get a pick for next year, the extra asset.

Other things being =, I'm fond of Skjei, and if this were not a deep draft, I would say let's extend Skjei first, then move after 1-2 years. But this is the year to go balls to the walls.

I'm bullish on DeA, within reason, and I would prefer developing him further, whether kept or then dealt.
But to make this attractive to Tor, they need RD now, and it was either Pionk or DeA. I would have to ask more for Pionk.

So there you have it.

 

[Kupo]

I will look elsewhere to move Skjei.

Oh FFS you just have no clue dude. Like, none.

Not even a smidge.

Why the hell is a rebuilding team that’s shallow at LD, moving their most promising 24 year old LHD? Especially after moving McDonagh...?

You know what, don’t even attempt to answer that question. Go worship your Chris Kreider shrine and let this proposal die a miserable death, just like the rest of the asinine proposals you whip up.

 

[Klaus3154]

Neither team does this. Skjei will get big time minutes this year and I think the Rangers are really going to use this to evaluate what they have. DeAngelo is in no way worth a 1st rounder. He really hasn’t shown more then a decent shot from the point. He has been a defensive liability.
There is a chance that Skjei can become a prominent defenseman maybe even a top pairing d-man. If Toronto thinks he can become this they might pull the trigger but I doubt they pull the trigger.

 

[bernmeister]

Oh FFS you just have no clue dude. Like, none.

Not even a smidge.

Why the hell is a rebuilding team that’s shallow at LD, moving their most promising 24 year old LHD? Especially after moving McDonagh...?

You know what, don’t even attempt to answer that question. Go worship your Chris Kreider shrine and let this proposal die a miserable death, just like the rest of the asinine proposals you whip up.

rude dude
kindly read the prior above post

I dispute your premise
we have 4 guys who are potential LD
we are thin at RD
also we need mo betta assets
have to give to get
it is a measured risk

 

[Sweetpotato]

There will be no agreement on this thread other than neither team will do it.

Also as for DeAngelo being a bust, he's a 19th oa pick that's an NHL player with upside, how is that a bust lol most mid to late 1st round picks don't even have nhl careers.

Kieffer Bellows
Effect Svechnikov
Kerry Rychel
Andre Vasilevsky
Oscar Klefbom
Nick Bjugstad
Kris Krieder

Lol I'm actually impressed by the last few 19th oa's XD point still stands tho.