Player Discussion Sir Sheamus Weber (Man Mountain PhD edition)

[Kriss E]

Subban trooper, this series loss against Rags aint Webers fault.

Isn't that precisely what I wrote?

 

[badbrains]

Honestly such a dumb thing to say. The guys got 2 gold medals. So, is success dependent on the team? Can't have it both ways.

Chris Kunitz has a gold medal.

And so does Subban. I don't see the relevance.

Weber is 31 and has never passed the 2nd round. History tells us he isn't a playoff winner.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Chris Kunitz has a gold medal.

And so does Subban. I don't see the relevance.

Glad my point was proven. Weber is no more a "playoff loser" than the above are "proven winners"

Weber is 31 and has never passed the 2nd round. History tells us he isn't a playoff winner.

How can you say that about a guy who played top minutes on a gold medal team, twice? If you're going to use strength of a team as an argument surely you would agree that weakness of a team would also be an argument?

 

[FinnHab]

Isn't that precisely what I wrote?

Nope, that was just another "i miss Subban"-rant.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

The point was to show the ridiculousness of some of the points brought forth by the Weber troopers earlier this year.

Bergevin getting Weber wasn't fine, it was pointless.

Pointless because?

He's assembling a team as per his vision. That means some guys are better fits than others.

Of course if the team is incomplete you're not going to get end result. So again, getting Weber is fine but he didn't address the rest.

I love subban but who cares? Are you ready to praise Desharnais? Should people bring up Eller has done less than him?

Who cares. Focus on our team. Weber is a fantastic player but MB needs to act fast because or else we'll be in agreement about trade bring pointless.

 

[Whitesnake]

Those putting this loss on Weber are those with an clear agenda and are not better than users who bash Subban. It's a team game and our forwards just couldn't get it done. If anyone is to blame it's Bergy and the forwards.

People have a hard time with the "putting the blame on Weber...putting the blame on Price" and "While they were not a problem, they weren't a solution either".

Weber was brought in so that this team would be immediately better because of the atmosphere in the room. And Because he was....you know...Shea Weber. So he was suppose to make this team BETTER. By his own play. And by the play of the others around him. You know...."becoming automatically 4 inches taller, and 20lbs bigger because of him".

So that did NOT, this year, materialize whatsoever. Did we make the playoffs because of him? We would not have made the playoffs with PK? Of course we would have. So what his acquisition gave us this year is a 6-game loss in the 1st round. So his acquisition, this year, meant NOTHING. I guess we will see in future years. But in the meantime, the team that has the guy that was so disruptive and would **** up another entire locker room and an entire city, beat in 4 the Hawks. So what we were told and what we were sold was bogus. This year. I guess we will see in the future.

In the meantime, it looks even more awful than everything Bergevin did or didn't do. Enough excuses. This guy has to go. He had "a plan". He ****ed up. And the great plan that Bergevin had was to slow down this team so that in the middle of the 1st freakin round, the team was gassed. Can't people not realize that? Don't worry though, with Molson, I know he's not going anywhere. But he ****ed up. And I don't see how he'll get us out of there.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

You can't blame Weber here at all...

He was our best defenseman, and kept the Rangers forwards nervous all series. He was a threat offensively, but the problem was our offense, and complete disappearance of Captain Invisible.

I hated the Weber trade, I still don't like it, but we are stuck with what we have now, and while he's no PK, Weber is still an elite player.

Our problem is once again, our best players up front, were not very good. Gallagher tried hard and was effective as he could be. Radulov was a bull, and our only consistent threat, and the poor guy was flying solo out there. Pacioretty was invisible, as per usual. Danault was also terrible. Plekanec, was just fair, certainly not worth 6 million dollars worth of contract. Byron, was another small guy that tried hard and couldn't do much. That was our second highest scorer on the year!!! PAUL BYRON. And we wonder why we stunk in the playoffs? Galchenyuk was awful most of the time, with a few bright plays here and there. We've done a **** poor job developing him. King was awful. Ott was a bright spot on the fourth line. Torrey Mitchell played well when he was allowed on the ice. Shaw was a huge disappointment and then got hurt.

This is all on one player specifically though.... When you're a 35 goal scorer, who lobbied to be the ****ING CAPTAIN of the most storied franchise of the NHL, and you get it, you HAVE TO BE ****ING ACCOUNTABLE. Pacioretty was a non trying, ineffective, soft as newborn puppy **** player. His linemate has 7 points. He had ONE. He was not physical. He was not involved. He went through the motions and did that poorly. PK Subban was a playoff warrior. PK Subban ALWAYS showed up in the big games. He drove the play, he scored the goals. He talked the talk, but Brother he WALKED the WALK.

We made the wrong choice. Most of us knew it, because Captain Invisible had been disappearing for a decade. But management traded the "controversial" guy that would bleed red, white and blue, and kept the loser that always seems to disappear anytime the going gets tough.

Now we are a franchise in shambles, with a guy who has LESS balls than Kessel.

Pacioretty should never play another game with the franchise, and if he does (GOD FORBID) he should be stripped IMMEDIATELY of the C. It's an absolute disgrace that someone with his complete lack of heart should ever be given the captaincy. Guy Lafleur was right about this piece of ****. Trade him.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Weber was solid for the Habs all year and was one of the better players for the team these playoffs.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Pointless because?

He's assembling a team as per his vision. That means some guys are better fits than others.

Of course if the team is incomplete you're not going to get end result. So again, getting Weber is fine but he didn't address the rest.

I love subban but who cares? Are you ready to praise Desharnais? Should people bring up Eller has done less than him?

Who cares. Focus on our team. Weber is a fantastic player but MB needs to act fast because or else we'll be in agreement about trade bring pointless.

What exactly is his vision?

The team looked awful. Couldn't carry the puck into the zone, couldn't maintain possession once in the zone. Weber was awful at pinching on the boards to keep the puck in (Something Subban excels at). He kept on acquiring 4th line grinders as per usual, how'd that work out for us?

If this is his vision, he must be ****ing blind.

 

[Born in 1909]

Every single NHL team would take Weber on their team.

In an instant.

No debate here.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Don't really see who all these people are referring to when they say ''people blaming Weber for this series loss.''

Doesn't really seem to be many people. Maybe respond to them specifically so we can avoid this confusion in the future?

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Every single NHL team would take Weber on their team.

In an instant.

No debate here.

Would they move their #1 for him though?

In hindsight a potential trade that could have still netted us Weber would have been Pacioretty+Petry.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

What exactly is his vision?

The team looked awful. Couldn't carry the puck into the zone, couldn't maintain possession once in the zone. Weber was awful at pinching on the boards to keep the puck in (Something Subban excels at). He kept on acquiring 4th line grinders as per usual, how'd that work out for us?

If this is his vision, he must be ****ing blind.

I think my point is clear. He hasn't executed his vision. I really doubt he wanted a Danault, Flynn and a regressed Plekanec as top 3 centers in the playoffs.

Weber is just a different type of great player relative to Subban. Some teams prefer these types, it's 100% okay.

It's all good but we got older but he's too passive on the other needs.

You get Weber, you go all in. We need a better C and Galchenyuk alone isn't enough. We need a 1-2 punch.

 

[Kriss E]

Nope, that was just another "i miss Subban"-rant.

Weber played well for us, our loss has nothing to do with him.

Either follow a discussion fully, or don't.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

I think my point is clear. He hasn't executed his vision. I really doubt he wanted a Danault, Flynn and a regressed Plekanec as top 3 centers in the playoffs.

Weber is just a different type of great player relative to Subban. Some teams prefer these types, it's 100% okay.

It's all good but we got older but he's too passive on the other needs.

You get Weber, you go all in. We need a better C and Galchenyuk alone isn't enough. We need a 1-2 punch.

So basically you are just confirming what I'm saying;

Marc Bergevin is a failure as a General Manager because he cannot execute his vision.

Thanks

 

[badbrains]

Glad my point was proven. Weber is no more a "playoff loser" than the above are "proven winners"

Kunitz has a Gold medal and a Stanley Cup or two. Subban was a key cog in the Hab's run to the ECF. Both referenced players have advanced farther than any team Weber has played on and are in fact "proven winners" in the NHL when compared to Weber's resume.

And we're seeing it in front of our eyes now. PK being a key contributor to his team's playoff success yet again, in a tougher division and conference no less. Weber with an early playoff exit, again. Quantifiable.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Would they move their #1 for him though?

In hindsight a potential trade that could have still netted us Weber would have been Pacioretty+Petry.

The trade was always about moving PK out rather than acquiring Weber.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Would they move their #1 for him though?

In hindsight a potential trade that could have still netted us Weber would have been Pacioretty+Petry.

If Petry accepts to waive his NMC.

 

[badbrains]

Every single NHL team would take Weber on their team.

In an instant.

No debate here.

Of course.

But qualify that, please. You'd take Weber on your team ahead of every other D man? If you're LA do you trade Doughty for Weber? Or Keith, Seabrook, Letang, Vlasic, McDonough, Subban etc?

 

[Kriss E]

Pointless because?

He's assembling a team as per his vision. That means some guys are better fits than others.

Of course if the team is incomplete you're not going to get end result. So again, getting Weber is fine but he didn't address the rest.

I love subban but who cares? Are you ready to praise Desharnais? Should people bring up Eller has done less than him?

Who cares. Focus on our team. Weber is a fantastic player but MB needs to act fast because or else we'll be in agreement about trade bring pointless.

How did the trade improve us? It didn't. More of the same.
Vision? Lol...Are you still on that?? What vision. He wants a big fast skilled team?? Wow, ya, every single fan wants that. That's not a vision.

 

[Nedved]

You can't blame Weber here at all...

He was our best defenseman, and kept the Rangers forwards nervous all series. He was a threat offensively, but the problem was our offense, and complete disappearance of Captain Invisible.

I hated the Weber trade, I still don't like it, but we are stuck with what we have now, and while he's no PK, Weber is still an elite player.

Our problem is once again, our best players up front, were not very good. Gallagher tried hard and was effective as he could be. Radulov was a bull, and our only consistent threat, and the poor guy was flying solo out there. Pacioretty was invisible, as per usual. Danault was also terrible. Plekanec, was just fair, certainly not worth 6 million dollars worth of contract. Byron, was another small guy that tried hard and couldn't do much. That was our second highest scorer on the year!!! PAUL BYRON. And we wonder why we stunk in the playoffs? Galchenyuk was awful most of the time, with a few bright plays here and there. We've done a **** poor job developing him. King was awful. Ott was a bright spot on the fourth line. Torrey Mitchell played well when he was allowed on the ice. Shaw was a huge disappointment and then got hurt.

This is all on one player specifically though.... When you're a 35 goal scorer, who lobbied to be the ****ING CAPTAIN of the most storied franchise of the NHL, and you get it, you HAVE TO BE ****ING ACCOUNTABLE. Pacioretty was a non trying, ineffective, soft as newborn puppy **** player. His linemate has 7 points. He had ONE. He was not physical. He was not involved. He went through the motions and did that poorly. PK Subban was a playoff warrior. PK Subban ALWAYS showed up in the big games. He drove the play, he scored the goals. He talked the talk, but Brother he WALKED the WALK.

We made the wrong choice. Most of us knew it, because Captain Invisible had been disappearing for a decade. But management traded the "controversial" guy that would bleed red, white and blue, and kept the loser that always seems to disappear anytime the going gets tough.

Now we are a franchise in shambles, with a guy who has LESS balls than Kessel.

Pacioretty should never play another game with the franchise, and if he does (GOD FORBID) he should be stripped IMMEDIATELY of the C. It's an absolute disgrace that someone with his complete lack of heart should ever be given the captaincy. Guy Lafleur was right about this piece of ****. Trade him.

Guys I take before Weber:

Hedman
Karlsson
Josi
Subban
Doughty
McDonagh
Jones
Pietrangelo



I'm sure there's a couple more, but these are some guys I would take over Weber. He's a number 1, he's not elite. In my eyes: Hedman and Karlsson are the only two elite dman. Maybe Subban if he finds his explosiveness again, and Doughty if he settles down back there.

Hedman is my favourite dman.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

The trade was always about moving PK out rather than acquiring Weber.

Which constitutes a huge failure.

Moving PK is the biggest blunder of the organization since Roy, and it's not close.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Which constitutes a huge failure.

Moving PK is the biggest blunder of the organization since Roy, and it's not close.

It will be interesting to hear the facts whenever the book comes out.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

So basically you are just confirming what I'm saying;

Marc Bergevin is a failure as a General Manager because he cannot execute his vision.

Thanks

I don't disagree. I agree actually.

How did the trade improve us? It didn't. More of the same.
Vision? Lol...Are you still on that?? What vision. He wants a big fast skilled team?? Wow, ya, every single fan wants that. That's not a vision.

As I said above I agree 100% he failed to execute the vision, whatever his vision may be.

What I disagree with on your post is the assumption that one player makes a team. In reality a team when well constructed is greater than the sum of all its parts. MB failed to finish the vision in time for us to see it. So yeah, more of the same if you want but as a GM who is building something he has to look at final blueprint. What will work when all is said and done.

Unfortunately, if he doesn't work fast enough that window will vanish. It's fading quick.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

It will be interesting to hear the facts whenever the book comes out.

One of the biggest issues of the Montreal Canadiens organization after the Pollock era has been that the "image" of the organization trumps skill & ability on the ice.

It's the reason why flashy guys with perceived attitude issues get shipped out as fast they are brought in. We've given up on superstars in favour of incompetent coachs, and we've traded core members of hockey clubs because they "clash" with the other side of the room, which generally speaking is always the unskilled "hardworking" side.

The only reason why we aren't cupless since the 70s is because Patrick Roy went into God mode, and the entire organizations philosophy on team building is now based on this model.

The only Habs team in recent memory that actually looked good on paper is the 08-09 edition.