Sidney Crosby for Auston Matthews Trade - Which team says yes/no?

[bobholly39]

The following trade gets offered by either Toronto or Pittsburgh. Right now - at the very start of 2019.

Sidney Crosby (at current contract/age) for Auston Matthews (at current contract/age).

Let's go one step further and assume Pittsburgh is given a chance to talk to Auston Matthews first who - without necessarily signing an extension - expresses interest/confirms he''ll be willing to resign as an RFA without too much trouble at year end (so no speculating Pitt doesn't do this because his RFA status is somehow questionable).

Which team says yes, which team says no - and why?

Click to read more...

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I won't speak for Pittsburgh, but there is a zero percent chance Toronto even entertains this for a single second.

The way the team is being built, they are not in a position to be trading a 21 year old, just entering his prime for a 31 year old, no matter how great he is.

 

[StoneHands]

32 year old Crosby for 22 year old Matthews. Is this a serious question? Even if Crosby is better now (he is IMO) how long can we logically assume that to continue?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Not a chance Pittsburgh considers it

 

[Kamiccolo]

Are you serious? It's unlikely Matthews ever touches the pedigree of a career Sid has had but when one guy is into his 30's and the other just turned old enough to legally drink in the US, and they are scoring at a pretty similar rate... You take the young player every time.

And that is just from a strictly hockey standpoint. From a business perspective Sid is a known brand but his value as a brand is dwindling. Meanwhile you have 10 years of marketing "the next big thing" and likely 20 years of making money off of them vs Sid being retired within a decade.

I'd take a young Sid over Matthews without hesitation but when the difference in age is so vast, no one would deal a player like Matthews for a player 30's Crosby.

 

[JoVel]

Either only Pittsburgh does it or neither do it.

 

[bobholly39]

Are you serious? It's unlikely Matthews ever touches the pedigree of a career Sid has had but when one guy is into his 30's and the other just turned old enough to legally drink in the US, and they are scoring at a pretty similar rate... You take the young player every time.

And that is just from a strictly hockey standpoint. From a business perspective Sid is a known brand but his value as a brand is dwindling. Meanwhile you have 10 years of marketing "the next big thing" and likely 20 years of making money off of them vs Sid being retired within a decade.

I'd take a young Sid over Matthews without hesitation but when the difference in age is so vast, no one would deal a player like Matthews for a player 30's Crosby.

I mean there are obviously reasons to say no from Toronto but marketing/business wise this is 100% in favor of saying yes. Crosby is the face of hockey and has been for 15 years - especially in Canada. Hes still in top form too so its not like ur bringing in a 38 yr old on the verge of retirement.

Crosby in a Leafs jersey would be the best thing to ever hit toronto sports maybe in terms of marketing potential.

Hockey-wise the reason Toronto entertains this (assuming they do) is because they determine their window is right now and decide Ceosby can be of more help for a cup than Matthews in the next 1-4 years.

 

[McNuge]

Makes no sense from either teams end. Both of those players are the face of the team. Pittsburghs core is the same age as Crosby and ditto goes for Matthews.

 

[bobholly39]

32 year old Crosby for 22 year old Matthews. Is this a serious question? Even if Crosby is better now (he is IMO) how long can we logically assume that to continue?

I think from Torontos perspective it would be about going all in to win a cup (or more) in the next 1-4 years. Obviously you sacrifice long-term for doing so - but if the result is a cup (or 2) it could be worth it

 

[Regal]

Pittsburgh at least has to consider it due to age, but ultimately Sid is too big from a name/marketing perspective, and being the better player still currently, they're more concerned with winning again now. Sid doesn't move the needle on Toronto enough to give up the extra years of Matthews' prime. Neither team does it

 

[Randy Randerson]

I would guess that Pittsburgh does it, Crosby has been about a 90pt/82 game player for the past 5 seasons and Matthews looks like a good bet to be at least that going forward, so Pittsburgh doesn't really lose anything but the gravitas of the name "Sidney Crosby" while probably extending their compete window for years.

Toronto definitely does not do it

I think from Torontos perspective it would be about going all in to win a cup (or more) in the next 1-4 years. Obviously you sacrifice long-term for doing so - but if the result is a cup (or 2) it could be worth it

if you look at how teams that were built with the same blueprint as Toronto in the previous generation progressed through the contention cycle (Pitts, Chicago, Washington, etc) the contention windows are usually quite a bit longer than 1-4 years, closer to 8 years min and up to maybe 15 (we'll see with Pitts and Wash, they're still going)

I think that's also predicated on the idea that current Crosby is better than Matthews, which if you remove the name doesn't appear to be true

 

[Hugh Mungus]

these are getting out of hand jeeeesus

 

[bobholly39]

if you look at how teams that were built with the same blueprint as Toronto in the previous generation progressed through the contention cycle (Pitts, Chicago, Washington, etc) the contention windows are usually quite a bit longer than 1-4 years, closer to 8 years min and up to maybe 15 (we'll see with Pitts and Wash, they're still going)

I think that's also predicated on the idea that current Crosby is better than Matthews, which if you remove the name doesn't appear to be true

I fully expect Toronto's current core to be a top team in the NHL for closer to 8 years than 4, I agree (maybe more). But it's one thing to be a strong team/contender for a long time and another thing to *actually* win. Washington until last year hadn't ever won. Teams like San Jose and others have had strong teams/cores for a long time without actually winning.

The thought process behind Toronto doing this trade would be - "If we get Crosby we are definitely winning at least 1 cup in the next 3-4 years, maybe 2" instead of "We're going to contender for the next 10 years - we might win 1, we might win a few, or we might not win at all, with Matthews".

I think the edge in play for the next few years would be in terms of playoff edge, moreso than counting points over 82 games (though I'd still give Crosby a slight edge there, at least for now). Maybe Matthews can become some playoff guru and match/surpass Crosby in playoffs starting this very season - but to me Crosby remains the best bet for playoffs across the league. He brings amazing play on the ice - but also brings a lot of intangibles/leadership off the ice as a proven winner, which is very important come playoff time.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

From a purely emotional standpoint, pens would never trade Crosby. But even ignoring that, Crosby is better than Matthews right now so pens get worse which isn't what a contender wants from a trade. Leafs have a young core who will all be in their primes together, doesn't make sense to replace your 21 year old stud with a 31 year old stud.

Neither team does it.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I fully expect Toronto's current core to be a top team in the NHL for closer to 8 years than 4, I agree (maybe more). But it's one thing to be a strong team/contender for a long time and another thing to *actually* win. Washington until last year hadn't ever won. Teams like San Jose and others have had strong teams/cores for a long time without actually winning.

The thought process behind Toronto doing this trade would be - "If we get Crosby we are definitely winning at least 1 cup in the next 3-4 years, maybe 2" instead of "We're going to contender for the next 10 years - we might win 1, we might win a few, or we might not win at all, with Matthews".

I think the edge in play for the next few years would be in terms of playoff edge, moreso than counting points over 82 games (though I'd still give Crosby a slight edge there, at least for now). Maybe Matthews can become some playoff guru and match/surpass Crosby in playoffs starting this very season - but to me Crosby remains the best bet for playoffs across the league. He brings amazing play on the ice - but also brings a lot of intangibles/leadership off the ice as a proven winner, which is very important come playoff time.

I think there's a bit of an illusion of control here, there's a massive element of luck in any given playoffs and that really only starts to go away by getting into a contending position for a long time. The best team in the NHL any given year has about a 1 in 6 chance to win the cup, so the idea that getting X player means definitely winning the cup just won't hold up in real life, so I think anyone buying into that thought process is not being objective

I'm willing to credit Matthews as a 90ish point talent right now given his pedigree and that he's pacing for way more than that in an 82 game season, plus 90pts in his last 81 regular season games. That's right around what Crosby has been for 5 years now, and while I do agree that if I need to win tonight I put Crosby in my lineup given the choice I don't think there's a tangible gap between them at this point

 

[Dondini]

Neither team does it, pretty simple. Crosby is better now but probably for not to much longer. But Sid is an icon in Pittsburgh and he’s going to remain a penguin until the end

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Neither team would do this. Toronto is building a young powerhouse and Crosby is an icon in Pittsburgh that is still a perennial contender.

 

[COHawk]

TOR says no for the future. PIT says no because Crosby retires a Pen.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

A teams ultimate goal is to win the cup Crosby is light years better than Matthews in every aspect of the game especially in the playoffs.
No brainer for the leafs. Crosby tavares down the middle would be filthy. Matthews will probably lay an egg in the playoffs again this year.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

31 year old vs. 21 year old.

... Why is this even a question?

 

[Taluss]

I wouldnt do it as Pens since id have that sense of loyalty for Sid. However this would certainly favour them long term.

Easy pass from Tor

 

[Maestro84]

Makes zero sense for both teams

Toronto has waited decades to draft a player as promising as AM34, and in the post-Mario era, Crosby has been Pittsburgh. The majority of the pens core is around the same age as Sid and have a similar lengthy pedigree in terms of postseason success, while Matthews and the Leafs are just beginning their story.

If this trade were to somehow go through in a hypothetical world, the Leafs win this trade easily. Crosby would automatically be the greatest player to ever put on a Leafs jersey AINEC, which would probably allow the Leafs to be the favorites for the cup over the next couple years. This is a massive L for Pittsburgh since not only did they trade their ATG franchise player, but by the time Matthews reaches his full prime, the rest of the pens core is gonna be well past theirs

 

[koyvoo]

Even though Matthews is Toronto’s 2nd next player and Crosby is Pittsburgh’s best, it makes no sense because of the age difference.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Anyone saying no from pens is doing so based on loyalty and emotions. That’s fine, valid reason to keep him, but it would make zero hockey sense for the Pens to turn that down.

 

[bobholly39]

Anyone saying no from pens is doing so based on loyalty and emotions. That’s fine, valid reason to keep him, but it would make zero hockey sense for the Pens to turn that down.

Pen's cup window is right now and Crosby is better for a cup run than Matthews certainly for this year - and most probably for the next 2-3 years too.

That would be the reasoning for keeping him based on purely hockey reasons.