Sick of it; and losing patience. Long rant....

[Coyotedroppings]

oh yea makes sense. I'll drive 1.5 hours in traffic to the middle of Bum Yuk Egypt to watch this product?
No thanks.
I would more often to the east valley where more people with money would support the team.
More fans>more revenue> keep some of our players and add more.

But had you and others driven the distance all along, perhaps we have a better product currently? Seems a chicken or the egg scenario here, to me.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

But had you and others driven the distance all along, perhaps we have a better product currently? Seems a chicken or the egg scenario here, to me.

Before this devolves into another pissing contest between the east and west factions, I feel I should reiterate a point here, and that is that no matter where you live in the Phoenix Metro area, the odds of you paying a premium price to go see a crappy sports product are dismally low.

It's that way with hockey, baseball, football, basketball, soccer, auto racing, golf, lacrosse (remember the Sting?), etc. The only sports that have a truly devoted-at-all-costs built-in audience in Arizona are ASU and U of A athletics. For everything else, there's just too much other stuff to do in this town, which makes inconveniencing oneself and one's wallet around a terrible product very unsatisfactory. Why would @azcanuck drive all the way out to GRA to see a game like the one against Calgary? Why would I drive 1.5 hours to Tempe to see them do something similar should the new barn go in there?

Fact is, part of the reason why Canadian franchises do so well is that they've had a century of hockey being the only damn thing to do in all that ice and snow during the late fall, winter, and early spring. During those same months, Arizona has the best weather in North America - so the incentive to stuff yourself into a hockey arena to watch a bunch of twenty-something pro athletes making multiples of your annual salary putzing around lackadaisically just isn't there like it might be in, say, Minneapolis, Chicago, or Winnipeg.

The incremental gains of an arena closer to a specific knot of die-hard hockey fans won't be enough to change this franchise's fortunes if the ownership remains as parsimonious and raggedy as it has been since the bankruptcy. Even if the team were to break even, Barroway doesn't have enough discretionary income to free up to do anything major. So what we should be doing - rather than putting our hopes and dreams on the head of a pin stuck in a map - is crossing our fingers that whoever buys out Barroway has a war chest that can help drag this benighted franchise out of the wallow it's been stuck in for a decade.

 

[Jamieh]

Before this devolves into another pissing contest between the east and west factions, I feel I should reiterate a point here, and that is that no matter where you live in the Phoenix Metro area, the odds of you paying a premium price to go see a crappy sports product are dismally low.

It's that way with hockey, baseball, football, basketball, soccer, auto racing, golf, lacrosse (remember the Sting?), etc. The only sports that have a truly devoted-at-all-costs built-in audience in Arizona are ASU and U of A athletics. For everything else, there's just too much other stuff to do in this town, which makes inconveniencing oneself and one's wallet around a terrible product very unsatisfactory. Why would @azcanuck drive all the way out to GRA to see a game like the one against Calgary? Why would I drive 1.5 hours to Tempe to see them do something similar should the new barn go in there?

Fact is, part of the reason why Canadian franchises do so well is that they've had a century of hockey being the only damn thing to do in all that ice and snow during the late fall, winter, and early spring. During those same months, Arizona has the best weather in North America - so the incentive to stuff yourself into a hockey arena to watch a bunch of twenty-something pro athletes making multiples of your annual salary putzing around lackadaisically just isn't there like it might be in, say, Minneapolis, Chicago, or Winnipeg.

The incremental gains of an arena closer to a specific knot of die-hard hockey fans won't be enough to change this franchise's fortunes if the ownership remains as parsimonious and raggedy as it has been since the bankruptcy. Even if the team were to break even, Barroway doesn't have enough discretionary income to free up to do anything major. So what we should be doing - rather than putting our hopes and dreams on the head of a pin stuck in a map - is crossing our fingers that whoever buys out Barroway has a war chest that can help drag this benighted franchise out of the wallow it's been stuck in for a decade.

IMO it also relates to number of fans. While you only need 17 to 20 thousand to fill a rink in AZ that might require getting 25% of actual hockey fans in the area at games whereas in places like Winnipeg that might only require getting 5% of fans out to games. While both probably fill the rink when team is good the other gives extra fans an actual chance to attend a game.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

IMO it also relates to number of fans. While you only need 17 to 20 thousand to fill a rink in AZ that might require getting 25% of actual hockey fans in the area at games whereas in places like Winnipeg that might only require getting 5% of fans out to games. While both probably fill the rink when team is good the other gives extra fans an actual chance to attend a game.

There is something to this - but again, this circles back around to the team ownership. Simply put, the Coyotes' marketing has sucked - and it has sucked for way longer than we've been suspended in this state of arrested development that started with the bankruptcy. I will say this - what Ahron Cohen is doing right now is the first really good effort I've seen in Coyotes marketing since I first became a season-ticket holder. But it's obvious as hell that he's working within the limits of a very constrained budget. There has to be money for a sustained outreach into the market to drive up interest in demographics other than die-hard hockey fans, no matter where the building is. Customer retention is cheaper than customer acquisition (thanks, Shark Tank!), but the only way this team survives in Arizona is to do the latter - so we need an ownership group who can afford it, because Barroway certainly can't.

 

[Lilhoody]

I've given up hope of trying to understand OEL's thought processes. Only thing I can say for sure is that for a guy who everyone thought was this great leader, he hasn't looked like one according to the eye test. He certainly doesn't seem like the hardest-working player on the ice most nights.

Not everyone

 

[Jamieh]

Not everyone

I have questioned for years what OEL is exactly and if his give a poop meter is engaged.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

I think OEL cares, I don't think the leadership problem is entirely on him, he seems like passive guy and the problem is all the other vets around him are the same. We need someone to yell at everyone when they're playing like balls

Watch any interview with him, he seems like a big socially awkward nerd. Wouldn't be surprised if it was him and Domi who were the ones who were clashing in the locker room if that rumor was true.

 

[Jakey53]

Before this devolves into another pissing contest between the east and west factions, I feel I should reiterate a point here, and that is that no matter where you live in the Phoenix Metro area, the odds of you paying a premium price to go see a crappy sports product are dismally low.

It's that way with hockey, baseball, football, basketball, soccer, auto racing, golf, lacrosse (remember the Sting?), etc. The only sports that have a truly devoted-at-all-costs built-in audience in Arizona are ASU and U of A athletics. For everything else, there's just too much other stuff to do in this town, which makes inconveniencing oneself and one's wallet around a terrible product very unsatisfactory. Why would @azcanuck drive all the way out to GRA to see a game like the one against Calgary? Why would I drive 1.5 hours to Tempe to see them do something similar should the new barn go in there?

Fact is, part of the reason why Canadian franchises do so well is that they've had a century of hockey being the only damn thing to do in all that ice and snow during the late fall, winter, and early spring. During those same months, Arizona has the best weather in North America - so the incentive to stuff yourself into a hockey arena to watch a bunch of twenty-something pro athletes making multiples of your annual salary putzing around lackadaisically just isn't there like it might be in, say, Minneapolis, Chicago, or Winnipeg.

The incremental gains of an arena closer to a specific knot of die-hard hockey fans won't be enough to change this franchise's fortunes if the ownership remains as parsimonious and raggedy as it has been since the bankruptcy. Even if the team were to break even, Barroway doesn't have enough discretionary income to free up to do anything major. So what we should be doing - rather than putting our hopes and dreams on the head of a pin stuck in a map - is crossing our fingers that whoever buys out Barroway has a war chest that can help drag this benighted franchise out of the wallow it's been stuck in for a decade.

Winning solves everything. How many times do I have to say it. If we were in the SCF's or SCSF's people would drive hours and hours to watch. IF we were in the playoffs every year, we would have a sold out barn on most nights.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I think OEL cares, I don't think the leadership problem is entirely on him, he seems like passive guy and the problem is all the other vets around him are the same. We need someone to yell at everyone when they're playing like balls

Watch any interview with him, he seems like a big socially awkward nerd. Wouldn't be surprised if it was him and Domi who were the ones who were clashing in the locker room if that rumor was true.

I've had lunch with OEL on two separate occasions, he's not a socially awkward nerd at all. He is a kind hearted / respectful young man and while I don't see him as a yeller, if he were to, it would mean something for certain.
I've always liked a Capt'n to lead by example, with hustle ala Bobby Clarke, but OEL's so damn smooth he'll never come off as any Charlie hustle type.

 

[azcanuck]

But had you and others driven the distance all along, perhaps we have a better product currently? Seems a chicken or the egg scenario here, to me.

For sure. Not disagreeing at all.
If we all thought spending money and driving that distance was worth it we'd do it.
But we don't....

 

[azcanuck]

I've had lunch with OEL on two separate occasions, he's not a socially awkward nerd at all. He is a kind hearted / respectful young man and while I don't see him as a yeller, if he were to, it would mean something for certain.
I've always liked a Capt'n to lead by example, with hustle ala Bobby Clarke, but OEL's so damn smooth he'll never come off as any Charlie hustle type.

He's just your typical Swede. doesn't mean the leadership style is any less effective.
I've played with and coached many players. I'd rather my leader be quiet and respected and let most of his "talking" occur on the ice.
Most fans have Zero idea what a good captain dictates and you surely cannot measure it by watching games on t.v.
only the Yotes know internally if OEL is a good captain.

 

[azcanuck]

So you'd go see this terrible on-ice product more frequently if it was closer and there were more people with big wallets sitting around you?

Yes being closer it's less of a pain in the ass getting there and I'd probably increase my times per year watching them. for sure.

 

[johnchayka89]

Yes being closer it's less of a pain in the ass getting there and I'd probably increase my times per year watching them. for sure.

Where, in Seattle?

 

[RufusG]

they are softer than a stool after a juice fast.

Nice turn of phrase. Hockey the Soft Way.

 

[Heldig]

Anyone with an update on the ownership saga?

 

[BUX7PHX]

I think marketing is a problem, along with in-game activity. If anyone has a chance to get to a Dallas Stars game, those guys are on their toes during the game. Great music selection during breaks in action (whereas with the Coyotes, it's the same old songs over and over and over. We could probably play song bingo in the arena the same way that we have done with our game day threads). Fans are kept active, and they have some funny little clips that they will show that use players in them (not just a "5 questions with <insert name>").

If the game winds up being a downer, the in-game experience makes you feel like it was fun, even though the outcome wasn't the anticipated one. I don't know if you can say that about the games in Glendale. The game should be an experience, especially since many people may be getting introduced to hockey here.

 

[Lawson of Anarchy]

We could probably play song bingo in the arena the same way that we have done with our game day threads).

Rush - Tom Sawyer is a free space