Sick of it; and losing patience. Long rant....

drgregg

SLAP CHOP
Jun 7, 2012
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I have a problem with the systematic dumping off of what few quality players we have had come through this roster since 2012 with practically nothing to show for it at the end of the day.
I have a problem with bringing in prospects and apparently attempting to rebuild without a true stomach for it or any discernible plan to develop them.
I have a problem with taking a short sighted move whenever possible and having no positive to show for it in the short or long term.
I have a problem with with seemingly no model as to the type of players they are looking for to fit the mould of this team. We have players that are fast and players that are slow, players that are large and players that are small, players that make smart plays and players that make stupid ones. The only constant that seems to link them all is that they are softer than a stool after a juice fast.
I have a problem with with coaches that inspire no confidence that they have any solutions over long or short courses of time.
I have a problem with a media that asks no questions or makes any attempt to ask questions or get answers about any of these things.
The proof is on my tv every few days, a team that has been terrible for years with no end in sight; playing in an empty arena where every game looks and sounds like a poorly attended away game and no one inside of the organization seeming to give a shit.
The handful of posters that are still on this board seem to care far more than anyone who is actually employed in and around this team.
 

SR

Registered User
Mar 31, 2008
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Maybe the first year in Scottsdale would be full, but no one supports a team in this town that doesn't win. You'd get the folks saying "Hey, let's go see the new arena" and such and probably a lot of east valley people that don't make the drive to Glendale now. But that only lasts a year, tops, if they don't win. That's not going to happen unless there are sweeping changes.

Kind of makes me wonder if OEL has a real desire to win. There's no pressure to do so here, and I know $8 mil/year makes it easy to stay. I like the guy but I have to wonder if he's loyal of if he enjoys a pressure-free career more.

I can certainly respect that. Not sure we will ever get the chance to see that unfold, unfortunately.

If they were still this bad as we are currently, place may look no different than the current arena.

However, if they were a winner I could see it being stable.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
42,631
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The only constant that seems to link them all is that they are softer than a stool after a juice fast.

The handful of posters that are still on this board seem to care far more than anyone who is actually employed in and around this team.

:laugh:

Yesterday a new poster (who hasn't posted yet AFAIK) with the name "CursedFranchise" liked a few posts.

Seemed apropos.
 
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Sinurgy

Approaching infinity
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Feb 8, 2004
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I have a problem with bringing in prospects and apparently attempting to rebuild without a true stomach for it
Which is what makes it extra brutal because about the only thing worse than a full rebuild is one where you endure the pain but bail before the gain. The Coyotes are that idiot Naked and Afraid person who bails a couple of days before their extraction. Like what the f***, why did you suffer through all that just to quit in the end? That's the Coyotes though, all pain no gain, forever seekers of the global minima.
 

Prarievarg

On the hype lokomotiv
Oct 27, 2016
1,838
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Got my kachina jersey yesterday after waiting for it for weeks to ship from US to Sweden. Felt indifferent opening the package, normally I would be ecstatic.

Of course, it arrived at the worst f***ing time. And of course, because im an idiot and have invested too much in this cursed franchise, I'll come around. I'll get my hopes up the next time we win two in a row, or someone posts a video on Hayton or POJ.
 

che

Registered User
Jan 6, 2018
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Got my kachina jersey yesterday after waiting for it for weeks to ship from US to Sweden. Felt indifferent opening the package, normally I would be ecstatic.

Of course, it arrived at the worst ****ing time. And of course, because im an idiot and have invested too much in this cursed franchise, I'll come around. I'll get my hopes up the next time we win two in a row, or someone posts a video on Hayton or POJ.
How much did it cost with shipping and everything? I'm looking to get one myself.
 

azcanuck

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Jan 14, 2014
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Excellent post. I agree with most of it. The only hope this franchise has is a new arena in the east valley with a good owner. That should bring in revenue and crowds and mitigate all the factors that are keeping it down.
My biggest beef with the team has always been there stellar play in the last part of the season when nothing mattered and they lost draft stock. And the horrible luck of losing out on Eichel and McDavid and getting stuck with Strome. That was the worst.
 

azcanuck

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Jan 14, 2014
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I'm 19 years old teenager from Finland, i have been a fan since like 2010 (followed regularly since like 2014). This is first time when i legitimately think that i maybe wouldn't care if the team was moves outside of desert.

Gosh, i didn't know anything about NHL, when i became a "fan". I'm really sad about that i chose this dumpster dive as a 10 yo, like any other organisation would have been so much better


Edit: Maybe i'm overreacting, don't bash me please. I really just haven't had this kind of I feeling about Yotes ever before

I moved to the desert from Canada in 1994 and was a huge Montreal Canadian fan. Slowly I've become a Coyote fan as well.
I saw the very first exhibition game here as well as the opener.
it used to be a blast to go downtown and watch the coyotes . They had a great vibe with Roenick/Tkachuk and some good Finnish players in Teppo too. proof hockey can work here. The media was really involved in the yotes too. Not so much now. The franchise is like watching the zombies on Walking Dead. I've been to two games so far this year and yawned through most of it and couldn't wait for the game to end. Getting out of the parking lot is so easy !!
 
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Jakey53

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Aug 27, 2011
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It pains me to write this. I am a STH, loyal fan and I have many close friends at the highest levels of the organization - but it just seems as if this is a cursed franchise that is completely devoid of having the ability to make the right moves or create any luck.

We all know the organization is cash-strapped; which is beyond frustrating. But even teams with lower payrolls have had success in the NHL, even though the success may be short-lived. The lack of cash for year after year after year after seems to have taken a toll of which there may be no way to overcome. And I do believe that the complete and utter incompetence of ownership reached a zenith with the selection of Dylan Strome. That one pick set us back years. Where am I going with this? Well, if you don't have the ability to lure and pay free agents, you need to build in the draft; and our past drafts have been an epic dumpster fire. Go back and look at the talent we could have stockpiled over the years, it will surely depress you. No money and no scouting is a bad combo, and we are paying the price now.

And I do believe there is a cultural issue. Just look at how ineffective and unmotivated players are here....until they leave. I know that these are professional athletes and the atmosphere in which they play in should not have any effect on their performance; but my theory is that it absolutely does. Think about it; these guys grew up playing in packed arenas night after night. Their college or junior bands were packed, fans were engaged and they had pressure to perform. Our entire atmosphere is pathetic. The arena is half empty and when it is filled, it is mostly with opposing teams' fans. Our building is in the middle of nowhere and the players live far away from it. The fans lack energy because they are so used to a terrible product. There is ZERO energy. There is ZERO press coverage. There is ZERO pressure to perform. There is ZERO accountability from the fans, press and management because they know the team cannot afford to actually do anything. Imagine players like Gally and Hino and Hammer coming from places like MTL and CHI where 21,000 rabid fans pack the joint each night...and then imagine taking the ice here for the anthem and seeing sections completely empty. If the fans don't care and the city doesn't care....perhaps the players just don't care.

But the bottom line is that the product just stinks. Almost a full half of the roster would be 4th liners (if not in the AHL) with any other franchise. Fischer, Perlini, Archibald, Cousins, Panik, Richie, KConn, Oesterlee, and perhaps even Strome and Crouse. An argument could be made that 10 of our 23 man roster would not even make an NHL roster with a different organization. And our "top-line" talent is not the kind that can put a team on their back, i.e., Ovie, Crosby, Kane, etc. This team is just not a good team and is far from it.

What is most frustrating is the inability to develop players. This is where I just have no answer. Domi, Strome and Duclair are just a few....but look back at the scouts for years taking about the young talent this team had.....none of them have done anything with the Coyotes. None except for Keller who now looks like a shell of the player her was last year. Perhaps the fact that there is never enough talent around them stymies the development of our youngsters? I don't know.

What I do know is that I am so close to kissing this team good bye. I am sick of a bad product. I am sick of an empty arena without any energy. I am sick of fearing relocation every year. I am sick of garbage owners. I am sick of driving to Glendale. I am sick of a lack of stability. I am sick of NEVER signing any great free agents. I am sick of not even sniffing the playoffs. I am sick of feeling like the team is a minor league organization. I am sick of being a cap floor team. I have stood by the organization through all of the BS...and it is starting to finally take a toll. I don't know where to go as a fan; I am just sick of loving this team.

Good post and I agree with most of what your are saying. Then I look at the sad sack Cardinals and I feel better. Money doesn't necessarily mean success. Talking Coyotes is like talking politics.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
29,978
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I moved to the desert from Canada in 1994 and was a huge Montreal Canadian fan. Slowly I've become a Coyote fan as well.
I saw the very first exhibition game here as well as the opener.
it used to be a blast to go downtown and watch the coyotes . They had a great vibe with Roenick/Tkachuk and some good Finnish players in Teppo too. proof hockey can work here. The media was really involved in the yotes too. Not so much now. The franchise is like watching the zombies on Walking Dead. I've been to two games so far this year and yawned through most of it and couldn't wait for the game to end. Getting out of the parking lot is so easy !!

Winning will cure everything.
 

Llewzaher

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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The problem with the yotes is it seems like they live in a fishbowl , and can only see what's in front of their face... Talking coaching here...

This team was rocking up until 3 weeks ago... Even when they went 1 and 4 at the start of the year , they were playing the right way , they were all engaged, and were extremely exciting to watch...

Even fans from other teams were always talking about what a treat it was to watch the Yotes..

Then we started playing like crap , but we kept on winning . Thats a recipe for disaster. It engrains bad habits , and gets you into a funk you cant get out of. Even Tocc is confused ... He thinks 5 on 5 play is fine.... Totally reminds me of Tippett here.

Absolutely delusional , they players and the coaches have no answer... Hopefully the trade is a wake up call ..

If we get back to where we a few weeks ago , the world is a better place , birds and butterflies , people can come back in off the ledge.

I feel everyones pain .. I was. Jets fan before they moved to the desert.. I Have been through it all. Other than the 2012 season, this is the first year I felt the team is finally turning it around ( since they moved to Glendale) . I think they had awesoem teams when they were downtown PHO)

I think the last few games , lacklustre effort are one thing, but the Strome trade really hit home for me ... alot of emotions come back from that draft... How we missed on our pick ..then you add it to the Hayton pick , you hope history doesnt repeat itself.

Chayka pulled the bandaid off with the trade ... Now we ned to move on...

If we dont pull out of it , I will start watching ( and I cant believe the words are coming of my mouth) the habs .. Only because of Domi
 

azcanuck

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Jan 14, 2014
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Winning will cure everything.
You don't want to rely on "winning". If the coyotes were in first place they would draw more to Glendale. but it still would be a crap location.
Move the team to a new arena in the east valley and it would be manageable . Create more revenue which would allow us to keep our good players and even sign more. Which would build a good fan base for the long term.
This team will never be anything but a joke out in Glendale.
 

Coyotedroppings

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Jul 16, 2017
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The franchise is like watching the zombies on Walking Dead. I've been to two games so far this year and yawned through most of it and couldn't wait for the game to end. Getting out of the parking lot is so easy !!
Or you could be part of the solution? :dunno:
 

The Feckless Puck

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Oct 26, 2006
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You don't want to rely on "winning". If the coyotes were in first place they would draw more to Glendale. but it still would be a crap location.
Move the team to a new arena in the east valley and it would be manageable . Create more revenue which would allow us to keep our good players and even sign more. Which would build a good fan base for the long term.
This team will never be anything but a joke out in Glendale.

You guys keep talking about this like it'd be a magic bullet.

If the ownership sucks, it doesn't matter where the arena is located.

For instance, if they bring the same tired, sterile ambiance from GRA to a theoretical new east side arena, none of the wealthy folks out there who are supposed to be the team's salvation are going to want to bother to show up - particularly if the team still sucks.
 

Coyotes2000

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Jun 25, 2007
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You guys keep talking about this like it'd be a magic bullet.

If the ownership sucks, it doesn't matter where the arena is located.

For instance, if they bring the same tired, sterile ambiance from GRA to a theoretical new east side arena, none of the wealthy folks out there who are supposed to be the team's salvation are going to want to bother to show up - particularly if the team still sucks.
This is your opinion, but the move to the East Side will do wonders financially for this team.

As a base.. yes you still need to win and make winning a part of the franchise culture but you need that stable healthy base of operations.
 

GhostofTommyBolin

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Aug 18, 2016
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This is your opinion, but the move to the East Side will do wonders financially for this team.

As a base.. yes you still need to win and make winning a part of the franchise culture but you need that stable healthy base of operations.

This magical, theoretical move to the East Valley isn't going to change anything beyond maybe one season. You really think free agents are going to suddenly start looking at coming to Arizona merely because they could live a short drive from the arena? Downtown wasn't much of a drive and they didn't sign any big names when they played down there.

It's not just the Coyotes; aside from Zack Greinke and his $35 million a year, name one big free agent that was in demand at the time they signed that has signed to play here. There aren't any. For whatever reason, free agents avoid Phoenix like it's a crazy ex-wife.
 
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The Feckless Puck

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It's not just the Coyotes; aside from Zack Greinke and his $35 million a year, name one big free agent that was in demand at the time they signed that has signed to play here. There aren't any. For whatever reason, free agents avoid Phoenix like it's a crazy ex-wife.

Free agents sign with Phoenix teams when the teams are winning or clearly on the ascension. Same as everywhere else. Only differences between us and other markets right now are that our local franchises are all in down periods and only one franchise - the Diamondbacks - has shown any sort of administrative aptitude over the past five years (and that was after LaRussa's crowd nearly broke it completely).

I'll tell you what free agents look at, in order:
  1. The team's record;
  2. The team's success trend;
  3. The number of zeroes in the offer;
  4. Who's coaching the team;
  5. The conventional wisdom about the ownership;
  6. The market itself.
None of them look at the drive to and from the arena as any real motivating factor. They're going to find the best community with the best schools for their kids (if they have them) or the best access to nightlife (if they're single) no matter where they play. I remember watching an NHL video of Chris Pronger when he was with Anaheim and his drive to the Duck Pond was even longer than the drive from Scottsdale to Glendale (and on California freeways, to boot).

If this team was winning games consistently and showing talent doing so... if they were perennial playoff contenders... then we'd have no problem getting people in the door, whether it was Glendale, Scottsdale, Ahwatukee, or Tempe. And free agents would want to come here because they'd have a shot at the Cup. No amount of great golf weather, gated communities, or tony Scottsdale bars and restaurants is going to be enough to seduce impact players to ink a contract here if the team sucks, has a lousy coaching staff, and has a questionable owner - particularly if there is a danger of having to be forced to move to another market altogether in the next couple of years.
 

lbh23

Registered User
May 10, 2012
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Free agents don't avoid Phoenix.....our owners typically don't have the money (or are not willing to spend the money) to make enticing offers to free agents. The Cards have been an exception to the rule as of late, but the ownership groups of the Coyotes, Suns and DBacks just don't have the luxury of being able to spend to buy wins - and they also don't have the luxury of massive generational fan bases who will be patient through a rebuild process.

Specifically as to the Yotes, if this organization was ever anything other than a complete and total dumpster fire I do believe free agents would LOVE to sign here. There are probably more ex-NHL players that live in Phoenix than any other North American city outside of Canada. The players love it here and Canadians love it here. If this team was buttressed with solid ownership, some level of hope, and a packed arena every night with a chance at a Cup, players would be lined up to sign huge deals and live in the desert.

That being said, my biggest frustration with this franchise is that they have created a culture where even the players that are here don't want to be here. I think that when players get traded out of here, they are relieved to escape the ****show that is the Arizona Coyotes.

And for those who don't think the arena is at the heart of all of this. It is. Plain and simple. If I were really to get into the analytics of the situation, it would be pages and pages long. That being said, the current arena and location costs the team at least 10-20M per year. That is potentially the salary of 2-3 stars that would be difference makers. The problems with this franchise start with the current arena and end with the current arena, it is the ultimate Catch 22....can't create cash flows with the current arena to create a winning team; and can't move (build/invest) to a new arena without a winning team that creates excess cash flows. I just don't know how this all works out....and I also don't see where they can go.
 

Jamieh

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Apr 25, 2012
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Free agents don't avoid Phoenix.....our owners typically don't have the money (or are not willing to spend the money) to make enticing offers to free agents. The Cards have been an exception to the rule as of late, but the ownership groups of the Coyotes, Suns and DBacks just don't have the luxury of being able to spend to buy wins - and they also don't have the luxury of massive generational fan bases who will be patient through a rebuild process.

Specifically as to the Yotes, if this organization was ever anything other than a complete and total dumpster fire I do believe free agents would LOVE to sign here. There are probably more ex-NHL players that live in Phoenix than any other North American city outside of Canada. The players love it here and Canadians love it here. If this team was buttressed with solid ownership, some level of hope, and a packed arena every night with a chance at a Cup, players would be lined up to sign huge deals and live in the desert.

That being said, my biggest frustration with this franchise is that they have created a culture where even the players that are here don't want to be here. I think that when players get traded out of here, they are relieved to escape the ****show that is the Arizona Coyotes.

And for those who don't think the arena is at the heart of all of this. It is. Plain and simple. If I were really to get into the analytics of the situation, it would be pages and pages long. That being said, the current arena and location costs the team at least 10-20M per year. That is potentially the salary of 2-3 stars that would be difference makers. The problems with this franchise start with the current arena and end with the current arena, it is the ultimate Catch 22....can't create cash flows with the current arena to create a winning team; and can't move (build/invest) to a new arena without a winning team that creates excess cash flows. I just don't know how this all works out....and I also don't see where they can go.
Just on the cost side, that same $10 to $20 million the arena is costing the team might be gone with actually having to pay for an arena leaving no net gain on that front. Unless of course you can swindle another City into building it and letting you play for free.
 

azcanuck

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Jan 14, 2014
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chandler az
Or you could be part of the solution? :dunno:
oh yea makes sense. I'll drive 1.5 hours in traffic to the middle of Bum Yuk Egypt to watch this product?
No thanks.
I would more often to the east valley where more people with money would support the team.
More fans>more revenue> keep some of our players and add more.
 

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