Should The Sharks Sign MDZ?

[Juxtaposer]

Well agree to disagree. I've had a ****** enough day and am not in the mood to argue with you, as using think I've ever seen you admit you were wrong, so this will go no where.

Well don't take your ******** out on me. Besides, it's not like you ever admit you're wrong.

 

[CanadienShark]

Well don't take your ******** out on me. Besides, it's not like you ever admit you're wrong.

I do admit it. In fact, I think I over exaggerated my numbers. I'd go as high as $2m on a one year deal. I didn't take anything out on you. Trust me, I'm stubborn as hell, but so are you. We both let it cloud our judgement sometimes. And seriously, I only ever see you quote me just to insult me or tell me I'm wrong. I'm tired of listening to you. You're a bright hockey mind and I respect your intelligence, but you constantly come across as stuck up. I don't always agree with you, but I often do.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I do admit it. In fact, I think I over exaggerated my numbers. I'd go as high as $2m on a one year deal. I didn't take anything out on you. Trust me, I'm stubborn as hell, but so are you. We both let it cloud our judgement sometimes. And seriously, I only ever see you quote me just to insult me or tell me I'm wrong. I'm tired of listening to you. You're a bright hockey mind and I respect your intelligence, but you constantly come across as stuck up. I don't always agree with you, but I often do.

So admit you're wrong about Phaneuf.

Feel free to block me if that pleases you.

 

[CanadienShark]

So admit you're wrong about Phaneuf.

Feel free to block me if that pleases you.

No, it doesn't please me. As I said before, I respect your opinion. No, I don't think I'm wrong. He's a poor mans #1 or a good #2 in my books.

I don't see why you seem to hate me so much. Whatever.

 

[Juxtaposer]

No, it doesn't please me. As I said before, I respect your opinion. No, I don't think I'm wrong. He's a poor mans #1 or a good #2 in my books.

I don't see why you seem to hate me so much. Whatever.

I don't hate you. I just want you to justify your opinion. Why do you think that Phaneuf is a top-30 defenseman? I've said over and over why I think he isn't. I've pointed out what I think are Del Zotto's flaws. If you think differently, I'd love to hear why, not just that you do.

 

[CanadienShark]

I don't hate you. I just want you to justify your opinion. Why do you think that Phaneuf is a top-30 defenseman? I've said over and over why I think he isn't. I've pointed out what I think are Del Zotto's flaws. If you think differently, I'd love to hear why, not just that you do.

Well seeing as I can't use my computer to post, it'll be brief. I think his defensive misgivings are massively overstated. His defensive IQ isn't the greatest, but he's a "good enough" anchor for a defence. I think that he has a pretty poor supporting cast, which does not complement his abilities at all. If he were paired with a great skating #2 like Braun, I think people's opinions would change. I like his booming shot. I like his hitting ability, though it often harms his positioning. His skating is poor, yes. I think that he still has the talent, and in the right system, he'd excel. I think he is overpaid by about a million, but that's another debate. His issues would be fixed by a better coach, imo. Or at least alleviated. Positioning is the biggest qualm I have.

EDIT: I don't use advanced statistics and this is purely based on what I see. I usually listen to informed opinions, but regarding Phaneuf, I tend to take them with a bigger grain of salt than usual.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Well seeing as I can't use my computer to post, it'll be brief. I think his defensive misgivings are massively overstated. His defensive IQ isn't the greatest, but he's a "good enough" anchor for a defence. I think that he has a pretty poor supporting cast, which does not complement his abilities at all. If he were paired with a great skating #2 like Braun, I think people's opinions would change. I like his booming shot. I like his hitting ability, though it often harms his positioning. His skating is poor, yes. I think that he still has the talent, and in the right system, he'd excel. I think he is overpaid by about a million, but that's another debate.

EDIT: I don't use advanced statistics and this is purely based on what I see. I usually listen to informed opinions, but regarding Phaneuf, I tend to take them with a bigger grain of salt than usual.

If you're unable to use your computer to post, we can save this debate for another day. There are several things I disagree with here (specifically his hockey IQ), but I guess the one question I'll ask is this: If you think he's a #1 defenseman, then how can he be overpaid at $7M? If he's a #1 defenseman, then surely he's worth more than $6M, which is what you seem to think he should be paid.

As for advanced stats, here's the thing: Stats make Phaneuf look like a bottom pairing defenseman. It's because I know that he plays on a bad team with a horrible coach and system and linemates that I think he's a #3, and not a #6 that the stats suggest he is.

And I have to ask what informed opinions on Phaneuf you're listening to. Because the Leafs fans that I believe have "informed opinions" on Phaneuf all think similarly of Phaneuf as I do.

 

[hohosaregood]

Well...in regards to Phaneuf, it's hard to objectively say that he definitely sucks especially in terms of advanced stat. Toronto is a statistical anomaly. However, he played way harder competition than the rest of his defensive partners. So...I wouldn't make a decisive call on the matter until he was playing in not Toronto.

I can't really say much about Del Zotto except that he probably does suck other than the points. If he's still around during training camp, they should just offer a try out and see what's up.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Phaneuf ideally is a #3. His most effective seasons in Calgary were because he was insulated by in prime versions of Regher, Roman Hamrlick, Rhett Warrener, Andrew Ference, Adrian Aucoin, Corey Sarich etc. Now he's being asked to be a true #1 and he doesn't think the game well enough for that role. Just my opinion. Put him in San Jose with Vlasic, Braun and Burns..he gets back to the big hitting, goal scoring Dion.

 

[CanadienShark]

If you're unable to use your computer to post, we can save this debate for another day. There are several things I disagree with here (specifically his hockey IQ), but I guess the one question I'll ask is this: If you think he's a #1 defenseman, then how can he be overpaid at $7M? If he's a #1 defenseman, then surely he's worth more than $6M, which is what you seem to think he should be paid.

As for advanced stats, here's the thing: Stats make Phaneuf look like a bottom pairing defenseman. It's because I know that he plays on a bad team with a horrible coach and system and linemates that I think he's a #3, and not a #6 that the stats suggest he is.

And I have to ask what informed opinions on Phaneuf you're listening to. Because the Leafs fans that I believe have "informed opinions" on Phaneuf all think similarly of Phaneuf as I do.

Yes, we can. Just as soon as I get internet set up at my new place, but I have a psycho who's subletting my friend's room over the summer and she wouldn't pay me for internet so it may take a while. I said that I normally do listen to informed opinions, but take them with a grain of salt in this case, as many people have an irrational hatred for Phaneuf.

 

[hohosaregood]

Phaneuf ideally is a #3. His most effective seasons in Calgary were because he was insulated by in prime versions of Regher, Roman Hamrlick, Rhett Warrener, Andrew Ference, Adrian Aucoin, Corey Sarich etc. Now he's being asked to be a true #1 and he doesn't think the game well enough for that role. Just my opinion. Put him in San Jose with Vlasic, Braun and Burns..he gets back to the big hitting, goal scoring Dion.

He's also basically in a situation where he's been one of maybe 2 or 3 competent defenseman. No depth to help him out but I wouldn't really call him a legit #1 either.

 

[CanadienShark]

Phaneuf ideally is a #3. His most effective seasons in Calgary were because he was insulated by in prime versions of Regher, Roman Hamrlick, Rhett Warrener, Andrew Ference, Adrian Aucoin, Corey Sarich etc. Now he's being asked to be a true #1 and he doesn't think the game well enough for that role. Just my opinion. Put him in San Jose with Vlasic, Braun and Burns..he gets back to the big hitting, goal scoring Dion.

This is why I wouldn't be opposed to having him in SJ. It's kind of like Hjalmarsson (not comparing them as players) in that if they're thrown into a #1 role without a good supporting cast, they're going to flounder. Insulate them as they would be in SJ or CHI, and they'll look phenomenal. Once again, they're stylistically very different d-men.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'd be opposed at his price tag.

 

[boylerroom]

For what it's worth EJ Hradek just tweeted that he thought SJ, under Larry Robinson would be a great fit for MDZ.

 

[wraith985]

If he wants anything like the 2.55 AAV he was making on his last contract, nope. But at 1x800K? 1x1? Hell, even at 2x1.25? Even in his current del-zasterous state he's probably still better than Matt Irwin, who I consider to be a dead-end stopgap at best.

It helps that MDZ has demonstrated his ceiling at the NHL level, and even though that was a few years ago and he might never hit it again, I still think that makes him worth a flier. Let Robinson take a run at fixing him up on a prove-it contract. If he improves himself like Demers did, fantastic. If he continues to be an unproductive pain in the rear, then so be it - we didn't give up anything but money for him. Sheppard 2.0, minus the 3rd rounder as a price and with a much higher upside attached.

 

[ChompChomp]

If he wants anything like the 2.55 AAV he was making on his last contract, nope. But at 1x800K? 1x1? Hell, even at 2x1.25? Even in his current del-zasterous state he's probably still better than Matt Irwin, who I consider to be a dead-end stopgap at best.

It helps that MDZ has demonstrated his ceiling at the NHL level, and even though that was a few years ago and he might never hit it again, I still think that makes him worth a flier. Let Robinson take a run at fixing him up on a prove-it contract. If he improves himself like Demers did, fantastic. If he continues to be an unproductive pain in the rear, then so be it - we didn't give up anything but money for him. Sheppard 2.0, minus the 3rd rounder as a price and with a much higher upside attached.

At this point, it's pretty clear that there is little interest in MDZ from the league, so his price is probably around $800k.

Just sign MDZ and Ryan Whitney (or Colaiacovo) to 1 yr, $500-800k deals (maybe even 2 way deals on both, if you are permitted to do that) and see if one or two stick. It's low risk to bring these guys in and see if Larry Robinson can do anything with them. Also gives Irwin competition, which might make him better. If you can get them (MDZ and Whitney) on 2 way deals, you can bury their contracts if you need/want to.

Edit: There's a lot of Dmen out there too (guys I mentioned above, Volchenkov, A. Benoit, Komisarek, etc.). At this point in UFA period, they're going to be bargains. Just sign the 2 that Larry Robinson wants to bring in (provided they want to play here) and let's go make a run of it. Maybe even better than MDZ/Whitney/Carlo, you bring in Volchenkov and Komi:

Vlasic-Demers
Volchenkov-Burns
Braun-Komisarek
Irwin, Mueller

Each pairing pairs a defensive dman with offensive dman. Braun has to move to left side, but that's a small price to pay for a lineup with 3 offensive dmen and 3 defensive dmen. Can also make good PK pairings from this top 6. Could at times, and as situations call for, roll with Vlasic-Komisarek for a shutdown pairing. Am I crazy to think this 1-6 could be better than the Sharks 1-6 last season for Dmen? (i.e., Burns > Boyle, Volchenkov > Stuart, Komi > Hannan/Irwin?).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You really want to bring in two guys that had to be bought out on defense? Both Komisarek and Volchenkov are today's version of Colin White. They need to be avoided.

 

[Sharksfan83]

You really want to bring in two guys that had to be bought out on defense? Both Komisarek and Volchenkov are today's version of Colin White. They need to be avoided.

If DW signed both Komisarek and Volchenkov, I really hope I'm online when it happens. It'd be hilarious watching the comments on here.

 

[ChompChomp]

Volchenkov just signed with Nashville, 1 yr, $1M. Would he really have been that horrible here at such price?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Volchenkov just signed with Nashville, 1 yr, $1M. Would he really have been that horrible here at such price?

Was Colin White?

 

[ChompChomp]

Was Colin White?

Yes, but, alas, I disagree with your contention that Volchenkov is Colin White 2.0. Maybe he will be some day, but not now. 1 yr, $1M is Hannan money. Would you rather have Hannan over Volchenkov right this very second?

 

[hohosaregood]

Ya know, if MDZ couldn't work in the defenseman factory known as Nashville, there's probably just straight up no hope for him.

 

[hockeyball]

Yes, but, alas, I disagree with your contention that Volchenkov is Colin White 2.0. Maybe he will be some day, but not now. 1 yr, $1M is Hannan money. Would you rather have Hannan over Volchenkov right this very second?

Hannan

Volcenkov is nearly identical to Colin White. Both used to be excellent defensively, both have declined steeply, both are slow, both lack hockey sense, and coincidentally both came from the Devils last heh.

I'd take Hannan 10 times out of 10 over Volchenkov for the same price. He fits in better with the team, knows his role, is a slightly better skater and has good hockey sense to make up for it. Hannan is basically an ideal 7th d-man on a contender, Volchenkov is worthless (see Colin White, Douglas Murray, Wallin, Semenov, etc).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes, but, alas, I disagree with your contention that Volchenkov is Colin White 2.0. Maybe he will be some day, but not now. 1 yr, $1M is Hannan money. Would you rather have Hannan over Volchenkov right this very second?

To me, if Lamoriello buys someone out, he's got good reason to do so. Volchenkov only had two more years at 4.25 million and it's not like New Jersey was really hurting for cap space.

To answer your question, yes I would rather have Hannan over Volchenkov. I know Hannan is okay with sitting in the press box and filling in competently when necessary here. I don't know that with Volchenkov, he could do that. And I think Volchenkov is actually worse than Hannan with the puck. Hannan is also more durable.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Volchenkov is no longer the "A-Train". Too many wars, too many blocked shots.