Should the Flyers Rebuild?

[kudymen]

The timing on this one is uncanny

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's the same thing that recently happened with a part of the Sixers' fanbase. At some point, you have to identify your core and go. Hextall decided Schenn wasn't part of it. There's no need to overcomplicate it.

 

[mja]

But, they just did that. Why would they need to do it again? You don't need every player on the team to be in their early 20's. So confused.

 

[bobbythebrain]

This thread

Rebuild is done. The amount of young talent mixed with old is right meow

Only way we go into a full on rebuild is if Provy, Patrick, Konecny and the rest of the dcore fall flat on their face

Flyers just pulled off a complete rebuild in 3 years where most teams take 7 or more

Freakin genuis

 

[Gsus]

This thread

Rebuild is done. The amount of young talent mixed with old is right meow

Only way we go into a full on rebuild is if Provy, Patrick, Konecny and the rest of the dcore fall flat on their face

Flyers just pulled off a complete rebuild in 3 years where most teams take 7 or more

Freakin genuis

I think part and the most important part of the rebuild process is to see how they fare on ice. But with these prospects the Flyers should be more than fine.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Yeah, despite my above comment, I would entertain the possibility of a Simmonds trade, but it would need to be a pretty big haul featuring a young and very promising NHL player who can step into the lineup right away at a position of need. The type of player I'd demand in return isn't the type that gets shopped often, though. Otherwise, I'm not trading him for a top prospect and a 1st.

We can make a Simmonds contract fit in our cap structure. We don't need to trade him just for the sake of maximizing his value.

I don't want to trade him just for that reason either. The idea I have been peddling is for Puljujarvi, who I think is absolutely ready to make his NHL debut and can slot right into our plans, for now and the future, seamlessly, eventually (soon-ish) offering us the offense that Wayne does, if not the intangibles (definitely not the intangibles). He gives us fantastic cap flexibility long-term compared to Simmer. I really like the kid so much and I would love for us to nab him, but I also think it would make for a good hockey trade.

My initial reaction to your post above is that you are underestimating the collective good sense of this board ... but then I started to think about it, and I'm not sure. I think I believe there are more sensible people on here than you do, but I could very well be wrong lol.

 

[Rebels57]

We have been building smart since Hextall took over 3 years ago. You dont need to blow up a quality core to change a loser into a winner. Think outside the box.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Nope

 

[Striiker]

Yep, trade everyone for picks.

Then trade all of our prospects for picks.

And then when we use the picks at the draft, trade those guys for even more picks.

Then trade the picks for picks.

 

[Johnk0728]

No. I mean they are doing it while staying competitive.

The D core is halfway on it's way and Konecny started the wave for Lindblom, Patrick and others to crush in to the lineup for forwards next year. The team is building and is actually getting stronger right away. That's because of good drafting and getting rid of bad assets.

Good organizations rebuild and stay competitive during the building. Flyers are doing exactly that. A team like Rangers maybe not so much, they are going to hit a wall at some point because they won't have players like Konecny or even Rubtsov in their system.

The Flyers have won one playoff series in 6 years and have missed the playoffs in 2 out of the last 3 years. Your definition of competitive is different than mine. The Flyers got lucky this year by moving up in the lottery and getting a prospective top 6 forward. So hopefully that accelerates the rebuild. Next season the Flyers could realistically have 4-5 rookies in the lineup on opening day add this to the trading of Schenn & it appears that Hextall has decided to let the rookies to start their NHL development. The rebuild is actually happening now.... next season may be a learning curve year. I do not expect the Flyers to make the playoffs this upcoming season....that's a lot to put on such a young team with question mark at goalie. I just want to the kids to show improvement and begin their development at the NHL level. Now the only negative that could happen is if G, Voracek or Simmonds decide that they want to go somewhere to win now. And one major injury next season could make it a real tough season but next year is a deep draft. It would be nice to get another top 5 pick in addition to the Blues pick. I truly believe that getting the #2 pick has made Hextall speed up the youth movement at the forward positions. I would not be surprised if we see Voracek moved at the deadline.

 

[Tripod]

We have been rebuilding. Hextall just has not stripped the team down to nothing to do it.

He wants to stay competitive AND rebuild at the same time. Trading Schenn is a rebuild move. But he also knows that moving Konecny to RW and adding Lindblom can offset the loss of Schenn.

With Giroux, Voracek and Couts all signed for 5 years or more, they will be the vets that play the "Hossa" like role on the future Flyers....good players that are leaned on, but don't carry the load by themselves.

This team has been built from the backend out. The goalie and D pipelines are in place, and this draft Hextall added 3 more 1st round talents to the forward group.

Simmonds has been talked about enough, we all love him. We also are realists and see that him becoming a UFA in 2 years sucks as it's too short for us to win now with him, and re-signing him adds lots of risk that a contending team doesn't need to take. Oshies deal confirms what Simmonds deal will likely look like. They likely hold on to him for another year, but if the prospects at forward continue to have good years, I expect him to be moved.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I would not be surprised if we see Voracek moved at the deadline.

It would be extraordinarily unusual for a contract of that length to move at the deadline.

 

[Johnk0728]

We have been rebuilding. Hextall just has not stripped the team down to nothing to do it.

He wants to stay competitive AND rebuild at the same time. Trading Schenn is a rebuild move. But he also knows that moving Konecny to RW and adding Lindblom can offset the loss of Schenn.

With Giroux, Voracek and Couts all signed for 5 years or more, they will be the vets that play the "Hossa" like role on the future Flyers....good players that are leaned on, but don't carry the load by themselves.

This team has been built from the backend out. The goalie and D pipelines are in place, and this draft Hextall added 3 more 1st round talents to the forward group.

Simmonds has been talked about enough, we all love him. We also are realists and see that him becoming a UFA in 2 years sucks as it's too short for us to win now with him, and re-signing him adds lots of risk that a contending team doesn't need to take. Oshies deal confirms what Simmonds deal will likely look like. They likely hold on to him for another year, but if the prospects at forward continue to have good years, I expect him to be moved.

Tripod, I completely agree.... I love Wayne Simmonds but he is the guy that has the best shot at being moved. His play and contract could end up getting you a haul at the trade deadline. If Schenn gets you two first rounders; Simmonds could get you a top prospect and a pick. Signing a 30 year old Wayne Simmonds in 2 years to a Oshie-like contract scares me.

 

[Johnk0728]

It would be extraordinarily unusual for a contract of that length to move at the deadline.

Yeah....you are probably right. But NHL GM's get dumb at deadline sometimes. I guess its wishful thinking.

 

[Tripod]

Tripod, I completely agree.... I love Wayne Simmonds but he is the guy that has the best shot at being moved. His play and contract could end up getting you a haul at the trade deadline. If Schenn gets you two first rounders; Simmonds could get you a top prospect and a pick. Signing a 30 year old Wayne Simmonds in 2 years to a Oshie-like contract scares me.

For months, likely a year, when talking about Simmonds, I have said that I don't want to sign him to a 6 million dollar deal for his 31-35 year old seasons. Now with Oshie re-signing, that could be Simmonds 31-38 year old seasons. I 100% don't want that.

If Simmonds had 4 years on his deal right now, I don't think about moving him. But with 2, it ends right when things should be looking good for us. And as much as it hurts trading him, we all know he has great value to a contender. And that contender would be willing to lose the deal long term, to add Simmonds short term for a Cup.

He is really one of those guys that would create a bidding war on due to how low his contract is.

 

[WIP CALLER]

i would rather have simmonds for his age 31-35 years making 6.5 million than voraceks age 31-35 years making 8 million. voracek wont get as much of a haul due to his contract but from a competitive perspective, I think Simmonds will provide much more for the team on those years even if his scoring goes down. we have so many young assets and draft picks already that I don't think losing the little bit extra we would get from trading Simmonds is worth what we stand to lose by getting rid of him. one of the 2 likely have to go before Simmonds contract is up though I just hope it's jake as I think Simmonds leadership would be invaluable to keep around for the young guys and that he provides much more than just producing points. when jake isn't producing he is very frustrating to watch as he doesn't really provide much else.

 

[Rebels57]

i would rather have simmonds for his age 31-35 years making 6.5 million than voraceks age 31-35 years making 8 million. voracek wont get as much of a haul due to his contract but from a competitive perspective, I think Simmonds will provide much more for the team on those years even if his scoring goes down. we have so many young assets and draft picks already that I don't think losing the little bit extra we would get from trading Simmonds is worth what we stand to lose by getting rid of him. one of the 2 likely have to go before Simmonds contract is up though I just hope it's jake as I think Simmonds leadership would be invaluable to keep around for the young guys and that he provides much more than just producing points. when jake isn't producing he is very frustrating to watch as he doesn't really provide much else.

I will reserve judgement on Simmer vs Jake until after this upcoming season.

 

[FadeToBlack]

I don't see the Flyers seriously contending (winning 2 playoff series) for at least two more years. I think they're a fringe team again this year, then next year, they should win a round. Jettison some contracts, sign a marquee FA, and chase a cup the year after.

I'm in favor of missing the PO's next year so we can cash in on the remaining Karma for losing the Kane Sweepstakes, and hopefully get another top 3 pick. That would be sick, especially in a draft as quality as '18 projects to be.

 

[Jtown]

when we talk rebuild we really mean 3 players. giroux Voracek and Simmonds.

So lets talk about the future lets set a line up without those 3 guys

LInblom Patrick neck
Ratcliffe (blank) (blank)
Rubstov Coots Frost
Goulbourne? Bardreau Leier

Provy sanheim
ghost myers
hagg morin

Stolarz
Felix
hart

we need to fill in that future top 6 , and i believe a trade of giorux simmer and voracek will be able to fill those holes. It makes logical sense to trade those 3.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's reasonable to expect one of Frost and Rubtsov to stick in the middle.

Before you get to Bardreau, Leier, or Goulbourne, I would include NAK, Allison, Laczynski, and Bunnaman in whatever order you prefer. Then there's Laberge, which is a bit of a difficult decision.

 

[Jtown]

It's reasonable to expect one of Frost and Rubtsov to stick in the middle.

Before you get to Bardreau, Leier, or Goulbourne, I would include NAK, Allison, Laczynski, and Bunnaman in whatever order you prefer. Then there's Laberge, which is a bit of a difficult decision.

i do believe frost and rubstov will play center. but i don't believe any are top 6 centers and coots won't be moved off that 3rd center spot.

 

[SuchySays]

Yep, trade everyone for picks.

Then trade all of our prospects for picks.

And then when we use the picks at the draft, trade those guys for even more picks.

Then trade the picks for picks.

Bingo.. this so called rebuild of trading Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds makes zero sense.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Yeah, despite my above comment, I would entertain the possibility of a Simmonds trade, but it would need to be a pretty big haul featuring a young and very promising NHL player who can step into the lineup right away at a position of need. The type of player I'd demand in return isn't the type that gets shopped often, though. Otherwise, I'm not trading him for a top prospect and a 1st.

We can make a Simmonds contract fit in our cap structure. We don't need to trade him just for the sake of maximizing his value.

Simmonds is the wildcard, and we wont know what the deal is until 2018. If he can be retained at a reasonable number (under $6M) for a reasonable term (4 years), then I think we resign him. More term or more money required, then he will need to be traded. Cant have him into his 35+ y/o seasons, nor can we go with too much money, especially with the G & Jake contracts in place.

 

[Stizzle]

when we talk rebuild we really mean 3 players. giroux Voracek and Simmonds.

So lets talk about the future lets set a line up without those 3 guys

LInblom Patrick neck
Ratcliffe (blank) (blank)
Rubstov Coots Frost
Goulbourne? Bardreau Leier

Provy sanheim
ghost myers
hagg morin

Stolarz
Felix
hart

we need to fill in that future top 6 , and i believe a trade of giorux simmer and voracek will be able to fill those holes. It makes logical sense to trade those 3.

That's the best lineup you could come up with? You're missing 3 forwards I have in my top 10 prospect list. Plus we have 2 1sts next year, and a whole bunch of other guys clearly better than the 4th line you posted.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

i do believe frost and rubstov will play center. but i don't believe any are top 6 centers and coots won't be moved off that 3rd center spot.

There's no point in arguing with you about Couturier so I will just say he's already playing almost as much at ES as Giroux (20s less/game). The labels are antiquated. If you think either sticks in the middle, that's where they should be unless it moves them off of the 4th line.