Should I talk to another kid's parents?

[Sky04]

I'm not going to do that. Without going into details Owen's parents "have a lot going on", they live close to us so driving him is a minor inconvenience at most, and while in a game I don't really want him on my son's team in terms of chance of winning it's not my place to try and prevent him from playing (and winning or losing at this level is so unimportant).

It's not about winning or losing if he's making the environment negative around him that's a problem, and it'll just get worse if unaddressed, for him or the team.

I've seen teams go full mutiny against selfish players, they'll stop passing to him, stop celebrating with him pretty much ostracize the guy until he gets the message or quits, can also lead to bully of the kid as well.

Not sure why you didn't think to talk to the coach before thinking about approaching the parents who are never there.

 

[oldunclehue]

I went back over this thread, and with respect I can't agree with this statement.

You should be careful about talking to someone else's kid, but to say "never speak to them" it way too broad. First of all there's just general pleasantries. For example I've known some of the kids my kids have played with for years and years now. I know them, their parents, and their kids know me. So I'll absolutely say "Hi Liam, how was school today" or whatever. It's just small talk, it would seem more awkward to not say anything. And in Owen's case I give him rides to hockey from time to time - of course I'm going to talk to him when he's in my car.

On the other extreme I will absolutely say something if I see a kid doing something unsafe or completely inappropriate. Even if I have no idea who the kid is. This is the coach in me coming out. I don't care if the parents get upset at me afterwards in this scenario.

But yes - if I'm not the coach, I won't say anything to a kid about their on-ice performance beyond "hey great game out there". I'm not going to give finer tips (or even basic tips) on skating, positioning, tactics or whatever. I don't know what the actual coaches are saying. I don't want to contradict what they're being taught. I also don't want the parents to get upset if I'm telling their kid something they disagree with. (and note my question was should I talk to the parents, not the kid).


The one thing I would say though is never, ever touch someone else's kid without the parents consent.

That's what I meant, never approach a kid on your own to tell them about their play. There is a reason why most coaching information suggests always having two adults to deal with kids just in case. I didn't mean never talk to a kid in general, but never approach a kid for the means of talking to him about feedback if you aren't the coach. It makes no sense.

 

[yianik]

Let's say he's a tween.

And although I do some coaching, I am not and never have been this kid's coach.

If I was going to say something it would be something like "hey, I'm not saying you need to do anything, but I wanted to tell you what I saw last weekend..."

But as I said my gut mostly says "no, stay out of it", and none of you are exactly trying to change my mind.

Answered your own question. Go with your gut and stay out.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

As a parent, I would stay out of it. Especially if the parents themselves have personal issues. Might even ‘gang’ up on you with others and paint you as a bad guy.


I do remember something similar happened to one of the guys in my high school team (part of my graduating class). Big time talent but was a complete hothead. Coaches ended up dropping him sophomore year due to many incidents with refs and opposing fans. He never played with us again.

 

[Acallabeth]

I would advise going straight to hand to hand combat.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I would advise going straight to hand to hand combat.

Mortal Kombat, specifically

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I’m a coach of a U15 Recreational team and definitely had an “Owen” on my team this year. To a T. Very talented young man, but terribly undisciplined and very little concept of how to play as part of a team.

As a parent - I wouldn’t advise talking to the family directly. More often than not, it becomes a pissing match of “well your kid does this / oh yeah, your kid does that”. If you have strong concerns, talk to the team manager and/or the coach. Ultimately it’s their responsibility to manage the players on the team, so that’s who it should be directed to. Same goes for managing the family.

 

[ZDH]

I'd stop on the freeway on the way to practice, mutter something about learning a life lesson today, and make him take the ankle express to practice.

Builds character.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Pretty much every team my kids played on have had somebody on "the Owen spectrum". It's pervasive in youth hockey. If you can see it, the coach can too, and it's his job to either deal with it or not. If the kid is talented enough, he probably took him on the team understanding already that he'd have to accept the bad with the good, but he wanted that talent anyway. Nothing you can do about that now.

I wouldn't speak to anybody about it, certainly not the parents, but also not even the coach or manager. They already know. It's not your job.

I would say of the dozens of Owens I've seen over the years, there's actually a fairly decent rate of them eventually growing out of it when they get to 15/16 or higher levels of competition. Maybe half of them gradually adapt under some combination of hitting a wall with a certain paid coach/opportunity and peer pressure. Many also do not change, and are still that same player in rec when they're in their 20s. Either way, it wasn't ever because some other kid's parents talked to their parents about them.

 

[cowboy82nd]

If "Owen" is that much of a hog and taking stupid penalties, the coach should decrease his minutes and talk to him about it. JMO

 

[Yukon Joe]

Owen and my kid had a game yesterday. Owen's mom was there. On the one hand she mentioned that she knew that Owen took a lot of penalties, but on the other hand - while she didn't exactly laugh it off, she didn't seem to think it was a big problem either.

Yeah, I'll keep my mouth shut. Thanks all for the advice.

 

[jgimp]

Nope, just mind your business. Me and my wife are on the trailing end of our kids hockey careers, son ended 3 years back and daughter has 1 year left and I found that as the years progressed my perspectives changed from trying to win, push ing the kids to play hard and to do their best to just having fun and enjoying the moments. They are building friendships, learning adversity and what hard work is, and, unfortunately that there are some in life that are in it for themselves. That’s life!
I hardly reminisce about selfish plays or bad penalties that cost us a game or tournament, but I always remember the fun my kids had and the smiles I saw from the stands.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Owen will learn his lesson the hard way

 

[Ice9]

Owen will learn his lesson the hard way

Delivered by his teammates most likely. The best way.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Owen and my kid had a game yesterday. Owen's mom was there. On the one hand she mentioned that she knew that Owen took a lot of penalties, but on the other hand - while she didn't exactly laugh it off, she didn't seem to think it was a big problem either.

Yeah, I'll keep my mouth shut. Thanks all for the advice.

How was he with his mom watching?

Our team was the most penalized in the league and one of our players was the most penalized individual in the league. He didn't cost us any games however and was one of our best players. I was told the kids parents were told by some people in the organization that it could defer a coach from wanting him on his team in the future. Pretty sure the parents have spoken with the player as I have seen the mom's reaction when he does stuff. She certainly doesn't approve and is not blaming the refs or claiming the opponent, "Just can't stay on his feet." (have heard that is often a remark some make when disagreeing with a call).

 

[patnyrnyg]

OK, so the answer is probably "no", but let me lay this scenario out.

We know this kid, lets call him Owen (not his real name). My son has played spring hockey with Owen for about 3 years, played on the same winter hockey team 1 year. We know his parents well enough - we're not friends and don't hang out, but we have each other's numbers. Owen's parents have a lot going on so I've given Owen a ton of rides to hockey over the last couple years.

Owen is a very talented and very selfish player.

Anyways, there was an out of town tournament recently. Neither of Owen's parents could come on the trip so an uncle went with him.

In the tournament of course Owen hardly ever passed - always tries to dangle and toe-drag past the entire other team which never works. But that's just par for the course with this kid. He still manages to get his goals though.

But he also took a ton of selfish penalties - retaliation penalties mostly. The cherry on top was at the end of the tournament, our team was down 1 goal, 2 minutes left, the kid takes another selfish penalty. After being called Owen slaps the puck down the ice. Refs promptly give him an unsportmanlike as well, putting our team down 5 on 3, ending any chance of a comeback. My son confirmed the refs had given the coaches numerous warnings about Owen's behaviour during the game. In the handshake line Owen is still giving it to the Refs. Coaches tell the team afterwards (without naming names) that they never want to hear players disrespecting the refs, but Owen just laughs it off. The rest of the team is very upset at Owen.

Should I say something to the parents?

My gut mostly says "no", it isn't my business. The parents didn't see this tournament, but it was hardly out of character. Owen is definitely their "golden child".

But I also know the team he wants to make next winter, and they won't put up with that kind of nonsense. In fact it might be too late as he has a reputation already. And because he is skilled I'd hate to see that go to waste because of lousy discipline.

Thoughts?

Just out of curiosity, what have the coaches done? Was this the last game of the tourney? If not, did he see less ice time during the next game? Did he see less ice time this weekend?

 

[Yukon Joe]

How was he with his mom watching?

Our team was the most penalized in the league and one of our players was the most penalized individual in the league. He didn't cost us any games however and was one of our best players. I was told the kids parents were told by some people in the organization that it could defer a coach from wanting him on his team in the future. Pretty sure the parents have spoken with the player as I have seen the mom's reaction when he does stuff. She certainly doesn't approve and is not blaming the refs or claiming the opponent, "Just can't stay on his feet." (have heard that is often a remark some make when disagreeing with a call).

Well if you're "one of the most penalized players in the league" you might have a problem, but no - I specified what irritated both me and his fellow players were the undisciplined penalties - the retaliations or the unsportmanlike calls.

I totally understand the distinction between good and bad penalties to take.

 

[patnyrnyg]

What I meant is did he take undisciplined penalties or mouth off to the refs while his mom is watching?

As for the player I was referring, I do not know him or the parents well enough to know if there are any general behavior issues, i.e. school/home. Seemed to get along well with all of his teammates, so no issues there.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Also consider that there's a TON of information missing about why the kid behaves this way. It's entirely possible that this is not at all a hockey problem, but a behavioral issue or otherwise a personal issue for him. Tweens go through some crazy adjustments and the great majority of them are obnoxious little gremlins for at least part of the transition.

It is by far and away the most difficult age group to deal with, and most coaches/parents/people are just not very good at diagnosing and reacting to them.

 

[SkeeterPumpkinEater]

Tell Owen to find his own f***in rides from now on.

 

[ChuckLefley]

As a teacher, coach and parent I can say that the people saying that you should say something are exactly what is wrong with youth sports and education. Unless a kid is putting your child in danger, it is only the business of the coaches, refs and teammates…not the parents.

 

[Mike C]

I would advise going straight to hand to hand combat.

I like it. Just whack the kid up top

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

As a teacher, coach and parent I can say that the people saying that you should say something are exactly what is wrong with youth sports and education. Unless a kid is putting your child in danger, it is only the business of the coaches, refs and teammates…not the parents.

I had an encounter with the mother of a kid on my daughter’s 3-3 summer team.

Her son is a good player and this is the second year I’ve watched him as my daughter played on this team last summer.

He is a puck hog though, and for his sake someone needs to tell him to share the puck.

During the conversation with his mom, it became evident through casual questions she thought her son was the best player on the team and didn’t need to share the puck.

Basically the just of it was he has a better chance of scoring a goal than anyone he’d pass to.

We had a nice talk, but this encounter completely reinforced my earlier advice that you keep your thoughts to yourself about other kids.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I had an encounter with the mother of a kid on my daughter’s 3-3 summer team.

Her son is a good player and this is the second year I’ve watched him as my daughter played on this team last summer.

He is a puck hog though, and for his sake someone needs to tell him to share the puck.

During the conversation with his mom, it became evident through casual questions she thought her son was the best player on the team and didn’t need to share the puck.

Basically the just of it was he has a better chance of scoring a goal than anyone he’d pass to.

We had a nice talk, but this encounter completely reinforced my earlier advice that you keep your thoughts to yourself about other kids.

My nephew is almost 9, a good player. My brother's stance is he doesn't want him on a team where he is the best player on the team or the worst. If he is the worst, everyone will hate him. If he is the best, he will try to do too much himself and develop very bad habits.

 

[Yukon Joe]

My nephew is almost 9, a good player. My brother's stance is he doesn't want him on a team where he is the best player on the team or the worst. If he is the worst, everyone will hate him. If he is the best, he will try to do too much himself and develop very bad habits.

So I mean in general your brother is correct - you want your kid to be on a team with similarly-skilled players. You don't want to be too much of an outlier either good or bad.

But 9 is pretty darn young. My biggest concern at that age is more "does my kid know some of the other kids on his team" to make sure he's having fun.

But beyond that - if your kid is the best on his team it can also give him the self-confidence to grow his game. Once you believe that you're good you can play like you're actually good. And yes there is the risk of becoming a puck hog is there, but I've seen pretty mediocre players be puck hogs too - that's for the coach to deal with.

I've played rec hockey for several years now after doing an adult learn-to-play. I really enjoy it - but I've also never scored even a single goal in that time. I was OK with it, I just focused on playing good defence. But the other night I finally got that first goal - and holy shit the confidence that gave me was amazing. I promptly proceeded to get a second goal, and got more quality shots on net than I've ever had beside that.

As for being the worst on the team? Kids are actually pretty good. Again from coaching kids that age they can more rally around the weaker players and try to encourage him. My youngest was 8 his last year of hockey, and was the worst on his team. The kids did really try to encourage and help him. It was only near the end of the year, when my kid had really visibly given up even trying, that the other kids started to get frustrated and upset with him.

So no - I don't really want my kid to be the worst one on the team. But depending on the kid and the circumstances, they can sometimes rise to the challenge and really improve. Or they can give up too.