News Article: Shero fired, Fitz interim GM part II

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awegrzyn

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Jun 17, 2014
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One thing that is missed in all this is MONEY. Many of you may not know, but the Devils were losing money for years before the new ownership. Since then they did not sell out more tickets. Maybe even less. As a GM you are directly responsible for that as well. There is only so much money you can burn without some kind of success.

I have been going to games for $10 for years now.
 

Poppy Whoa Sonnet

J'Accuse!
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Jan 24, 2007
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Shero not being happy about the FO structure doesn't necessarily mean the Analytics Department went behind his back and said he had to go. That's what Wysh is implying with that tweet and he knows it.
 

Camille the Eel

Registered User
If this is true . . . What’s wrong with a collaborative process in running a club? It’s done the current Red Sox and Yankees just fine in baseball. The days of the all powerful GM and owners who mind their business are gone in Hockey and elsewhere. The entire modern trend is to diffuse authority. Ray was no genius either. I think the change is for the better in Newark.
 

AfroThunder396

[citation needed]
Jan 8, 2006
39,132
23,195
Miami, FL
One thing that is missed in all this is MONEY. Many of you may not know, but the Devils were losing money for years before the new ownership. Since then they did not sell out more tickets. Maybe even less. As a GM you are directly responsible for that as well. There is only so much money you can burn without some kind of success.

I have been going to games for $10 for years now.
The Devils own the arena. Every event that happens at the Prudential Center, the Devils get a cut of it.

Harris and Blitzer bought the team for $320 million, today it's worth $550 million That's 15th in the league and the most the franchise has ever been worth.

We are doing great financially. This was a hockey decision.
 

OmNomNom

Taco is Love, Taco is Life
Mar 3, 2011
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In the Church of Salmela


43-A1123-F-DFF5-4861-912-C-9-E0145-BB421-F.gif

love it lol

but wysh is a hack and friedman is bob's heir apparent
 

guitarguyvic

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Mar 31, 2010
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So what should the plan have been?
- Articulate what kind of team/roster you want to construct. Do you want a big, forechecking team like the Blues, or a skilled puck possession team like the Capitals? Personally I think the proper make up for a Devils team in this era is to be a relentless puck retrieving team - fuse the tradition of responsible structured defensive play with aggressive puck possession. Something like a cross between St. Louis & Vegas.
- Acknowledge that the cupboard has to be restocked at all positions, and as such articulate which pieces of the roster are of the highest priority to address right away. The logical approach here is to aggressively seek replenishment of the D-core and Centers since they take the longest to develop and are the most difficult to acquire. With that being set as the priority, the majority of drafting and transactions should be toward that aim; and any decisions made that don't move you towards that priority should be well analyzed to ensure they don't stall or negatively impact the goal of assembling a competent defensive core/center depth.
- Supplement wingers on the roster in the short term by acquiring inexpensive stop gap solutions, if need be. Do not hand out long term contracts to aging players, and avoid giving up assets to acquire players who may stall the rebuild (AKA do not match the rebuild timeline). This is a tricky one: if a Larsson for Hall deal becomes available and you decide it can't be passed up - then you have to start changing the plan to fit Hall's timeline rather than the original rebuild timeline. Which is fine, but risky. (This is not what Ray did and we see how that turned out).
- Identify players who are likely to be currently overvalued by other GM's (someone like a Severson or Wood) and what they can be exchanged for - this could be an opportunity to acquire higher risk/reward prospects.
- Make it a priority to sign a competent goalie and roll with a 1A/1B tandem through the rebuild.
- Retain the positives of Lou's tenure - culture of structure, leadership, accountability, and putting the team before the individual. Model that standard in every action, decision, strategy, etc.
- Hire the right coaching staff - they must model the standard set above, instill structure, and demand a winning effort every night. They must institute a system that is in line with the type of team that is being built. And most important - they must be held accountable if they fail. This is a business and results matter. No hanging onto people just because you've worked with them for x number of years, or you have a personal relationship, etc.
- Maintain and model the passionate underdog identity of a Jersey team, complete with genuine dislike of local rivals like the Rangers and Flyers. Expect this out of all your players and staff as well.
- Communicate the timeline. Something like "our goal is to have a team that plays to win every night, starting immediately; a core of defensemen and centers within 3 years; and competing for a playoff spot within 5. The on-ice product will be something our fans and the entire organization can be proud of."
 
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JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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I believe Brodeur has ownership's ear.

Devils hire Brodeur as Executive VP of Business Development

Shero gets fired

Broduer is named Advisor to hockey operations.

Now how do go from putting Devils billboards up on Paterson Plank Rd to Advisory Role of Hockey Ops when the former GM is fired? That promotion is a story in and of itself
 
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ChicksDigTheTrap

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Sep 16, 2018
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Tough deal .. he took over a complete dumpster fire and did improve the talent base quite a bit. The problem is that the team was still losing with no apparent end in sight. The coaching was a mess, and he was late to act there. I think he should have been more proactive after the playoff appearance .. needed to add a legit goalie and didn't. Never did add a legit goalie to the mix. Whoever takes over next has a lot more to work with than Shero had when he got the job.
Agree. Like all GMs he had his good and bad. The positive IMO is that things like not changing coaches and getting another goalie do not negatively affect the long term. You could argue it helps in the sense that we get a higher pick.

Your "Tough deal" comment reminded me of a line from Sam Hinkie's resignation letter to the Sixers.

It’s clear now that I won’t see the harvest of the seeds we planted. That’s OK. Life’s like that.
 

MNDevilsfan

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Jan 9, 2015
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St. Paul, MN
I like Friedman but think Wysh is pretty much right on with that bit. Very much has a 'I'm not saying Tyler Dellow & Matt Kane got Ray Shero fired, BUT...' vibe to it. Kind of lame to imply that then turn around and act like you're just trying to describe broad strokes of the ownership/hockey ops/analytics group relationship. If it was me I'd probably be pretty unhappy to read that about myself...unless I really was trying to get him fired lol
 

None Shall Pass

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Jul 7, 2007
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If this is true . . . What’s wrong with a collaborative process in running a club? It’s done the current Red Sox and Yankees just fine in baseball. The days of the all powerful GM and owners who mind their business are gone in Hockey and elsewhere. The entire modern trend is to diffuse authority. Ray was no genius either. I think the change is for the better in Newark.

I feel this way as well. Honestly, reading the article made me feel a lot better about the situation.

Except the talk of trading Coleman and Palms, again. :(
 
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jkrdevil

UnRegistered User
Apr 24, 2006
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Miami
I believe Brodeur has ownership's ear.

Devils hire Brodeur as Executive VP of Business Development

Shero gets fired

Broduer is named Advisor to hockey operations.

Now how do go from putting Devils billboards up on Paterson Plank Rd to Advisory Role of Hockey Ops when the former GM is fired? That promotion is a story in and of itself

No. Marty was going to come into hockey opps on any transition period because he is in the organization and has hockey opps experience. I’m sure ownership has asked his thoughts on things from time to time, but my guess they approached him to take this role. This was an obvious move from a staffing an interim situation.
 

awegrzyn

Registered User
Jun 17, 2014
374
442
The Devils own the arena. Every event that happens at the Prudential Center, the Devils get a cut of it.

Harris and Blitzer bought the team for $320 million, today it's worth $550 million That's 15th in the league and the most the franchise has ever been worth.

We are doing great financially. This was a hockey decision.


You're funny. They overpaid for the arena. Bought things at the top almost. $550 million price is at the pinnacle of the biggest bubble in history of assets. Last I checked they did not make money, but you know better.
 

jkrdevil

UnRegistered User
Apr 24, 2006
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Miami
This tweet from Gabe Desjardins a few years ago stands out. This was soon after Sunny left the organization and the “whose dads are famous” clearly refers to Ray. It seems from the recent reporting (and despite public comments to the contrary), he wasn’t that receptive to the analytics department. Probably why the job posting was reporting directly to ownership.

 

njdevil26

I hate avocados
Dec 13, 2006
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Not a fan of this whole thing.

What GM is going to want to take a job where it's a group effort and every decision has to go through a very involved ownership group, a team of execs, and an analytics department.

What coach is going to want to take that job with all of that over them?

I think the Dubas/Keefe dynamic is the NHL of the future... and if anyone here was hoping to have Lavi/Gallant coach this team with a good experienced hockey GM in the front office, it's not going to happen.
 

Triumph

Registered User
Oct 2, 2007
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This tweet from Gabe Desjardins a few years ago stands out. This was soon after Sunny left the organization and the “whose dads are famous” clearly refers to Ray. It seems from the recent reporting (and despite public comments to the contrary), he wasn’t that receptive to the analytics department. Probably why the job posting was reporting directly to ownership.



This is a longtime bugbear of Desjardins' and should not be viewed as a direct shot at Shero.
 

guitarguyvic

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
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There is a lot of intrigue here but it makes for a lot of anxiety for us fans. I have a feeling that this is going to turn out to be incredibly positive for the franchise, or a complete trainwreck that makes us the laughing stock of the league.
 

Oneiro

Registered User
Mar 28, 2013
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One thing that kind of irks me about the fan and media reaction to all this is thinking that selling high on a few veteran players is the start of a teardown.

No. You have Nico, Hughes, Bratt and Smith and a ton of cheap 4th line depth. The latter two are less proven I guess but anything you do from that foundation is not tearing down anything.
 
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MNDevilsfan

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Jan 9, 2015
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One thing that kind of irks me about the fan and media reaction to all this is thinking that selling high on a few veteran players is the start of a teardown.

No. You have Nico, Hughes, Bratt and Smith and a ton of cheap 4th line depth. The latter two are less proven I guess but anything you do from that foundation is not tearing down anything.

For sure. I mean I think Coleman and Palmieri are great, but if the plan is to build around Hischier/Hughes, you absolutely should see what you can get for them and be willing to consider it for the right offer.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
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I mean given who the owners are and who they hired, not surprising at all that the analytics group has a lot of influence.

I am a bit surprised Ray wouldn't have worked well with them, as I've always had the impression he was pretty open minded.

For my part I think it'd be really fascinating to watch if they just went all in on sports/data science and gave the GM job to someone with that kind of background.

Thing is there always seemed to be a bit of a disconnect between them constantly bringing in analytics guys and Hynes coaching against the analytics. Especially with all of them seemingly leaving within a year or two. It seemed to me either a disconnect between Hynes/Shero or what's more likely now, a disconnect between Shero and ownership. Heck they started bringing in analytics guys under Lou who had none of it either (remember Sunny Mehta?)
 
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JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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For sure. I mean I think Coleman and Palmieri are great, but if the plan is to build around Hischier/Hughes, you absolutely should see what you can get for them and be willing to consider it for the right offer.
Hockey rational aside...what are you saying to the fans if you trade a Palmieri or Coleman? I mean you're basic saying hey check back in a few years it might be better then.

Edit:. And being completely honest I am quite fearful of "building around" two former #1 overalls who have 45 points in 79 games between them.
 
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NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
67,441
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If this is true . . . What’s wrong with a collaborative process in running a club? It’s done the current Red Sox and Yankees just fine in baseball. The days of the all powerful GM and owners who mind their business are gone in Hockey and elsewhere. The entire modern trend is to diffuse authority. Ray was no genius either. I think the change is for the better in Newark.

Personally I don't think analytics are as refined or accurate in hockey as they are in baseball. Using them as a supplement is fine. Going all-in on them is very risky.

Plus I've never been a fan of this new age approach of marginalizing managers/coaching but you still need a strong voice at the top regardless. The Yankees for all the talk of analytics and collaboration still have one voice at the top in Cashman. The Red Sox have had one voice at the top whether it's Theo or Dombrowski.
 

MNDevilsfan

Registered User
Jan 9, 2015
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St. Paul, MN
Hockey rational aside...what are you saying to the fans if you trade a Palmieri or Coleman? I mean you're basic saying hey check back in a few years it might be better then.

Edit:. And being completely honest I am quite fearful of "building around" two former #1 overalls who have 45 points in 79 games between them.

Oh I agree, not saying I think it's the direction to go in, but if it's what they decide to do taking them off the table probably doesn't make much sense.

Anyway, I'd be shocked if they traded either of those guys this season. Maybe next if they don't think they can resign them or something.
 
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