Post-Game Talk: Shero - Bylsma (Non-)Apocalyptic End of Season Press Conference | +/- Thread

[Speaking Moistly]

This is directed at no one particular, but the seemingly decently-sized group of people who think Letang can be replaced with 7MM and a random PMD:

Kris Letang has elite offensive skills. He will not be signed anywhere on this planet for under $7MM. If you think he will be, or you wouldn't sign him for less, you're wrong. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's not the correct one. I understand disliking Letang's boneheaded plays, but you have a serious disconnect between the reality of what the most-coveted player type is worth in today's NHL and what you'd pay him.

I get what makes Letang valuable, but he has serious deficiencies that probably won't get handled. Sacrificing some of Letang's perks and bringing in two reliable defensemen that don't suffer from being that stupid is a viable option. It's not just what he's worth in general, it's also what he's worth to this team.

I'd like to keep him, but he's not someone that there is no alternative for.

 

[billybudd]

what has letang done to distinguish himself from someone like mike green?

The Mike Green who signed a 4 year $5.2 million contract in 08? Nothing. However, that contract, at the time, was very similar to $7 million per now for Letang when looked at as a percentage of the cap maximum.

 

[Ogrezilla]

what has letang done to distinguish himself from someone like mike green?

He's more physical and he's faster. Letang is a million dollars better than Mike Green.

 

[IcedCapp]

Do the Bruins or Blackhawks have a guy like Letang?? No, which tells me we don't need one either. I love letang but if it's going to end up hurting us signing other guys in the long run I wouldn't care if we had to let him go. You will never replace him but you can get someone with a similar style but maybe isn't as offensive minded.

If you don't think the Blackhawks have a dman like Letang, there's probably a disconnect there for you, maybe watch some more Blackhawks games.

As for the Bruins, no, but they also have a rarity in Chara that the Penguins will never be able to find.

I get what makes Letang valuable, but he has serious deficiencies that probably won't get handled. Sacrificing some of Letang's perks and bringing in two reliable defensemen that don't suffer from being that stupid is a viable option. It's not just what he's worth in general, it's also what he's worth to this team.

I'd like to keep him, but he's not someone that there is no alternative for.

See, the problem is you think what Letang brings is "perks." You're wrong. They aren't perks. They are rare offensive abilities that every NHL team covets and if the Penguins were to trade him they would immediately be desperate for those same qualities.

Getting a chocolate on a pillow is a perk. Having 4th-line scoring is a perk.

Kris Letang is a rare, coveted defenseman.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Have people forgotten what this team looks like when Letang isn't playing?

 

[Ogrezilla]

In a vacuum, Letang is worth that kind of money in this market. To our team? I don't know...

Our team needs it's defense to get faster and better at controlling the puck and supporting the offense. Getting rid of Letang is not the way to do that.

We all need to watch Chicago in these playoffs. That's what our system is designed to look like, for the most part. Guys like Letang, Martin and Despres fit that perfectly. Guys like Engelland and Murray, not so much.

 

[Vikke]

He's more physical and he's faster. Letang is a million dollars better than Mike Green.

Is Letang of today a lot better, or even better at all, than Mike Green was when he signed that deal?

 

[IcedCapp]

In a vacuum, Letang is worth that kind of money in this market. To our team? I don't know...

I don't understand this. To our team he's gotta be worth more. I love how deep our defensive prospect pool is, but it's a prospect pool. If you remove Letang from the team, who is carrying the puck? Where are those 30 minutes going? I love Paul Martin, and while I think he's light years better in a lot of ways, he doesn't have Letang's overall offensive ability.

 

[Shady Machine]

Have people forgotten what this team looks like when Letang isn't playing?

Yes they have.

 

[IcedCapp]

Is Letang of today a lot better, or even better at all, than Mike Green was when he signed that deal?

how would you like us to qualify/quantify this? Because games played and point production wise, Mike Green isn't in Letang's neighborhood.

 

[Til the End of Time]

The Mike Green who signed a 4 year $5.2 million contract in 08? Nothing. However, that contract, at the time, was very similar to $7 million per now for Letang when looked at as a percentage of the cap maximum.

so, the contracts are comparable, given when they were signed. which supports my idea, because just as i wouldnt want mike green of '08 leading the blueline and taking up a large percentage of the cap, i dont want current letang leading this blueline and taking up the same percentage of the cap.

 

[Til the End of Time]

Did you bother doing any research?

Here, let me show you, the PAST THREE SEASONS:

Kris Letang, Games played = 168, Points = 130.

Mike Green, Games Played = 116, Points = 57


Oh, sorry, absolutely nothing.

so he put up more points than an injured mike green. convenient that you ignored the years where mike green was a norris contender himself.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Is Letang of today a lot better, or even better at all, than Mike Green was when he signed that deal?

Mike Green signed a 3 year, 6 million a year deal after putting up 7 points in 32 games. The year before that, he had 24 points in 49 games.

Yes, Kris Letang is much much much better than Mike Green was when he signed that contract.

 

[IcedCapp]

so he put up more points than an injured mike green. convenient that you ignored the years where mike green was a norris contender himself.

So 4 years ago is relevant to today how? Are we now paying players for what they did 4 years ago? That's a great idea. Almost as great as your opinion on Letang. I'm getting a very clear picture now. What are your thoughts on steam as a power source?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

See, the problem is you think what Letang brings is "perks." You're wrong. They aren't perks. They are rare offensive abilities that every NHL team covets and if the Penguins were to trade him they would immediately be desperate for those same qualities.

Getting a chocolate on a pillow is a perk. Having 4th-line scoring is a perk.

Kris Letang is a rare, coveted defenseman.

I should have said luxuries or benefits, my bad. I stand by it, though. He's valuable but not irreplaceable or the only way to do it.

Are those, "rare offensive abilities," worth more to this team than a stable and reliable defense? I'm not sure they are, and not in a way that could potentially weaken the actual offense (weaken the offense in a financial sense). I've already said that I'd like to keep him, this is just why I don't think he must be kept no matter what.


I've always hated the idea of a chocolate on a pillow, it's also always a disgusting mint chocolate in my experience.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Our team needs it's defense to get faster and better at controlling the puck and supporting the offense. Getting rid of Letang is not the way to do that.

We all need to watch Chicago in these playoffs. That's what our system is designed to look like, for the most part. Guys like Letang, Martin and Despres fit that perfectly. Guys like Engelland and Murray, not so much.

Agreed. I'd love for our team to get faster, like we've seen in the past. The fact remains, Letang is probably going to price himself out of a realistic contract in terms of how this team is structured going forward. Signing him at $7M+ per year is just impractical for the Penguins. It hurts us in too many other areas, in my opinion.

 

[IcedCapp]

I should have said luxuries or benefits, my bad. I stand by it, though. He's valuable but not irreplaceable or the only way to do it.

Are those, "rare offensive abilities," worth more to this team than a stable and reliable defense? I'm not sure they are, and not in a way that could potentially weaken the actual offense. I've already said that I'd like to keep him, this is just why I don't think he must be kept no matter what.


I've always hated the idea of a chocolate on a pillow, it's also always a disgusting mint chocolate in my experience.

The Penguins gave up 2 and 1 goals in the last 2 games of the series and Vokoun had one of the best sv% and GAA in the playoffs. Where is this thought that they are desperate for defensive dmen.

You can find defensive dmen ANYWHERE. They are not important. They are not valuable. They are not rare. They are not hard to find.

The Penguins had Eaton, Engelland, Orpik, and Murray play in the ECF. They are all "stay at home guys." I'm not interested in building my defense around any of them.

Keep Letang and build around him. He's the kind of guy you build around on defense. And no one is providing me any reason to think otherwise.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Agreed. I'd love for our team to get faster, like we've seen in the past. The fact remains, Letang is probably going to price himself out of a realistic contract in terms of how this team is structured going forward. Signing him at $7M+ per year is just impractical for the Penguins. It hurts us in too many other areas, in my opinion.

I completely disagree. Not sure what else to say that IC hasn't already said.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't understand this. To our team he's gotta be worth more. I love how deep our defensive prospect pool is, but it's a prospect pool. If you remove Letang from the team, who is carrying the puck? Where are those 30 minutes going? I love Paul Martin, and while I think he's light years better in a lot of ways, he doesn't have Letang's overall offensive ability.

Say we sign Kris for $7M-$7.5M/yr for 8 years or so.

That doesn't leave a whole lot of room to A. surround our generational talents with legit wingers, B. fill out the rest of the defensive corps.

Orpik's deal is almost up. Kunitz's is as well. If Despres plays big minutes this season, he's looking at a pretty sizable raise, assuming he does well for himself.

It goes beyond whether or not Letang's incredible skating (still not sure his offensive game is where it should be, despite point totals, and his defense could use a lot of work) is worth the $7M+ per year.

The Penguins gave up 2 and 1 goals in the last 2 games of the series and Vokoun had one of the best sv% and GAA in the playoffs. Where is this thought that they are desperate for defensive dmen.

You can find defensive dmen ANYWHERE. They are not important. They are not valuable. They are not rare. They are not hard to find.

The Penguins had Eaton, Engelland, Orpik, and Murray play in the ECF. They are all "stay at home guys." I'm not interested in building my defense around any of them.

Keep Letang and build around him. He's the kind of guy you build around on defense. And no one is providing me any reason to think otherwise.

You can't build a defensive corps around a $7M-$7.5M/yr guy when you've already built your team around two centers making (and deservedly so) a shade over $18M/yr for the next decade. Especially when you add in Fleury's $5M, Martin's $5M and Neal's $5M.

And just to clarify, I'm ALL FOR jettisoning Fleury and his contract and going with goalie by committee with two guys equal or less than what he makes, meanwhile keeping Letang at $7M+. I just don't see it happening.

 

[IcedCapp]

Say we sign Kris for $7M-$7.5M/yr for 8 years or so.

That doesn't leave a whole lot of room to A. surround our generational talents with legit wingers, B. fill out the rest of the defensive corps.

Orpik's deal is almost up. Kunitz's is as well. If Despres plays big minutes this season, he's looking at a pretty sizable raise, assuming he does well for himself.

It goes beyond whether or not Letang's incredible skating (still not sure his offensive game is where it should be, despite point totals, and his defense could use a lot of work) is worth the $7M+ per year.

I disagree, but I've posted about a dozen rosters recently that support my point, so obviously that doesn't matter, instead, let's try it this way:

show me a roster with "adequate wingers" for the top-6 and a good defense that doesn't have Letang. What does that look like to you?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

The Penguins gave up 2 and 1 goals in the last 2 games of the series and Vokoun had one of the best sv% and GAA in the playoffs. Where is this thought that they are desperate for defensive dmen.

You can find defensive dmen ANYWHERE. They are not important. They are not valuable. They are not rare. They are not hard to find.

The Penguins had Eaton, Engelland, Orpik, and Murray play in the ECF. They are all "stay at home guys." I'm not interested in building my defense around any of them.

Keep Letang and build around him. He's the kind of guy you build around on defense. And no one is providing me any reason to think otherwise.

There is a medium between the Letangs and the Murrays of the world. The relative commonness of defensive defensemen also means that they are cheaper and that the cap space can go towards other areas. In a world with no cap -or no Fleury- it would be different.

I'm not saying that Letang shouldn't be built around or that he's worthless, just that there are other options. He can price himself out because he's not irreplaceable. Losing Letang wouldn't be the end of the world, it would be a bad thing in many ways, but it's something that wouldn't be unimaginable.

I think we're just going to talk in circles at this point because we don't agree and may not be understanding each other.

 

[Ogrezilla]

There is a medium between the Letangs and the Murrays of the world. The relative commonness of defensive defensemen also means that they are cheaper and that the cap space can go towards other areas.

I'm not saying that Letang shouldn't be built around or that he's worthless, just that there are other options. He can price himself out because he's not irreplaceable. Losing Letang wouldn't be the end of the world, it would be a bad thing in many ways, but it's something that wouldn't be unimaginable.

I think we're just going to talk in circles at this point because we don't agree and may not be understanding each other.

we understand each other. we just completely disagree. you're right, its just going in circles.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Say we sign Kris for $7M-$7.5M/yr for 8 years or so.

That doesn't leave a whole lot of room to A. surround our generational talents with legit wingers, B. fill out the rest of the defensive corps.

Orpik's deal is almost up. Kunitz's is as well. If Despres plays big minutes this season, he's looking at a pretty sizable raise, assuming he does well for himself.

It goes beyond whether or not Letang's incredible skating (still not sure his offensive game is where it should be, despite point totals, and his defense could use a lot of work) is worth the $7M+ per year.



You can't build a defensive corps around a $7M-$7.5M/yr guy when you've already built your team around two centers making (and deservedly so) a shade over $18M/yr for the next decade. Especially when you add in Fleury's $5M, Martin's $5M and Neal's $5M.

And just to clarify, I'm ALL FOR jettisoning Fleury and his contract and going with goalie by committee with two guys equal or less than what he makes, meanwhile keeping Letang at $7M+. I just don't see it happening.

I disagree.

Signing Letang for $7m a year is an increase of $3.5m of what he's making now. He's way underpaid now as it is.

Cut the fat on this team and you have your $3.5m for an impact player. Buh bye to Tanner Glass, TK, trade Niskanen and use Despres instead, etc and you have the difference saved right there.

The year his contract kicks in, the cap will have gone back up because the NHL salary cap is linked to the NHL revenues. Revenues increasing = higher salary cap.

The year the salary cap goes up, Fleury will be in his last year. Kunitz, Vokoun, Jokinen, Glass, Orpik, and Niskanen will be a FA's.. Fleury sure as hell isn't going to get $5m again from anyone.

Again, Letang's increase isn't anything to fret about unless he wants a monster contract well over $7m per. Compare Letang to other people making $5m+ and more and I'll happily take Tanger at $7m. Gonchar just got $5m per for 2 years and some people think Letang should sign for $5.5m. LOL. WTF are you smoking?

Also, concerned about wingers to surround the stars with? Bennett gives a lot of cap space/flexibility for a few years also.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I disagree, but I've posted about a dozen rosters recently that support my point, so obviously that doesn't matter, instead, let's try it this way:

show me a roster with "adequate wingers" for the top-6 and a good defense that doesn't have Letang. What does that look like to you?

I'd have to cap-geek out for a little bit, but I'm sure it's possible. Especially with what we'd be getting in return for Letang.

I'm just saying the loss of Letang would hurt, for sure, and there would be a definite adjustment period. But, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I just think, and it's only an opinion, that we'd be able to adjust to life without Letang far easier than life with an overpriced (relative to our team and it's financial makeup) Letang and a thin team around a handful of mega contracts.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

There is a medium between the Letangs and the Murrays of the world. The relative commonness of defensive defensemen also means that they are cheaper and that the cap space can go towards other areas. In a world with no cap -or no Fleury- it would be different.

I'm not saying that Letang shouldn't be built around or that he's worthless, just that there are other options. He can price himself out because he's not irreplaceable. Losing Letang wouldn't be the end of the world, it would be a bad thing in many ways, but it's something that wouldn't be unimaginable.

I think we're just going to talk in circles at this point because we don't agree and may not be understanding each other.

Our team sucks when Letang isn't in the lineup. We play better without Malkin/Crosby than we do without Letang. Steve Mears even mentioned earlier how thin the Pens D is and if we deal Letang, then what? Who is going to eat up 25-30 minutes a game?

The problem is the Pens need to support Letang with another solid D talent, like Keith has Seabrook, Lidstrom had Rafalski, etc. He turns the puck over because he plays with the likes of Eaton. When Letang is eating up that many minutes, do you want Eaton eating that many up also?