Confirmed with Link: Sheldon Keefe named Marlies coach

[Menzinger]

DJ Smith has a better resume, it would be hard to argue against this. Since he took over Oshawa from Assistant Coach in Windsor. That franchise has been on a steady rise year after year, that ended with a Memorial Cup weeks ago.

He's impressive, not sure if he was even interviewed. If not, he should have been. DJ Smith has been a winner everywhere he has coached.

It's not just about having the best CV though - it's how well they fit within the existing management and coaching team. If Smith clashed with Babcocks coaching philosophy or Shanahan's/Dubas/hunters view of player development he'd be a bad fit for the team.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It's not just about having the best CV though - it's how well they fit within the existing management and coaching team. If Smith clashed with Babcocks coaching philosophy or Shanahan's/Dubas/hunters view of player development he'd be a bad fit for the team.

Keefe has more familiarity to Dubas, Smith is a young new breed Coach too. And frankly it is about CV's. I am not saying Keefe was a wrong choice on a strictly coaching POV. But the question was asked who was the best choice. All things considered DJ Smith is the best Coach in the OHL right now, maybe the entire CJHL. He will land somewhere soon.

 

[IBeL34f]

As long as we find some way to keep these guys around. Good teams like Detroit hung on to their AGMs (and other staff) for many seasons, and I think that's the way Shanahan is thinking. Put a team in place, give them lots of input, pay them well, make them excited to see this thing through all the way.

Yeah, I don't see Dubas going anywhere any time soon. I think the great thing with bringing in these guys for their first cup of tea in an NHL position is that it begets loyalty. People remember who gave them their first shot, and as long as we start carrying out our plan and making this a great place to be, people won't want to leave. I also think Shanny sees Dubas as someone who, once the rebuild has borne fruit, gets to take the reins moving forward as GM here.

People should understand as well that most teams don't go through the constant shifts in management like we have over the past decade. There are only so many GM jobs, and plenty of capable people to occupy them. Not everyone who becomes a good AGM or assistant coach is going to get snagged up by another team after a year, because there just aren't all that many jobs to be had. We've seen tons of turn-over within our ranks recently, but that's also because we haven't found proper fits for our organization yet. People like stability, businesses like stability, and when you become a piece that fits snug into the puzzle, not everyone wants to take themselves out right away.

The hope right now is to build a complete management team that works together to help build a successful organization from the ground up, through scouting and development, from the ECHL to the NHL, and eventually become a machine as well-oiled as Detroit or Chicago have been. Shanahan, Hunter, Dubas and Babcock are all on board, and now we get to find out how well Keefe works with that vision. Regardless of who coaches, next year is big for the Marlies, with the kids taking over, a full year from Nylander, and potential new recruits like Gauthier, Verhaeghe and Valiev stepping in. Gonna be an exciting development season, if nothing else.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Honestly I think Shanny is just gonna stall the GM search long enough that he can justify naming Dubas GM. Probably next summer.

If Dubas isnt GM, then i think we'll see him given one of those AGM contracts like Nonis had - Payed more then any other AGM with the understanding that he isnt leaving for another organization.

See. this is v. interesting.
because Hunter (as it really sounds like from circles) is the guy running the show + wanting the job. (everything I heard from Dubas is that he is really loving what he is doing and really wanting to make the R&D department of the Leafs the thing of Legends, and all of that stuff). So maybe that in itself would be something to entice him not to go etc. he mentioned in an interview that resources and resourcefulness is not the same thing, and while the Leafs have a lot of one, they need to adapt a lot of the other. he could very easily be happy being where he wants to be for a v. long time and then branch out later.

I can see Hunter or Dubas being named - I just don't know if I see Dubas being named over Hunter. we'll have to see.

 

[IBeL34f]

Keefe has more familiarity to Dubas, Smith is a young new breed Coach too. And frankly it is about CV's. I am not saying Keefe was a wrong choice on a strictly coaching POV. But the question was asked who was the best choice. All things considered DJ Smith is the best Coach in the OHL right now, maybe the entire CJHL. He will land somewhere soon.

That's where you have to make the distinction between "Best" and "Best for us", which is what Menzinger was talking about. It's the same situation we had with Babcock, but on a smaller scale, where if he hadn't fit 100% with management's philosophy, he wouldn't be here. Smith could very well be the best coach in the CHL, to be honest I don't know enough to weigh in, but my guess is that Shanny and Co. see Keefe as the best fit for us right now and moving forward.

Perhaps they didn't see Smith as someone who would be comfortable in the AHL for too long, that he was someone who wants to move through the ranks quickly, make a name for himself and find an NHL position as soon as possible, whereas Keefe has more interest in being part of our long-term plans. Just spit-balling, I'm really not sure. But I do think there's more to it than just black and white "Best".

 

[gabeliscious]

See. this is v. interesting.
because Hunter (as it really sounds like from circles) is the guy running the show + wanting the job. (everything I heard from Dubas is that he is really loving what he is doing and really wanting to make the R&D department of the Leafs the thing of Legends, and all of that stuff). So maybe that in itself would be something to entice him not to go etc. he mentioned in an interview that resources and resourcefulness is not the same thing, and while the Leafs have a lot of one, they need to adapt a lot of the other. he could very easily be happy being where he wants to be for a v. long time and then branch out later.

I can see Hunter or Dubas being named - I just don't know if I see Dubas being named over Hunter. we'll have to see.

i dont think dubas is eve 30 years old yet. there is no reason to make him gm over hunter unless the title is only in name. if the position is to be filled from within hunter is the most suitable candidate imo. my concern is his ability to make trades. jfj was a good scout/talent evaluator but clearly crap at making trades.

 

[Bullseye]

Who knows - maybe Smith will be approached to become an assistant coach for the Leafs - rotate him and him up and down between Marlies and Leafs reenforcing Babs message each year. Its all guess work from our side.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

That's where you have to make the distinction between "Best" and "Best for us", which is what Menzinger was talking about. It's the same situation we had with Babcock, but on a smaller scale, where if he hadn't fit 100% with management's philosophy, he wouldn't be here. Smith could very well be the best coach in the CHL, to be honest I don't know enough to weigh in, but my guess is that Shanny and Co. see Keefe as the best fit for us right now and moving forward.

Perhaps they didn't see Smith as someone who would be comfortable in the AHL for too long, that he was someone who wants to move through the ranks quickly, make a name for himself and find an NHL position as soon as possible, whereas Keefe has more interest in being part of our long-term plans. Just spit-balling, I'm really not sure. But I do think there's more to it than just black and white "Best".

You have no way of knowing this. We don't even know if Smith was interviewed. He is a young bright coach that no one would disagree is one of the brightest in the CJHL. And right now we can only speculate who is a better fit. I don't see one NHL team not interested in a guy like Smith. He would fit in almost anywhere.

 

[Guy Boucher]

You have no way of knowing this. We don't even know if Smith was interviewed. He is a young bright coach that no one would disagree is one of the brightest in the CJHL. And right now we can only speculate who is a better fit. I don't see one NHL team not interested in a guy like Smith. He would fit in almost anywhere.

Then why hasn't he been hired yet? Flyers look like they will hire Kris Knoblauch for their AHL job, so that's yet another team to pass on DJ Smith.

Maybe he's not that great a person to deal with, or developmental style coach. Or maybe he doesn't want to leave the OHL, thus making your rants on the subject utterly meaningless

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Who knows - maybe Smith will be approached to become an assistant coach for the Leafs - rotate him and him up and down between Marlies and Leafs reenforcing Babs message each year. Its all guess work from our side.

I wouldn't mind this. If Leafs are really interested in acquiring the best young coaching talent available. DJ Smith would be at the top of the list. He is progressive and a great motivator. I have been on his wagon for years now. I remember how bad Oshawa was when he took over there, it's night and day since he arrived from Windsor to Oshawa.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Then why hasn't he been hired yet? Flyers look like they will hire Kris Knoblauch for their AHL job, so that's yet another team to pass on DJ Smith.

Maybe he's not that great a person to deal with, or developmental style coach. Or maybe he doesn't want to leave the OHL, thus making your rants on the subject utterly meaningless

there are a multitude of possibilities. He very well could like where his bread is buttered and wants to stay where he is. Because if I remember correctly, people were sort of linking us to him last year, and that never went anywhere. Maybe he just doesn't want to move onwards, as shocking as it is. or he doesn't want to work in the AHL (D. Hunter did not do AHL duty he just went from London to Washington to London, did he not)?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Then why hasn't he been hired yet? Flyers look like they will hire Kris Knoblauch for their AHL job, so that's yet another team to pass on DJ Smith.

Maybe he's not that great a person to deal with, or developmental style coach. Or maybe he doesn't want to leave the OHL, thus making your rants on the subject utterly meaningless

So I have liked DJ Smith for years ago, he wins a Memorial Cup without the best team in The OHL as was widely perceived, and now you don't like him because of my supposed rants? Strong argument. Knock DJ because Mentalist has always said he was a great coach.

 

[IBeL34f]

You have no way of knowing this. We don't even know if Smith was interviewed. He is a young bright coach that no one would disagree is one of the brightest in the CJHL. And right now we can only speculate who is a better fit. I don't see one NHL team not interested in a guy like Smith. He would fit in almost anywhere.

Correct. Just like I said in my post.

 

[Daisy Jane]

So I like Smith years ago, and he wins a Memorial Cup without the best team in The OHL, and now you don't like him because of my supposed rants? Strong argument.

where did he say that?

 

[Guy Boucher]

So I have liked DJ Smith for years ago, he wins a Memorial Cup without the best team in The OHL as was widely perceived, and now you don't like him because of my supposed rants? Strong argument. Knock DJ because Mentalist has always said he was a great coach.

Smith might be 10x the coach Keefe is (doubtful) and that still wouldn't make your arguments less nutty.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Correct. Just like I said in my post.

Well you speculated that Keefe was the better fit, he is the more familiar fit. We would agree with this.

As for coaching, both he and Smith did well this year. And as I said, Smith's resume is better at this stage. You told me this did not matter. But obcourse it does. He took a very bad team in Oshawa and turned them into Memorial Cup Champs. I remember watching a lot of their games. Dal Colle at 16 was not the player he is today, as is Hunter Smith who is much better than when he first came to Oshawa. Which makes the earlier assertion he is not a great developmental coach asinine.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Smith might be 10x the coach Keefe is (doubtful) and that still wouldn't make your arguments less nutty.

i am still trying to figure out where you said you didn't like Smith.

anyway. Smith did not get hired, nor does it sound like he'll be hired anywhere else. (though things will change) so it's moot.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Can anyone confirm that Smith wants to leave Oshawa and move up to the NHL/AHL? Because if we're just speculating, it's only fair to keep this idea in mind

 

[mikebel111*]

I love how this one specific poster is saying that we only chose Keefe because he is familiar

IDK maybe teams dont think Smith is that great? Hasnt been hired yet. Overrated naybe?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Can anyone confirm that Smith wants to leave Oshawa and move up to the NHL/AHL? Because if we're just speculating, it's only fair to keep this idea in mind

nope. no one can confirm that. at all.
the only thing i ever recall us being linked to Smith at all was last year, and that never went anywhere.

So to me it plays out one of two ways
1: he was approached last year (because remember we had an opening). and he said no which means - shock, I know, the Leafs more than likely decided not to waste their time and beat down that door.

or

2: He was approached this year (again), and didn't see himself a fit.

like the #1 thing (and IBeL13f said it, Shanahan's been saying it) - the right people may not be the right people for us, for what we plan on doing. it really sounds like they want the Marlies to concentrate on development and the wins will come. vs making the Marlies a winner, and putting development aside. (see. Eakins).

Keefe 100 percent is on board with that.
that's all that matters

 

[The Winter Soldier]

DJ Smith is committed to the World Junior Team next season as an assistant coach. This much we do know.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...anada-s-national-junior-hockey-team-1.3006146

 

[IBeL34f]

Well you speculated that Keefe was the better fit, he is the more familiar fit. We would agree with this.

As for coaching, both he and Smith did well this year. And as I said, Smith's resume is better at this stage. You told me this did not matter. But obcourse it does. He took a very bad team in Oshawa and turned them into Memorial Cup Champs. I remember watching a lot of their games. Dal Colle at 16 was not the player he is today, as is Hunter Smith who is much better than when he first came to Oshawa. Which makes the earlier assertion he is not a great developmental coach asinine.

My speculation is that management sees him as a better fit, and while I suppose he is the more familiar fit, I haven't commented on that, though I don't believe it's too large a part of the hiring.

Also, I never said that who the better coach was didn't matter, I said that they're different things. The best coach in the entire world who isn't a fit for our organization isn't the best coach for us. It's that simple. I have no idea why management doesn't think Smith was the best fit for us, or if that's even the case. Maybe Smith doesn't want to coach for us. Maybe he doesn't want to leave the OHL. Maybe his philosophies don't match up with Babcock and Shanahan's as well as Keefe's do. Not sure who said anything about Smith not being a good development coach, but it certainly wasn't me.

If Shanahan wanted Smith and Smith wanted the Marlies, it would be done. That's it. If Smith didn't want to coach within our organization for whatever reason, that's his prerogative. If Shanahan didn't want Smith to coach within our organization over Keefe, that's his. All we know for sure is that Shanahan has done nothing but put the utmost value on the "right fit". He's said it about the coach, he's said it about the players, and he's said it about the GM role. If you're not buying what we're selling, you're not the best option here. So we know that Shanahan looks beyond the resume. If Shanahan indeed chose Keefe over a willing Smith, you can bet that had a large part in the decision.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

My speculation is that management sees him as a better fit, and while I suppose he is the more familiar fit, I haven't commented on that, though I don't believe it's too large a part of the hiring.

Also, I never said that who the better coach was didn't matter, I said that they're different things. The best coach in the entire world who isn't a fit for our organization isn't the best coach for us. It's that simple. I have no idea why management doesn't think Smith was the best fit for us, or if that's even the case. Maybe Smith doesn't want to coach for us. Maybe he doesn't want to leave the OHL. Maybe his philosophies don't match up with Babcock and Shanahan's as well as Keefe's do. Not sure who said anything about Smith not being a good development coach, but it certainly wasn't me.

If Shanahan wanted Smith and Smith wanted the Marlies, it would be done. That's it. If Smith didn't want to coach within our organization for whatever reason, that's his prerogative. If Shanahan didn't want Smith to coach within our organization over Keefe, that's his. All we know for sure is that Shanahan has done nothing but put the utmost value on the "right fit". He's said it about the coach, he's said it about the players, and he's said it about the GM role. If you're not buying what we're selling, you're not the best option here. So we know that Shanahan looks beyond the resume. If Shanahan indeed chose Keefe over a willing Smith, you can bet that had a large part in the decision.

In the end it does not matter I suppose as I do not see Babcock leaving for a long time. He is the best coach that money can buy, and he surely is not going to be replaced by either Smith or Keefe in his 8 year contract.

The only factors to be considered are development and who Keefe or Smith will get this team compensation in a few years. That's what is likely going to happen.

 

[OHLFan90]

http://overtimesportsnation.com/keefe-named-marlies-head-coach/

 

[grits207]

Keefe has more familiarity to Dubas, Smith is a young new breed Coach too. And frankly it is about CV's. I am not saying Keefe was a wrong choice on a strictly coaching POV. But the question was asked who was the best choice. All things considered DJ Smith is the best Coach in the OHL right now, maybe the entire CJHL. He will land somewhere soon.

I wouldn't be surprised if Smith didn't want the job. IMO he's better off holding out for an NHL job, if not as a head coach then as an assistant.