Sheldon Keefe is a pretty good coach.

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Amazing rebuttal, you've convinced me!

Your division sucks. Be happy about it, you get an easy pass to the conference finals because of it.



Lol how pathetic. Shows you have the maturity of a 3 year old with this crap.

I'm not even insulting the Leafs here, they're obviously a good team. But getting defensive because someone says their division sucks just makes you look like an ultra fanboy.

never thought I'd see Bert get called a Leafs fanboy. you must be pretty lost

 

[Empoleon8771]

The stats also place Montreal at the top of the heap in a number of key metrics. Unfortunately that hasn’t translated for them.

The Leafs style of play transition has enabled them to be successful. That includes a stronger commitment to defence - in other words, a turnaround.

Yeah analytics aren't everything, Montreal sucks because they don't have the talent to actually take advantage of the chances they generate. They're like the anti-Jets, who get absolutely murdered analytically but have the top end talent to still win games despite that.

When you look deeper into it, especially when you look at score adjusted stuff and rates(since not all teams have played the same amount)...

They're literally tied with Tampa for xGA(13th) and in the same ball-park as other elite defensive teams like St.Louis, Columbus and slightly better than other elite defensive teams like the Canes and Knights...

And they play in the most high-octane division for offence, so that's what makes their numbers more impressive IMO.

So not only is their xGA improved, these analytic sites that are able to do the micro-stats, that's where they show the Leafs made the biggest gain.

Here's a piece from TheAthletic touching on it...

"Last season, in odd-man rushes against at even strength, the Leafs were among the 10 worst teams in the league.

This year, they’re up into the top five.

Other areas where the Leafs have made a significant improvement?
1. Shots and shot attempts against from the slot area.
2. Passes to the slot against, especially uncontested ones.
3. High-danger shots against off the rush.

The Leafs were in the bottom 10 in all of those statistics at even strength last season. Now, in many cases, they’re up among the league leaders. Or, at worst, league average."

This is all fair to point out, I'm just curious why the improvements in micro-stats aren't being reflected in their macro-stats.

Hockeyviz does show them to have an improvement, but they've gone from "bad" (+8%) to "average" (+0%). I'm surprised more analytics sites don't show better results if their micro stats are that good.

 

[GOilers88]

I understand that there are people out there who want to undermine any success Toronto achieves, but for my part, there's no such thing as a weak playoff team as far as I'm concerned.

Any team in the post-season has the potential to play a spoiler against anyone.

It's part of the reason why I love the first round of the NHL playoffs so much - more so than any other major sport.

Well said. I find it amusing how people will sit and point to certain teams as weak and easy wins, like we don't have upsets basically every single year. Doesn't seem to matter to some people though, they just come back with the same crap year after year.

 

[Drytoast]

Cherrypicking sample sizes doesn't help your case

I guess I can buy that they had a "defensive turnaround" because they went from a bad defensive team to an okay defensive team, but that's not really the "turnaround" that is being implied in this thread.



Yeah because I don't jump to insane conclusions based on a 3 game sample size.

The stats say what the stats say, you're free to believe them or not. But analytically, the Leafs are a mediocre defensive team that's getting great goaltending right now. Maybe that is "better" than what they were in the past, but the talk in this thread is saying they're way better than that.

No instead you are jumping to conclusions having not watched ANY games.

Our goaltending isn't the difference. And LOL at you for thinking it is.

 

[Empoleon8771]

never thought I'd see Bert get called a Leafs fanboy. you must be pretty lost

Idk if a fan in a Leafs fan is getting ultra defensive because I said "the North sucks outside of the Leafs", I'll believe they're a Leafs fan who's getting defensive about someone trying to delegitimatize their hot start.

Sorry I don't keep tabs on what fanbase every single poster belongs to.

 

[Peasy]

there are just as many, if not more, expecting the leafs to be crowned king less than half way through the regular season. until the team, at a bare minimum, wins a playoff round, none of the frustrating criticisms are going away.

the achieving minimum standards and getting maximum credit shtick from leaf fans is exhausting. win something and shut people up.

Where are these people saying the Leafs have already won the cup?

Reality is, that most of the fan base knows that this team still NEEDS to prove something in the playoffs, but are optimistic with how the team has looked this year. Because frankly, the past 3 year Leaf teams don't look anywhere near as good as this one has. And its not like the Leafs have been brutally beaten up in the playoffs either. Every single one of their series since Matthews has been close. Theres been no stomps.

 

[X66]

Hockeyviz does show them to have an improvement, but they've gone from "bad" (+8%) to "average" (+0%). I'm surprised more analytics sites don't show better results if their micro stats are that good.

I think it is showing, but because the season is so fresh a month like January can impact a teams overall numbers negatively, when most teams were still getting their legs under them etc.

For example, on Natural StatTrick from February 1st to today, they're top 10 in xGA and High Danger Chances against per/60

Don't think they were ever that under Babcock lol.

 

[GOilers88]

Amazing rebuttal, you've convinced me!

Your division sucks. Be happy about it, you get an easy pass to the conference finals because of it.



Lol how pathetic. Shows you have the maturity of a 3 year old with this crap.

I'm not even insulting the Leafs here, they're obviously a good team. But getting defensive because someone says their division sucks just makes you look like an ultra fanboy.

I think with Calgary and Vancouver vastly underperforming compared to last year it's given the illusion that everyone sucks,which I just don't agree with.

Winnipeg, Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver and Edmonton are all decent teams with Toronto being the class thus far. There's a lot of elite talent spread across those teams, and the big drop off from Van/Calgary makes it look worse than it is.

Just my opinion.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No instead you are jumping to conclusions having not watched ANY games.

Our goaltending isn't the difference. And LOL at you for thinking it is.

You making those claims doesn't magically make anything true.

The Leafs goaltending is like 2nd best in the NHL so far this year, trailing only Tampa Bay. Their 5v5 save% would have them basically equal Boston last year. Their current top-5 GA totals are entirely because of goaltending, because they're not a top-5 team based on the caliber of shots they give up.

I'm not saying that the Jets are world beaters but what team in the NHL has a better top six than the Jets?
What team has better C depth?



As for the Leafs. If they destroy the Jets in the three games next week I will be a believer. So far they have beat up teams that the Jets also have winning records against and I don't think the Jets are a great team.

What teams have a better defense than the Jets?

Answer: a lot of them.

 

[Gnova]

You making those claims doesn't magically make anything true.

The Leafs goaltending is like 2nd best in the NHL so far this year, trailing only Tampa Bay. Their 5v5 save% would have them basically equal Boston last year. Their current top-5 GA totals are entirely because of goaltending, because they're not a top-5 team based on the caliber of shots they give up.



What teams have a better defense than the Jets?

Answer: a lot of them.

I don't disagree with you on defense but the team is 2 top four D from being elite.
That is hardly bottom dwelling trash.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think with Calgary and Vancouver vastly underperforming compared to last year it's given the illusion that everyone sucks,which I just don't agree with.

Winnipeg, Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver and Edmonton are all decent teams with Toronto being the class thus far. There's a lot of elite talent spread across those teams, and the big drop off from Van/Calgary makes it look worse than it is.

Just my opinion.

I feel like the issue is that you can't win with just elite talent alone. That's why the Leafs are globetrotting so hard this year, they have both elite talent and good depth. If you match up McDavid/Draisaitl with Matthews/Tavares and then can still throw out Marner, Nylander and such, you're going to smack teams around.

Pretty much every other team in that division has some sort of massive roster flaw that the Leafs don't have anything even close to. The biggest hole the Leafs had was filled with signing Brodie last off-season.

 

[Golden_Jet]

the Leafs are actually 10th best in xGA/60 and the best since February. They've also drastically cut down odd man rushes against

5 on 5 they are 25th in xGA
Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

All strengths they are 6th in xGA
Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[bert]

Amazing rebuttal, you've convinced me!

Your division sucks. Be happy about it, you get an easy pass to the conference finals because of it.



Lol how pathetic. Shows you have the maturity of a 3 year old with this crap.

I'm not even insulting the Leafs here, they're obviously a good team. But getting defensive because someone says their division sucks just makes you look like an ultra fanboy.

Im not even a leafs fans. Try harder! Must have really struck a nerve eh.

Idk if a fan in a Leafs fan is getting ultra defensive because I said "the North sucks outside of the Leafs", I'll believe they're a Leafs fan who's getting defensive about someone trying to delegitimatize their hot start.

Sorry I don't keep tabs on what fanbase every single poster belongs to.

Not defensive just noting how terrible your evaluation is.

You're probably one of those pens fans who boo's Jagr.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Im not even a leafs fans. Try harder! Must have really struck a nerve eh.

You're not important enough for me to keep tabs on what team you support.

Sorry for thinking a poster getting defensive in a Leafs thread about someone saying "the Leafs are in a shit division" is a Leafs fan.

 

[bert]

You're not important enough for me to keep tabs on what team you support.

Sorry for thinking a poster getting defensive in a Leafs thread about someone saying "the Leafs are in a shit division" is a Leafs fan.

Sorry for you still being so bitter about the Habs taking the Penguins to the woodshed last year in the playoffs. You'd think a person that is a fan of a team that has had as much success as the Penguins could handle a loss better.

 

[Voight]

Keefe had a bad rep a while ago because of the whole Mike Danton/Jefferson bullying thing as well as his conduct during his time in the OHL. He completely rebounded when he bought a Junior A team and had immediate success, then carried that to the OHL and then AHL. He's done great at every level during his 15 year rise through the hockey ranks.

He also made the right choice in pairing Matthews/Marner and giving them way more ice time.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Leafs are so bad that the last time they got swept was in 1981 iirc lol.
We have been duped, hoodwinked, and straight-up lied to. This current team won't get anywhere.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

Leafs are so bad that the last time they got swept was in 1981 iirc lol.
We have been duped, hoodwinked, and straight-up lied to. This current team won't get anywhere.

Last time they got swept? That's your bar for success?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sorry for you still being so bitter about the Habs taking the Penguins to the woodshed last year in the playoffs. You'd think a person that is a fan of a team that has had as much success as the Penguins could handle a loss better.

Oh neat, my team sucks now. Congratulations. The Habs still suck though.

You're doing a really bad job at "not being a Leafs fan" tbh. Really looking desperate in here.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Last time they got swept? That's your bar for success?

It was clearly a joke, lol.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Oh neat, my team sucks now. Congratulations. The Habs still suck though.

You're doing a really bad job at "not being a Leafs fan" tbh. Really looking desperate in here.

It seems like the team he cheers for is super important to you, so it's weird that you're drawing the line at bothering to get it right

 

[Drytoast]

You making those claims doesn't magically make anything true.

The Leafs goaltending is like 2nd best in the NHL so far this year, trailing only Tampa Bay. Their 5v5 save% would have them basically equal Boston last year. Their current top-5 GA totals are entirely because of goaltending, because they're not a top-5 team based on the caliber of shots they give up.



What teams have a better defense than the Jets?

Answer: a lot of them.

Well I could point out the elevated play of justin holl. Who along with muzz just shot down the top scoring line to just 10 shots and no points in 3 games.

Ya ask edmonton how many grade a scoring chances they got and if it was the goalie who shit them down. Why not take a glance at their game threads and read their comments. It will tell ya all you need to know.

I could just ignore the impact bogosian has had on our blue line adding size to clear out the front of our net.

I could suggest that a goalie like hutch who we had last year and who couldn't win a game to save his life...niw he looks like a starter this year. Now maybe he suddenly improved his play or it's more than likely the team has improved their defensive play?

Maybe all these things don't play into an improved defense by the leafs...but you'll have to come back at me with something more tangible than your emotions.

Good luck!

 

[Empoleon8771]

It seems like the team he cheers for is super important to you, so it's weird that you're drawing the line at bothering to get it right

It's really not, though.

Again, the poster is getting really defensive in a Leafs thread about the suggestion that other teams in the Leafs division are bad. So sorry for assuming that fan was a Leafs fan.

Well I could point out the elevated play of justin hill. Who along with muzz just shot down the top scoring line to just 10 shots and no points in 3 games.

I could just ignore the impact bogosian has had on our blue line adding size to clear out the front of our net.

I could suggest that a goalie like hutch who seewe had last year and who couldn't win a game last year to save his life...niw he looks like a starter this year. Now maybe he suddenly improved his play or it's more than likely the team has improved their defensive play?

Maybe all these things don't play into an improved defense by the leafs...but you'll have to come back at me with something more tangible than your emotions.

Good luck!

Literally your entire argument is your emotions

My opinion was based on their analytics, not emotions. Now someone rightfully pointed out that other stats paint them as much better defensively, and those stats aren't being fully captured in their analytics. That's actually a valid point to mention. But to act like my claim was pure emotions, when your claims are just that, is laughable.

 

[bert]

Oh neat, my team sucks now. Congratulations. The Habs still suck though.

You're doing a really bad job at "not being a Leafs fan" tbh. Really looking desperate in here.

Well thats confusing I thought all the teams in the Atlantic were really good compared to the lowley North.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well thats confusing I thought all the teams in the Atlantic were really good compared to the lowley North.

No you just can't read.

This whole interaction is hilarious. To think that someone would get ultra defensive in a Leafs fan over someone suggesting that the other Canadian teams suck compared to the Leafs is hilarious.