Sharks to get Ice Team in 2014-2015

[ADifferentTim]

1. Professional sports is no longer just about sports. When I travel overseas the #1 hat I see is a New York Yankees cap. Number one college apparel is USC--where neither they or anyone in their family went to that school. (Yes, you can consider these guys "pros", ask Reggie Bush)

2. It's naive to think it should just "be about the hockey". The Sharks have fallen behind the curve. While the hockey side of operations is running smooth, the larger business side has been a bust. How do you have average over 97% attendance, with reasonable player contracts, make the playoffs every year and still come out with a huge loss?

We can point to our TV contract, but the bigger question is why didn't the Sharks have the leverage to ask for more?

As popular as the Sharks are, outside of the Southbay its hard to find large support. SF, Oakland--they should be dominating these markets. I imagine Comcast knows the viewing numbers in these major cities and used it against them. Many other factors, but that's one example where lack of outreach can hurt at the negotiating table.

Though the Ice Team is a small piece of the bigger puzzle they do help cast a wider net to help create new fans.

I purposely cut off the first set of paragraphs because they have been debated ad nauseum.

1. I even previously told something similar to that to Clowe Me for emphasis in the Non-Sharks NorCal Sports thread.

2. San Jose is the only NorCal city to hit the one million population mark or closest to it. The combined populations of San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland are between 50%~60% of the population of Los Angeles, when only the city limit population is used for reference.

For reference, the 2013 US Census:

San Jose: 998,537
San Francisco: 837,442
Oakland: 406,253
=2,242,232

Los Angeles: 3,884,307

Basically, SJ/SF/OAK respective city limits combined population equate to 57% of Los Angeles city limit population while inversely speaking, L.A. has 173% more people than San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland combined.

Sure, the Sharks are increasing their presence outside of Santa Clara County, but they need to give incentives to the rest of the SF Bay Area outside of Santa Clara County to attend Sharks games. I live in the easternmost city of Los Angeles County but that doesn't discourage me from going to STAPLES Center, because I can take a one hour express bus ride.

 

[deekortiz3]

As someone who is very against the Ice Girls idea, this Ice Team thing doesn't seem all that bad. Tank Patrol with a bit more pizzazz, basically.

 

[SC2008]

I purposely cut off the first set of paragraphs because they have been debated ad nauseum.

1. I even previously told something similar to that to Clowe Me for emphasis in the Non-Sharks NorCal Sports thread.

2. San Jose is the only NorCal city to hit the one million population mark or closest to it. The combined populations of San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland are between 50%~60% of the population of Los Angeles, when only the city limit population is used for reference.

For reference, the 2013 US Census:

San Jose: 998,537
San Francisco: 837,442
Oakland: 406,253
=2,242,232

Los Angeles: 3,884,307

Basically, SJ/SF/OAK respective city limits combined population equate to 57% of Los Angeles city limit population while inversely speaking, L.A. has 173% more people than San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland combined.

Sure, the Sharks are increasing their presence outside of Santa Clara County, but they need to give incentives to the rest of the SF Bay Area outside of Santa Clara County to attend Sharks games. I live in the easternmost city of Los Angeles County but that doesn't discourage me from going to STAPLES Center, because I can take a one hour express bus ride.

1.) Haha, nice. Fashion is such a huge part of sports. There's no loyalty. Saw Snoop wearing a Hartford Whalers sweater on Kimmel because it matched the rest of his attire.

2.) Good find on the numbers. Didn't realize LA was so far ahead, but I'm not surprised. Kings have done a fantastic job in a tough market with so many other distractions. Having AEG helps.

2013 Kings were ranked #10 in Forbes valuation. At the pace they're growing, would not be surprised to see them go higher on that list years from now.

Sharks are at #13. They have a huge opportunity to grow next season if they get the outdoor game--especially if its played at AT&T. Its probably another reason to have an ice team in place--they're going to hit the streets and promote the heck out of it.

 

[Leidi J]

To those that think the people who find this distasteful are in the minority.... immediate backlash on twitter from more than just 'a few of the same people' as was said here:

https://storify.com/madebymiedema/s...=t.co&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter
(keep clicking the 'read' next page' for all of it)

http://butattheendoftheday.com/2014/07/02/sharks-ice-girls/

http://www.fearthefin.com/2014/7/2/...girls-is-a-middle-finger-to-their-female-fans

The noise about this is only going to get louder...

And for those who STILL don't seem to get it:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-daddy/the-institutional-sexism-of-nhl-ice-girls-184301561.html

 

[one2gamble]

To those that think the people who find this distasteful are in the minority.... immediate backlash on twitter from more than just 'a few of the same people' as was said here:

https://storify.com/madebymiedema/s...=t.co&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter
(keep clicking the 'read' next page' for all of it)

http://butattheendoftheday.com/2014/07/02/sharks-ice-girls/

http://www.fearthefin.com/2014/7/2/...girls-is-a-middle-finger-to-their-female-fans

The noise about this is only going to get louder...

And for those who STILL don't seem to get it:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-daddy/the-institutional-sexism-of-nhl-ice-girls-184301561.html

Let me know when they start *****ing about cheerleaders in every other sport going all the way back into high school....at least these girls are doing something other than jiggling their tiggles for the crowd.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Let me know when they start *****ing about cheerleaders in every other sport going all the way back into high school....at least these girls are doing something other than jiggling their tiggles for the crowd.

Everyone else doing it doesn't make it right.

 

[ADifferentTim]

1.) Haha, nice. Fashion is such a huge part of sports. There's no loyalty. Saw Snoop wearing a Hartford Whalers sweater on Kimmel because it matched the rest of his attire.

2.) Good find on the numbers. Didn't realize LA was so far ahead, but I'm not surprised. Kings have done a fantastic job in a tough market with so many other distractions. Having AEG helps.

2013 Kings were ranked #10 in Forbes valuation. At the pace they're growing, would not be surprised to see them go higher on that list years from now.

Sharks are at #13. They have a huge opportunity to grow next season if they get the outdoor game--especially if its played at AT&T. Its probably another reason to have an ice team in place--they're going to hit the streets and promote the heck out of it.

1. Actually, it proves my point that the Yankees are the single most recognizable American sports franchise worldwide.

2. The Sharks have NorCal for itself but they're not capitalizing enough... .

 

[corbanSOG]

As someone who is very against the Ice Girls idea, this Ice Team thing doesn't seem all that bad. Tank Patrol with a bit more pizzazz, basically.

I'm against Ice Girls too, and I'd like to think we're beyond the need for eye candy to keep us engaged at games, but this doesn't seem too bad.

All I ask is they they keep it fair. If the girls need to be fit and attractive enough to bare their midriffs and wear tights, then the guys should be judged on attractiveness too and wear sleeveless jerseys and bike shorts to show their muscly arms and tight butts.

 

[Nighthock]

The Blackhawks ice girls in hockey socks...

Love that look

 

[one2gamble]

Everyone else doing it doesn't make it right.

It also does not make it wrong

 

[corbanSOG]

It also does not make it wrong

Maybe it's not an issue of "right" and "wrong," maybe it's a question of what's "better." What's better for the future of our society and the young girls watching sports and attending games today? Is it better for us to give them examples of women that show they can be the future artists, scientists, professional athletes, and leaders of the world? Or, to give them one more example of women being objectified and judged solely on their appearance and attractiveness?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It also does not make it wrong

It doesn't but the actual argument that people use to convey their side of it is certainly reasonable and compelling. For a game that's for everyone and a game that has done a lot to rid itself of certain stigmas, they still carry with them with this kind of thing a stigma of sexism. Whether people care about that or not is personal preference obviously.

 

[deekortiz3]

To those that think the people who find this distasteful are in the minority.... immediate backlash on twitter from more than just 'a few of the same people' as was said here:

https://storify.com/madebymiedema/s...=t.co&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter
(keep clicking the 'read' next page' for all of it)

http://butattheendoftheday.com/2014/07/02/sharks-ice-girls/

http://www.fearthefin.com/2014/7/2/...girls-is-a-middle-finger-to-their-female-fans

The noise about this is only going to get louder...

And for those who STILL don't seem to get it:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-daddy/the-institutional-sexism-of-nhl-ice-girls-184301561.html

Leidi, you've got to admit that every article about the "Ice Team" has been pretty sensationalist. I almost thought the Sharks would get props for keeping up with the times but doing it in a respectable manner but then every piece I saw called the group they are building Ice Girls and started complaining about all these preconceived ideas that they have regarding Ice Girls.

If this turns out to truly be a co-ed group which is basically a more unified and marketable Tank Patrol, I would be really happy. I'll give the Sharks a chance to see if that is what happens. They clearly must be afraid of a backlash, if they weren't they would just be called "Ice Girls" and the promo shots would be girls in skimpy outfits like other teams have.

The Fear The Fin article in particular felt so forced. They want so badly for people to get offended by this but I think the Sharks could do this in a good classy way that could really set an example to other teams.

 

[OffSydes]

I think what some people might be over looking is the Sharks are trying to more involved in the community and growing the fasebase.. We might see more than dumb "This is Sharks Territory " billboards in the city.


They finally had a draft party, want their people to be active on social media, the ice team will do community events etc..

 

[Requin]

Here's the thing. Everyone is talking about how Ice Team is so much better than e.g. Dallas Ice Girls because the outfits are less extreme. I feel like the amount of fabric present is a moot point. The issue is whether or not the girls are on the ice for primarily ogling purposes.

The message with eye candy girls, no matter where they fall on the "skanky to subtly sexy" scale, is "this is what our fans want". And by "fans", we mean straight men. This makes me, as a female fan, feel at best ignored and at worst ostracized. It reinforces the all-pervasive attitude of sports being a men's world, unless you are there for ornamentation.

With the Ice Team, I give them credit for staying co-ed and for not explicitly advertising it as a Hot Babes Emporium. That makes it better. And heck, if they also hire the men with aesthetic in mind and outfit them in reasonably attractive clothes, I'll forgive the whole affair as frivolous but not offensive.

My impression, though, is that they're keeping the dudes around as a PR wall and possibly to cover some of the workload. It's just a smokescreen for more Women-As-Decoration-In-Sports. So I'm still pretty disappointed by this.

As a final note before I get off my high horse - it's fine if you personally disagree and are excited for Ice Girls. But please don't tell other people how they should feel. When you throw around words like "overreacting" or imply that because you think it's a minor thing everyone else should, you're marginalizing a fellow fan's honest testimony of his/her emotional reaction - one that you may lack the experience to empathize with.

So do I care about the on-ice product much more than this sideshow? Of course I do. But it's a different issue. Signing Scott = the management is stupid. Hiring ice girls = the management is deliberately excluding me. The first may be worse, but the second hurts in a different way.

 

[deekortiz3]

As a final note before I get off my high horse - it's fine if you personally disagree and are excited for Ice Girls. But please tell other people how they should feel. When you throw around words like "overreacting" or imply that because you think it's a minor thing everyone else should, you're marginalizing a fellow fan's honest testimony of his/her emotional reaction - one that you may lack the experience to empathize with.

One note though, at this point I would say that some women in the fan base are overreacting but that is not because I want to tell them how to feel it is because their view of things are getting skewed by what others are saying.

I think folks here are a bit more informed and it isn't an issue in this thread because as you said if it is truly co-ed and just a fun group of guys and girls promoting the team there is really no issue. When I read things on Twitter though it feels like some folks have the impression we are going to attach a pole below the goal lights and girls will be spinning on it through the game.

If the Sharks end up not doing what they say they will and we end up with Ice Girls like in Chicago and LA by all means I will get my pitchfork back out but for now I am just going to hope that they do things right. I also hope that people currently in these roles (Tank Patrol or Ice) get to keep their positions and maybe even get promoted. I'd imagine some of the Tank Patrol folks that have been with the team quite awhile will be leaders in this new group.

 

[Requin]

One note though, at this point I would say that some women in the fan base are overreacting but that is not because I want to tell them how to feel it is because their view of things are getting skewed by what others are saying.

Fair enough. Perhaps a better way to put that than "overreacting" would be "reacting to inaccurate information" - the former implies that the emotions, not the source, are wrong. But I do take your point. I don't know where all this crazy "the Mens' auditions are a lie!" stuff is coming from...

 

[SJGoalie32]

I think folks here are a bit more informed and it isn't an issue in this thread because as you said if it is truly co-ed and just a fun group of guys and girls promoting the team there is really no issue. When I read things on Twitter though it feels like some folks have the impression we are going to attach a pole below the goal lights and girls will be spinning on it through the game.

Of course they wouldn't do that.....those are primo expensive seats.

They'll just set up a stage somewhere else (like the zamboni entrance, or above one of the tunnels) and have them dance there.

I know the Sharks are not going that far right now. Not yet. But many of us see this as a first ridiculous step down that completely unnecessary road.

If the Sharks end up not doing what they say they will and we end up with Ice Girls like in Chicago and LA by all means I will get my pitchfork back out but for now I am just going to hope that they do things right.

Given what they've shown the fans over the last few months, your continued faith and trust that the Sharks organization will do the "right" thing by their fans brings a sentimental tear to my eye.

I was like you once. Your sweet innocence reminds me of a younger, less jaded me.

 

[rangerssharks414]

As someone who is very against the Ice Girls idea, this Ice Team thing doesn't seem all that bad. Tank Patrol with a bit more pizzazz, basically.

Yeah, I'm not as pissed off anymore, either.

 

[SJGoalie32]

I think what some people might be over looking is the Sharks are trying to more involved in the community and growing the fasebase.. We might see more than dumb "This is Sharks Territory " billboards in the city.

They finally had a draft party, want their people to be active on social media, the ice team will do community events etc..

They already have that though. The players do various charity events and interactions with the fans. SJ Sharkie is very active in the community and does many appearances.

If they just wanted to take the Tank Patrol, put them in teal uniforms (although I don't know why....the Sharks uniforms aren't teal anymore, they're black and white now) instead of those bright yellow things, and have the group do more non-game related community events with or without Sharkie, none of this would be an issue.

The issue is that the Sharks organization re-evaluated itself, took a look at this photo of their in-game arena entertainment staff.....

....and basically said, "The problem here is that 7 of the 13 people in this photo aren't displaying enough bare midriff! I gotta have more midriff!"

I resent that. I resent that as a man. I resent that as a husband. I resent that as a father of young girls.

I've always kind of felt that cheerleading itself was rather stupid and saw little point in the scantily-clad dance routines common in football and basketball at all levels. Likewise, I don't really see the need for dancing cheerleaders at NHL games. But if an organization believes its product is going to be improved by hiring a team of skilled coordinated dancers, so be it. At least then the uniforms and the physical conditioning of the girls makes a bit more sense. Most cheerleading costumes are still overly sexualized, IMO, but they serve a purpose in the same way that skin tight uniforms aid an olympic swimmer or runner. You're hiring young, good looking people to dance....skimpier costumes at least fit with a dancer's role.

But shoveling ice? Really? A bare midriff is now required for shoveling ice and firing T-shirts into the crowd with a cannon? And keeping guys on the new Tank Patrol staff is almost worse as it just further highlights the disparity in how men and women are treated. Both men and women will be doing the same jobs here, but if you're a female, you need to expose yourself more because we want our customers to ogle you. I enjoy beautiful girls, but this is just such a cheap cynical outlook from an organization I hoped for (and expected) better from.

 

[Eighth Fret]

Where do things stand with this? Are they doing ice girls (*barf*), or will it be an ice team (made up of men and women dressed appropriately)?

 

[HydroF]

Where do things stand with this? Are they doing ice girls (*barf*), or will it be an ice team (made up of men and women dressed appropriately)?

Its an ice team. Whether or not they are dressed appropriately is a matter of opinion.

 

[corbanSOG]

Where do things stand with this? Are they doing ice girls (*barf*), or will it be an ice team (made up of men and women dressed appropriately)?

It's not so much that the attire is inappropriate, it's that according to the tryout posting by the Sharks, the women now need to meet certain physical requirements and will be wearing tights and a cut-off jersey exposing their midriff. While the men will wear the typical warm-up outfit. Is the outfit scandalous? No, but it's a clear double standard and a step in the wrong direction IMHO.

 

[Eighth Fret]

It's not so much that the attire is inappropriate, it's that according to the tryout posting by the Sharks, the women now need to meet certain physical requirements and will be wearing tights and a cut-off jersey exposing their midriff. While the men will wear the typical warm-up outfit. Is the outfit scandalous? No, but it's a clear double standard and a step in the wrong direction IMHO.

Got it. Agreed on the double standard. Disgusting.

Of all the things they legitimately needed to address this offseason, they choose to focus their attention on firing Drew, adding ice girls (and let's be frank, so long as they're exposing more skin than the guys on the same "team", the org is essentially making them ice girls), and signing John Scott. Extremely disappointed in the Sharks org.


The collapse to the Kings was awful and humiliating (especially after years of defending the Sharks from the choker label), but this is more embarrassing than that. This goes beyond sports. Shame on whoever greenlighted this idea within the organization.

 

[rgb63]

To those that think the people who find this distasteful are in the minority.... immediate backlash on twitter from more than just 'a few of the same people' as was said here:

https://storify.com/madebymiedema/s...=t.co&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter
(keep clicking the 'read' next page' for all of it)

http://butattheendoftheday.com/2014/07/02/sharks-ice-girls/

http://www.fearthefin.com/2014/7/2/...girls-is-a-middle-finger-to-their-female-fans

The noise about this is only going to get louder...

And for those who STILL don't seem to get it:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-daddy/the-institutional-sexism-of-nhl-ice-girls-184301561.html

That proves only that people are concerned. It does not prove that the people who are concerned constitute a majority or minority.