Speculation: Sharks looking to move Niemi (and other goaltending talk)

[hockeyball]

Thornton will likely play another five years. Marleau probably can play another seven or eight.

As for their replacements: Nieto will likely be a poor mans Marleau and so far the ceiling appears to be quite high on Hertl's potential.

I like both of them immensely.

Neither will ever be in Thornton's territory, or likely Marleau's even.

Also, saying they will play 5 years is great, except the odds that they will still be playing at this level at age 40 is pretty silly. A 40 year old Thornton is not as good as a 35 year old Thornton, and a 35 year old Thornton couldn't lead this team to a cup.

What frustrates me is the general acceptance of mediocrity, not just here but seemingly with this organization. Let's be happy with this great regular season team we have here, don't rock the boat, it could be worse!

It could be better too.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I like both of them immensely.

Neither will ever be in Thornton's territory, or likely Marleau's even.

Nieto will never be Marleau's equal, well maybe when Marleau is 41 or 42.

Hertl however, has a much higher ceiling than Nieto. He is big, he skates well, and he has fantastic hands. In five years I think it is possible that Hertl may be in the Hart conversation. The potential is there. We will have to wait and see if he gets there.

Now if you want a good guess as to how good JT will be at forty. Looks at Alfredsson and add about 10 points.

 

[FeedingFrenzy]

Yeah its getting ridiculous. Niemi is better than Stalock.

please elaborate. I'll give you he has experience but that's it IMO. Stalock has a more well rounded game. Nemo can only dream to play the puck like Stalock does. This is a huge advantage to AS and the Sharks.

Nemo is a good goalie but has had a rollercoaster career in SJ. Time to move him and get something in return. Let Nemo backup Stalock until a trade is made.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yeah its getting ridiculous. Niemi is better than Stalock.

I wouldn't go that far. Stalock hasn't been given the ball to really find out if he is or isn't. You don't find out what you have in a goalie unless he is given quite a few consecutive starts to get into a rhythm. He could be but then again he might not be. We don't know because Stalock hasn't gotten that opportunity yet.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Nieto will never be Marleau's equal, well maybe when Marleau is 41 or 42.

Hertl however, has a much higher ceiling than Nieto. He is big, he skates well, and he has fantastic hands. In five years I think it is possible that Hertl may be in the Hart conversation. The potential is there. We will have to wait and see if he gets there.

Now if you want a good guess as to how good JT will be at forty. Looks at Alfredsson and add about 10 points.

I like Hertl as much as the next Sharks fan but this is ridiculous. He's an amazing young player with a high ceiling but Anze Kopitar isn't even in the Hart conversation.

Alfredsson plays much more like Marleau than Thornton.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Niemi's shown to be more than just a 1b it's just that his career has been short enough and, to me, nonconsistent enough that there's questions to what his future as a goalie is like.

See quote after.

"Niemi is a decent backup" good lord.

Good lord what? Niemi is a decent starter, but there is a reason Stalock currently has more years on his contract. The team is going to hand the reigns over to him, whether I agree with it or not.

His best series was against the sharks by a mile, when you look at his stats in the other series. It was the only one he was any good. Fitting

It sure was and it sure is.

Oh boy more regular season wins...

Yeah, the one's that help you get into the playoffs. It's clear by Hannan's words and the action of the nmc bros, this team is going to be halfway decent in the season whether Wilson likes it or not. It's up to him if he wants to actually help the team in the short term by acquiring needs or if he just wants to waste the next 3 seasons.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I like Hertl as much as the next Sharks fan but this is ridiculous. He's an amazing young player with a high ceiling but Anze Kopitar isn't even in the Hart conversation.

Alfredsson plays much more like Marleau than Thornton.

Kopitar should be. But fine, you want to say top five player in the league? Whatever floats your boat.

As for Alfredsson, I don't think so. He always was a very gifted playmaker. You could argue that he may be more in between both. I still stand by what I said. Look at Alfredsson's production and add about ten points. I think ten goals and fifty assists is right on the money for forty year old Thornton.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Kopitar should be. But fine, you want to say top five player in the league? Whatever floats your boat.

You think Hertl is going to be better than one or more of Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Tavares, and Stamkos? Get real.

As for Alfredsson, I don't think so. He always was a very gifted playmaker. You could argue that he may be more in between both. I still stand by what I said. Look at Alfredsson's production and add about ten points. I think ten goals and fifty assists is right on the money for forty year old Thornton.

Okay, I won't disagree with you on the production.

 

[WantonAbandon]

You think Hertl is going to be better than one or more of Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Tavares, and Stamkos? Get real.

It would obviously be a long shot, but the potential is there for him to be able to compete with those guys. Some of those guys may not belong with the others, but that is my opinion.

Here let me ask you this. How much better do you think Crosby and Stamkos are when compared to Kopitar?

 

[Juxtaposer]

It would obviously be a long shot, but the potential is there for him to be able to compete with those guys. Some of those guys may not belong with the others, but that is my opinion.

Here let me ask you this. How much better do you think Crosby and Stamkos are when compared to Kopitar?

I think Crosby is significantly better and Stamkos is significantly worse. I actually don't think particularly highly of either Tavares or Stamkos, but if you want, replace those guys with Getzlaf and Toews.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I think Crosby is significantly better and Stamkos is significantly worse. I actually don't think particularly highly of either Tavares or Stamkos, but if you want, replace those guys with Getzlaf and Toews.

Ah, well then Hertl does have a chance after all.

He has all the tools. He will have to develop. Five years is a long time.

 

[Bizz]

Yeah its getting ridiculous. Niemi is better than Stalock.

Niemi isn't even better than Grosenick/Sateri

 

[Juxtaposer]

Ah, well then Hertl does have a chance after all.

He has all the tools. He will have to develop. Five years is a long time.

Significantly worse than Kopitar is still elite and Stamkos is certainly a top-10 NHLer.

But even if you didn't want to include Stamkos, there is no chance that Hertl is in the same stratosphere as Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Getzlaf, and Toews.

Niemi isn't even better than Grosenick/Sateri

Good one.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Significantly worse than Kopitar is still elite and Stamkos is certainly a top-10 NHLer.

But even if you didn't want to include Stamkos, there is no chance that Hertl is in the same stratosphere as Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Getzlaf, and Toews.
.

Right now, no. In five years... the possibility exists.

 

[TealManV]

I don't like him but Nemo is the best goalie we currently have and that's because he's the only goalie that has a large enough sample size to know what he is capable of. We know what he is: A middle of the pack NHL goalie. I'd like Stalock to be given a legitimate opportunity to see what he is capable of. That's the only way we'll be able to actually determine his potential.

Hertl is a good player but we've only had a very small sample size. I'm very high on him but he's another major knee injury away from being Millan Michalek (I know they're different kinds of players but it's just an example). I do believe that Hertl has the potential to become a Kopitar caliber player if he can avoid major injuries and continue to develop.

None of the players currently in the franchise will be able to do what Thornton and Marleau have done and can do. But that doesn't mean that Couture, Hertl, Nieto, etc. won't be good in their own ways. Only time will tell and right now time is moving incredibly slowly in Sharks land.

 

[sharkbite3]

Niemi isn't even better than Grosenick/Sateri

Er...I think joke? If not...huh.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I don't like him but Nemo is the best goalie we currently have.

Perhaps, but I for one am still interested in seeing what the Sharks have in Stalock and it appears the coaches may as well. Niemi may not want to stick around for that. He has one last chance at a big pay day by NHL standards and to get it, it would be best if he were a sixty plus starter

 

[TealManV]

Perhaps, but I for one am still interested in seeing what the Sharks have in Stalock and it appears the coaches may as well. Niemi may not want to stick around for that. He has one last chance at a big pay day by NHL standards and to get it, it would be best if he were a sixty plus starter

Right. If you read the rest of that post I say that I want Stalock to have a chance to see what he's capable of.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Right. If you read the rest of that post I say that I want Stalock to have a chance to see what he's capable of.

I read the rest of your post. Are you willing to risk losing Niemi to give Stalock his shot?

 

[TealManV]

I read the rest of your post. Are you willing to risk losing Niemi to give Stalock his shot?

Yes I do.

 

[hohosaregood]

Yes I do.

Me too. Goalies start somewhen, somewhy, somewhere, might as well let it be now for Stalock.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Significantly worse than Kopitar is still elite and Stamkos is certainly a top-10 NHLer.

But even if you didn't want to include Stamkos, there is no chance that Hertl is in the same stratosphere as Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Getzlaf, and Toews.



Good one.

Have we been kidding ourselves this whole time, that Thornton and Marleau are equivalent to those players?

Hasn't that been an issue for the Sharks? For a long time, they've been pretending that Thornton is just as good as the other top centers as the league, that Marleau is just as good as the #2s on the other teams in the league, that Boyle is just as good as those other teams' top defensemen, and that Nabakov and Niemi are just as good as the top goalies in the league.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Have we been kidding ourselves this whole time, that Thornton and Marleau are equivalent to those players?

Hasn't that been an issue for the Sharks? For a long time, they've been pretending that Thornton is just as good as the other top centers as the league, that Marleau is just as good as the #2s on the other teams in the league, that Boyle is just as good as those other teams' top defensemen, and that Nabakov and Niemi are just as good as the top goalies in the league.

There was a window where all your mock assumptions were true. I'd say the 09 - 10 and 10-11 Seasons

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

There was a window where all your mock assumptions were true. I'd say the 09 - 10 and 10-11 Seasons

They were slightly worse than the rest but still good enough to win with.

Now? Thornton, Vlasic, and Stalock probably aren't a good enough F/D/G trio to win with.

 

[WantonAbandon]

They were slightly worse than the rest but still good enough to win with.

Now? Thornton, Vlasic, and Stalock probably aren't a good enough F/D/G trio to win with.

Maybe, but it isn't just about the trio. The Stanley cup formula only works with the right supporting cast. The Preds have completed the Stanley cup formula and did so years ago. Unfortunately they have never had the right supporting cast.

The Sharks don't currently have the right supporting cast, but they are a lot closer than the Preds.