Post-Game Talk: Sharks defeat Canadiens 3-1

[LyricalLyricist]

Never mentioned Eller in my post... so I don't know why this is suddenly about Eller? I was replying to your opinion of MT's handling of DD.

No, I said there's a correlation. As in, it contributed to our losses. Him and his line has always been ineffective in every series and were part of the reasons why we lost. His high TOI only further hurt our chances.

Again, never mentioned Eller. But if you insist on talking about other players, then yes I'd rather MT not play DD more than Plekanec and Galchenyuk.

The reason Eller is brought up is that it shows the logic is flawed. Any player can play more. It's when they play more and don't deserve it that it's a problem.

Hell, Galchenyuk is -3, 0 points and we lost twice in 2 games when he plays with Max this year.

At a certain point it's not about the player, it's about the timing. Any player can have a hot streak and earn more minutes. MT just gives DD's top line minutes way too freely and that's the problem.

I don't care about the number of minutes he plays, I really don't. I care that he deserves them. Hell, the reverse is true, DD has a PPG or whatever when he plays 12-16 minutes. But...if he's playing like garbage, I would play him less.

People make it sound like there's a 'sweet spot', there isn't. It's about managing your bench correctly and MT is either stubborn or late to the party on certain decisions from time to time.

 

[G0bias]

The reason Eller is brought up is that it shows the logic is flawed. Any player can play more. It's when they play more and don't deserve it that it's a problem.

Hell, Galchenyuk is -3, 0 points and we lost twice in 2 games when he plays with Max this year.

At a certain point it's not about the player, it's about the timing. Any player can have a hot streak and earn more minutes. MT just gives DD's top line minutes way too freely and that's the problem.

I don't care about the number of minutes he plays, I really don't. I care that he deserves them. Hell, the reverse is true, DD has a PPG or whatever when he plays 12-16 minutes. But...if he's playing like garbage, I would play him less.

People make it sound like there's a 'sweet spot', there isn't. It's about managing your bench correctly and MT is either stubborn or late to the party on certain decisions from time to time.

DD is simply not a good enough player to rely on this much to win, even if he's collecting points.
It certainly is about the player. It's not just a matter of deserving it or not. If Weise or Byron is scoring a goal here and there, that doesn't mean its in your best interest to increase their minutes as much. There's a breaking point with depth players. Because in the end, he's still just that, a player with limitations.

DD getting 1st liner minutes, even if he's got points that game, changes the entire dynamic and effectiveness of our lines. Eventually the rest of the lineup suffers for it and the negative impact becomes too great for the positive impact of DD getting points, to overcome.

I believe someone even pulled up numbers a few days back showing Plekanec's line's GA increasing and GF decreasing when DD's line increased in TOI.

 

[Kenny Powders]

I said it in the GDT,

Burns is a majestic beast

 

[MaKi]

I said it in the GDT,

Burns is a majestic beast

He really is. With his hands and overall agility it's hard to believe he's 6'5" 230lbs.

 

[Rapala]

Fans are sensitive to disinterest when they see it on the ice.
This current slump has opened some eyes with regards to the character of this team.
It is precisely in these moments of adversity that a team's cracks become fissures.
A good healthy dose of losing brings everything back into focus.
A lousy 1-2 punch at C. No RW. A seriously challenged top 6.
A foot weary D who needs off the first pairing.
We obviously have some serious work to do to be legit.

 

[Tuggy]

For the love of God get Byron away from two of our best offensive players!

 

[Rapala]

I said it in the GDT,

Burns is a majestic beast

That is only his beard misleading y'all!
I can't undestand why that club doesn't have 20 wins yet?
They seem to be able to turn it on at will.
Either poor goaltending or a dog it strategy.
Hang with the pack conserve energy and peak in April?

 

[waffledave]

So yes, Desharnais getting top minutes isn't a problem. DD getting top minutes when he hasn't earned them is.


I'm sure we agree on that and we'll also agree that DD will rarely earn top minutes as well. People focus too much on the number "Oh no, DD played X minutes, we'll lose for sure." No, the problem really is "DD isn't making points and we're giving him more minutes" Promoting ANY player under the circumstance would be bad.

When MT put DD back with Max I called it a "gamble" because that's what it was. It didn't pay off.

How do you explain the correlation between team performance, DD's performance and icetime? It's not a small sample size, it's over 30 games.

Him getting more icetime, no matter what, is an issue. Whether he's "hot" or not. His production doesn't scale with more icetime. He does well when he doesn't play as much because he's used sparingly. When he plays 18 minutes, he's facing top line opposition and he SIMPLY CANNOT HANDLE IT. PERIOD. HE IS NOT ABLE TO KEEP UP VS ANYTHING ABOVE A 3rd LINE.

This is the reality of this player. The team suffers because when he's on the ice vs anyone over 200 lbs with half decent skill he will lose the puck, fall down, throw it to nowhere, get hit, give it away.

 

[Yoor]

Therrien's constant usage of 4th liners and grinders annoys me the most about his coaching. Guys like Byron, Weise and Mitchell shouldn't be in the Top 6. Give those chances to players with offensive upside like Hudon or Androghetto who was finally moved to the top 6.

I agree with this, too many times ii have seen 1st/2nd line players make great plays for a prime scoring chance to fall upon the stick of........Byron for example. more times than not these guys just don't have the hands to bury the chances, its got to be demoralizing to his line mates.

Why would Ghetto be a fit for the 4th line? Why is a player like Byron (has played well this year within his capacity) be playing on the 1st line over guys like Ghetto and Hudon, heck even Carr has better hands than Byron. I understand that these guys are rookies and all, but offensive minded players need to play in a position that suits their games. Same goes for 3rd and 4th line guys. Play guys at the position of strength.

Weise back on DD line, Carr on 4th with Mitchell and Flynn Ghetto on 1st line and Maybe try Hudon on the 2nd? sit Byron or switch up with Carr....meh I give up

 

[Smokey Thompson]

he SIMPLY CANNOT HANDLE IT. PERIOD. HE IS NOT ABLE TO KEEP UP VS ANYTHING ABOVE A 3rd LINE.

Quoted for truth. It really seems as though the only solution to the problem of DD playing 17-18 minutes a night is to get his the **** off this roster. I don't mind him as a 3rd liner, but the reality is that he'll never be a 3rd liner under Therrien.

 

[sampollock]

sad effort, this team needs a bag skate

 

[Yoor]

MT coaches the way he preached his systems philosophy: take da safe play. In his case, the lineup tinkerings are "da safe play" for him to make. If he puts Byron on the top line and fails "well he wasnt expected to flourish there, but with the injuries, I had to make do with what I had", but if he pans out MT gets to pull his pants up and be all smug like "see I knew Byron was a fit for the top 6".

I have said this before, MT is a gambler, he exhibits all the traits of a person who takes gambles on the decisions he makes. I don't see any other way to explain why we have waiver players on the top line and grinders in the top 6. Gamblers go on hot streaks and sometimes their gamble pays off but more times than not the house will win. The guy cant help himself, even if I'm sure he knows the stats regarding the win/lose ration with DD ice time...he will just keep going all in until he eventually goes broke...

 

[Brainiac]

Quoted for truth. It really seems as though the only solution to the problem of DD playing 17-18 minutes a night is to get his the **** off this roster. I don't mind him as a 3rd liner, but the reality is that he'll never be a 3rd liner under Therrien.

That's the problem and what we've been saying for years. DD is a good third liner, but an horrible top 6 player. Simply horrible. He doesn't have the stamina and the strength to play more than 12-13 min. a night against the other team's bottom 6.

We're repeating ourselves here, but it's a perfect case of the Peter principle in management.

I'm truly dumbfounded that no one in the Habs organization sees it. Maybe Ramsay had a little bit of input when he came in, but Therrien steadily went back to his old habits. And it's hurting us big time.

And again, that has nothing to do with injuries or with our record. It's just some basic stuff about bench and lines management that our coach seems to always f-up. I don't even care that we lost 5 out of the last 6. That's the way the coach reacts (or not) that is infuriating.

 

[Bouboumaster]

DD sucks. Therrien sucks.

Trade the first, can the second.

 

[LaP]

For the love of God get Byron away from two of our best offensive players!

This + 1000

 

[SirClintonPortis]

I have said this before, MT is a gambler, he exhibits all the traits of a person who takes gambles on the decisions he makes. I don't see any other way to explain why we have waiver players on the top line and grinders in the top 6. Gamblers go on hot streaks and sometimes their gamble pays off but more times than not the house will win. The guy cant help himself, even if I'm sure he knows the stats regarding the win/lose ration with DD ice time...he will just keep going all in until he eventually goes broke...

"Gambling" is actually more the evaluation of payouts given a certain probability. In the case of DD, he will produce less than half of the time, and mostly with single point games. Bad defensive teams like Carolina, Ottawa, Buffalo, Phoenix, Islanders are some of his multi-point game victims. The only better teams that have to really worry about him are the Bruins, Devils, and Kings.

What gambling is not is throwing **** at the wall and hoping it sticks, although most casino goers and addicts probably have that mindset.

 

[sheed36]

Lars Eller on pace for 30 pts, yet somehow on our 2nd line and on our powerplay unit.

Nothing's changed Since: the days of (Hossa ) We're missing an elite player on our top 6.

How can Eller be playing on the 2nd line when he's been playing with the 3rd line center in Galchenyuk for much of the season? Also he was likely on the PP last night because everyone else has been sucking very badly on it lately.

Have you even been watching the Habs at all this year or only the game last night?

 

[OldCraig71]

Most people here saw an uninspired bunch and complained about the line configurations and I will never defend Therrien ever. The real issue last night was a small team not being able to create time and space against a big physical team. We never really threatened the Sharks and I felt that it was mainly because we lack the kind of players that can create against those types of teams. I also feel like our two biggest leaders and I mean real leaders not the ones wearing a C for the camera are sitting home with injuries. If Brendan Gallagher was 6 feet 2 and played the way he plays now, he would be a top earner in this league, he is not scared to go to the areas of the game you need to go to on some nights in the schedule. We also need to call up the big mac and give him a try for a game or two and see if he can make Max Pac look like a real captain.

 

[BigHabs]

Please next game roll with:

Pacioretty Plekanec Andrighetto
Eller Galchenyuk Carr
Fleischmann Desharnais Weise
Byron Mitchell Flynn

Beaulieu Subban
Markov Petry
Tinordi Gilbert

Tinordi can't really do any worse IMO. Markov lessen the work load on him by pairing him with a smooth skater in Petry. Not a shot at Subban's skating, but he seems to have gone the strength way and has lost some speed from his first few years. Beaulieu for the top pairing and Petry to help Markovs lack of speed.

Condon in net.

Depending on where Kassian's fitness is. Im all for second chances. This guy could honestly give the muscle up on the top line that Plekanec and Pacioretty don't use often. Kassian is known for going to the net. Now it will be awhile but I would like to see him have another shot. especially when Gallagher comes back.

Gallagher
Kassian
Weise
Flynn/Smith-Pelly

Good RW if you ask me. If Kassian can regain his form.

 

[pepperMonkey]

Didn't watch the game so only have the box score to put the game into context...which is obviously flawed. But going with that, it seems Pleks/Patches line played against the opponents top line? Or did they just play badly enough to get scored on twice while they were on? Could their lack of TOI be because of their lack of offense (Assuming they weren't creating much offensively), and their defensive woes?
Galch's line just has a short leash (why?? grr) and they were on for a goal against, though I have no idea if that's their fault or not.
In any case, yes, DD should never be on longer than Pleks and Galch's line but it just seems as though they play more when the other two lines are struggling somehow. And although +/- is a crappy stat to rely on, the line did produce while not resulting in a goal against, compared to the other two lines.

Well, okay, that's what I see from the stats, which I know is bull. Need to watch to actually tell what happened (so please don't try to educate me on that), but does anything I said have any ring of truth? And yes, before anyone says otherwise (which I'm sure they would do anyhow), MT's asset management sucks large. I also believe DD is best used when he doesn't play more than 3rd line minutes. But those games where he has more than his share of minutes...it just seems as if the other lines are having a bad game. Hence the stat where we lose more when DD plays more.

 

[Rapala]

From Pepper Monkey

"I also believe DD is best used when he doesn't play"

smile

 

[pepperMonkey]

From Pepper Monkey

"I also believe DD is best used when he doesn't play"

smile

Well, you are welcome to take things out of context and read what you want and not what is actually written. Your prerogative.

 

[Rapala]

Well, you are welcome to take things out of context and read what you want and not what is actually written. Your prerogative.

You know I'm totally kidding right?
I couldn't help myself particularly as you have always done a fair job defending DD.

 

[pepperMonkey]

You know I'm totally kidding right?
I couldn't help myself particularly as you have always done a fair job defending DD.

Lol, I wasn't really serious either.

I suppose I do end up defending DD quite a bit. Guess I just happen to like underdogs. I did the same for Ribs and Breezy in their time as well. Problem stems from the fact that I can never hate a player unless he literally doesn't care. Oh well.

 

[blarneylad]

With the Sharks getting outplayed by the Canadiens for a good portion of the first period, Goodrow, a few seconds into his fifth shift, crushed Montreal star defenseman P.K. Subban into the boards with 3:29 left to the right of goalie Habs goalie Dustin Tokarski.

Subban went down in a heap, and Goodrow was chased down by former Shark Torrey Mitchell to the delight of the Bell Centre crowd...

“Goody did a good job jumping in there,” Sharks defenseman Justin Braun said. “Big hit, good fight. That’s what we want from guys.

“It’s good to see that from him. Going to get the hit on Subban, that was bigger than the fight. Going to get licks on their D, that’s good to see on my end because I know I’m going to feel them.”

Perspective is everything.

I thought it was bush league that the NHL allows fringe no-name AhLers to come in and do that to star players.

But the Sharks believe it was a good hit.

http://blogs.mercurynews....bban-fight-with-mitchell/