GDT: Sharks @ Blues 11/9/18

[one2gamble]

That is quite a hot take. When was the last time you saw a coach dismissed over the mishandling of the ice time of a middling player? I think the answer is "never".

I mean he's mismanaged the rest of the roster as well....

 

[Levie]

Doubt it happens, but if Q coached the sharks would his system benefit the sharks especially EK65? Curious to know your guys' opinion.

Usually when coaches take over mid season they don't drastically change the system.

 

[Lebanezer]

The Erik Karlsson trade is intended to be a franchise altering trade. Doug cannot allow the situation to deteriorate to the level that might cause Karlsson to walk at the end of the year due to the team’s poor performance. If Deboer cannot get things turned around in the next few weeks it almost forces Doug’s hand in making a coaching change. Deboer put so much pressure on himself and the team when he told them all they needed to step up right after the Karlsson trade happened. I’m not sure if Deboer is panicking or not, but the arbitrary nature of his coaching right now in terms of pairings and lines, makes me think that he is. He’s clearly outside his comfort zone now, and isn’t handling it well. If he cannot rediscover a position of power as coach and get the team to commit, to play better defense etc. then he has to be fired. It’s not just about this season, it’s about the future of the franchise.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Yes, I watched that series. The key difference in that series was that San Jose’s power play could not score when the team needed it. In game 2, the Sharks had 6 power plays. They scored 0 goals and allowed 2 goals on those 6 power plays. A lot of blame for that series is on Steve Spott’s ****ty PP, which is in turn on DeBoer. Perhaps we win the series if Couture and Thorntonhealthy, but at any rate, McClellan has defeated DeBoer in a playoff series, and he was not using a very strong team when he did it.

You wanna talk Trumpian? Take a look in the mirror. The logic behind all of your arguments is almost always just personal attacks. I’ve never seen you actually make a real, solid argument as to why you feel a certain way. I’ve just seen you make baseless, inaccurate claims (like suggesting that Melker Karlsson has not declined every season since 2014-2015, but rather that the team around him has improved), and then use emoticons and personal attacks when somebody disagrees with you.

"Perhaps we win"? dude that is just ridiculous to try and minimize the effects of those two catastrophic injuries. All the interviews with Couture post playoff talking about that injury made it clear he was a shadow of his normal self in the series against Edmonton. This is a ridiculous argument. Are you afraid you'll have to take down your Todd McLellan fan club photo or something?

Ah... now that just expands your Trumpian behavior .. You consider it a personal attack when someone call you out on your mischaracterizations and lies that you created to support your assertion. You don't do this often mind you. You do tons of great research based commenting that I often agree with. In fact I've found myself agreeing a ton of your posts over the last couple months but your hang up on the vegas thing is really old and I'm betting no one agrees with you. They weren't some 20 point "expansion team" that couldn't complete a pass. They were a juggernaut last season that rolled thru the Pacific with ease and most of the teams in the NHL. FFS, they finished with the 5th best record in the league and lost in the SCF and they won GM and coach of the year. So please, just stop dude.

As far as my opinions and arguments... they come from 4 decades playing and watching the sport and it's evolution.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I wasn’t able to watch this game last night.
Yes, I watched it this morning. After reading the comments here (why do I do such things?) I thought we did horribly.
We should have scored some goals. Timo had a few incredible chances that just didn’t go in. Burns as well.
This isn’t because the team sucks or doesn’t have the drive. It’s not because the coaches and GM are terrible.
Games like this happen. We matched them for shots. People here will say we took lousy shots but guess what? They took lousy shots too. Their better shots went in, ours didn’t. That does suck but we only lost one game.

Get back home and get the practice in and play consistently.

Go Sharks!!

Your positivity is good to have but honestly there is a real reason to get concerned.

The concern is not about this loss. Or even the last. It is more about the system. We have consistently outshot other teams and still lost because of the style of our play. Other teams keep getting odd-man rushes and breakaways against us because of how our offense depends way too much on point shots only which lead to those opportunities.

Then there is the lineup issues. Poor utilization of players like Ryan both by not icing them enough or healthy scratching them. Mixing and matching forward lines and D pairings the moment we fall behind in games.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The Erik Karlsson trade is intended to be a franchise altering trade. Doug cannot allow the situation to deteriorate to the level that might cause Karlsson to walk at the end of the year due to the team’s poor performance. If Deboer cannot get things turned around in the next few weeks it almost forces Doug’s hand in making a coaching change. Deboer put so much pressure on himself and the team when he told them all they needed to step up right after the Karlsson trade happened. I’m not sure if Deboer is panicking or not, but the arbitrary nature of his coaching right now in terms of pairings and lines, makes me think that he is. He’s clearly outside his comfort zone now, and isn’t handling it well. If he cannot rediscover a position of power as coach and get the team to commit, to play better defense etc. then he has to be fired. It’s not just about this season, it’s about the future of the franchise.

Very well put.

The package that was traded for EK65 is an all-in for this year but that is not all it is. There is a lot more on the line than just going deep in the playoffs this year.

Its hard to take much positivity from how PDB has reacted to our recent slump. From roster decisions in game, to healthy scratching player or even his reaction in the interview yesterday. If EK65 walks because of PDB, we will be set back about 2-3 years.

 

[WTFetus]

The Erik Karlsson trade is intended to be a franchise altering trade. Doug cannot allow the situation to deteriorate to the level that might cause Karlsson to walk at the end of the year due to the team’s poor performance. If Deboer cannot get things turned around in the next few weeks it almost forces Doug’s hand in making a coaching change. Deboer put so much pressure on himself and the team when he told them all they needed to step up right after the Karlsson trade happened. I’m not sure if Deboer is panicking or not, but the arbitrary nature of his coaching right now in terms of pairings and lines, makes me think that he is. He’s clearly outside his comfort zone now, and isn’t handling it well. If he cannot rediscover a position of power as coach and get the team to commit, to play better defense etc. then he has to be fired. It’s not just about this season, it’s about the future of the franchise.

On the radio yesterday, Hedican implied that it looked like the players were being coached to only make the perfect play and it was hindering their creativity and instincts. When he realized he was getting into coaching/system critiques, he backtracked and started talking about "structured creativity".

 

[NWSharkie]

On the radio yesterday, Hedican implied that it looked like the players were being coached to only make the perfect play and it was hindering their creativity and instincts. When he realized he was getting into coaching/system critiques, he backtracked and started talking about "structured creativity".

Really, though, what is the "perfect play" they're looking for? I hope it's not a saucer pass D-to-D at the opposing blue line like the one Heed had to scramble back to clean up after. But if a guy who's had nothing but practice time and nobody but the coaches in his ears for as long as Heed has is making bonehead plays like that, what exactly are these guys being told to do?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

"Perhaps we win"? dude that is just ridiculous to try and minimize the effects of those two catastrophic injuries. All the interviews with Couture post playoff talking about that injury made it clear he was a shadow of his normal self in the series against Edmonton. This is a ridiculous argument. Are you afraid you'll have to take down your Todd McLellan fan club photo or something?

Ah... now that just expands your Trumpian behavior .. You consider it a personal attack when someone call you out on your mischaracterizations and lies that you created to support your assertion. You don't do this often mind you. You do tons of great research based commenting that I often agree with. In fact I've found myself agreeing a ton of your posts over the last couple months but your hang up on the vegas thing is really old and I'm betting no one agrees with you. They weren't some 20 point "expansion team" that couldn't complete a pass. They were a juggernaut last season that rolled thru the Pacific with ease and most of the teams in the NHL. FFS, they finished with the 5th best record in the league and lost in the SCF and they won GM and coach of the year. So please, just stop dude.

As far as my opinions and arguments... they come from 4 decades playing and watching the sport and it's evolution.

They weren’t some 20 point expansion team, but they also were a below average Stanley Cup Finals team that got destroyed in the Cup Finals, and they would have been destroyed by the 2016 Sharks.

I don’t really care if you watched the sport for 4 decades, because you clearly didn’t watch the Sharks from 2015-2016 through 2017-2018 if you genuinely think that the forwards improved over that time frame, or that Melker Karlsson did not even slightly regress.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

They weren’t some 20 point expansion team, but they also were a below average Stanley Cup Finals team that got destroyed in the Cup Finals, and they would have been destroyed by the 2016 Sharks.

I don’t really care if you watched the sport for 4 decades, because you clearly didn’t watch the Sharks from 2015-2016 through 2017-2018 if you genuinely think that the forwards improved over that time frame, or that Melker Karlsson did not even slightly regress.

Wait, how are you justifying that Vegas was a below average finals team? They finished top 5 in the league. I've seen a hell of lot worse finals teams actually win the cup. Your assertion has no merit and no facts to support it. The 2016 Sharks TEAM might have won against Vegas last season but that would have been more to do with Burns & Jones being at the top of their games and having mostly healthy forwards. It's entirely possible that they would have got skated around similar to what the Pens did. All 3 rounds the Sharks won that year they were able to get to the goalie and the teams weren't faster on average than the Sharks. They couldn't even get out of their zone most of the time against the Pens. Similar to what Vegas did last year.

You keep trying to go back and make the specific seasons thing what you need it to be to support your view. Thats equivalent to lying. I restated repeatedly that my forward group comparison was primarily between 2015-2016 and this year. But as far as last season, if Jumbo had stayed healthy, they probably would have been better talent wise. Meier played a lot on the 3rd line last year and he was better than anyone playing 3rd line in 2015-2016. 2016-2017 is the only season where you can make a good argument that the forward group dipped from the SCF year. I would still take this seasons forward over any of those.

Melker Karlsson
2014-2015 24p in 53g with significant time on Jumbos wing.
2015-2016 19p in 65g
2016-2017 22p in 67g
2017-2018 19p in 71g

Looks like basically the same dude each season. Probably won't get those point totals this season due to better options because... wait for it... the better roster this year.

 

[DG93]

Wait, how are you justifying that Vegas was a below average finals team? They finished top 5 in the league. I've seen a hell of lot worse finals teams actually win the cup. Your assertion has no merit and no facts to support it. The 2016 Sharks TEAM might have won against Vegas last season but that would have been more to do with Burns & Jones being at the top of their games and having mostly healthy forwards. It's entirely possible that they would have got skated around similar to what the Pens did. All 3 rounds the Sharks won that year they were able to get to the goalie and the teams weren't faster on average than the Sharks. They couldn't even get out of their zone most of the time against the Pens. Similar to what Vegas did last year.

You keep trying to go back and make the specific seasons thing what you need it to be to support your view. Thats equivalent to lying. I restated repeatedly that my forward group comparison was primarily between 2015-2016 and this year. But as far as last season, if Jumbo had stayed healthy, they probably would have been better talent wise. Meier played a lot on the 3rd line last year and he was better than anyone playing 3rd line in 2015-2016. 2016-2017 is the only season where you can make a good argument that the forward group dipped from the SCF year. I would still take this seasons forward over any of those.

Melker Karlsson
2014-2015 24p in 53g with significant time on Jumbos wing.
2015-2016 19p in 65g
2016-2017 22p in 67g
2017-2018 19p in 71g

Looks like basically the same dude each season. Probably won't get those point totals this season due to better options because... wait for it... the better roster this year.

He might be a 20pt a season player, but his possession stats are in the toilet.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Wait, how are you justifying that Vegas was a below average finals team? They finished top 5 in the league. I've seen a hell of lot worse finals teams actually win the cup. Your assertion has no merit and no facts to support it. The 2016 Sharks TEAM might have won against Vegas last season but that would have been more to do with Burns & Jones being at the top of their games and having mostly healthy forwards. It's entirely possible that they would have got skated around similar to what the Pens did. All 3 rounds the Sharks won that year they were able to get to the goalie and the teams weren't faster on average than the Sharks. They couldn't even get out of their zone most of the time against the Pens. Similar to what Vegas did last year.

You keep trying to go back and make the specific seasons thing what you need it to be to support your view. Thats equivalent to lying. I restated repeatedly that my forward group comparison was primarily between 2015-2016 and this year. But as far as last season, if Jumbo had stayed healthy, they probably would have been better talent wise. Meier played a lot on the 3rd line last year and he was better than anyone playing 3rd line in 2015-2016. 2016-2017 is the only season where you can make a good argument that the forward group dipped from the SCF year. I would still take this seasons forward over any of those.

Melker Karlsson
2014-2015 24p in 53g with significant time on Jumbos wing.
2015-2016 19p in 65g
2016-2017 22p in 67g
2017-2018 19p in 71g

Looks like basically the same dude each season. Probably won't get those point totals this season due to better options because... wait for it... the better roster this year.

I don't understand what you mean by the better roster impacting his point totals negatively? Wouldn't a better roster mean he should be able to produce at the same, if not better rate?

Also, I have been a staunch and vocal supporter of the fact that Melker had good trade value purely on the basis of those points. This year, not only has his point total fallen off but he has drawn 0 penalites but taken 5. His possession stats are abysmal. He has been less physical this year as well. All Melker is doing right now is taking spots from other younger players on our roster because of whatever reason(s) PDB has.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Wait, how are you justifying that Vegas was a below average finals team? They finished top 5 in the league. I've seen a hell of lot worse finals teams actually win the cup. Your assertion has no merit and no facts to support it. The 2016 Sharks TEAM might have won against Vegas last season but that would have been more to do with Burns & Jones being at the top of their games and having mostly healthy forwards. It's entirely possible that they would have got skated around similar to what the Pens did. All 3 rounds the Sharks won that year they were able to get to the goalie and the teams weren't faster on average than the Sharks. They couldn't even get out of their zone most of the time against the Pens. Similar to what Vegas did last year.

You keep trying to go back and make the specific seasons thing what you need it to be to support your view. Thats equivalent to lying. I restated repeatedly that my forward group comparison was primarily between 2015-2016 and this year. But as far as last season, if Jumbo had stayed healthy, they probably would have been better talent wise. Meier played a lot on the 3rd line last year and he was better than anyone playing 3rd line in 2015-2016. 2016-2017 is the only season where you can make a good argument that the forward group dipped from the SCF year. I would still take this seasons forward over any of those.

Melker Karlsson
2014-2015 24p in 53g with significant time on Jumbos wing.
2015-2016 19p in 65g
2016-2017 22p in 67g
2017-2018 19p in 71g

Looks like basically the same dude each season. Probably won't get those point totals this season due to better options because... wait for it... the better roster this year.

You keep calling me a liar and saying I have "Trumpian behavior" because you have absolutely no sort of information to back your opinion. The original post that you responded to WAS season-to-season specific:

It is kind of weird how Melker has declined every single season he has been in the NHL. This one is no different; he was our worst player last year, but he is worse this year than he was last year.

So, I have no clue where you think I am "Lying", or exhibiting "Trumpian behavior". Probably because it doesn't exist, and you can only use personal attacks to fit your incoherent arguments based on nothing. You want a personal attack? Here's one: Despite your 40 years of playing and watching the game, you have absolutely no ability to properly analyze what is happening; probably because your view of everything is so Shark-centric that nothing bad can possibly be happening in Sharks land. Your view of reality is so ridiculously skewed by your bias that you can't look at anything objectively. This leads you to draw conclusions as ridiculous as "Melker Karlsson did not regress on a season to season basis since arriving, the forwards around him got better." You supposedly have 40 years of watching and playing the game and you see ridiculous things like Melker Karlsson not declining, but rather the team around him getting so much better.

I don't understand what you mean by the better roster impacting his point totals negatively? Wouldn't a better roster mean he should be able to produce at the same, if not better rate?

Also, I have been a staunch and vocal supporter of the fact that Melker had good trade value purely on the basis of those points. This year, not only has his point total fallen off but he has drawn 0 penalites but taken 5. His possession stats are abysmal. He has been less physical this year as well. All Melker is doing right now is taking spots from other younger players on our roster because of whatever reason(s) PDB has.

They are probably trying to trade him. The broadcast has not once mentioned his slump of 0 goals in his last 45 games and 3 goals in his last 76 games. (both including playoffs) That is something they usually mention when it comes to players like Melker who historically score a decent amount of goals, but they have been completely silent about it. In fact, I can't recall a single occurrence where the broadcast has criticized him within the last 45 games. Meanwhile, they decide to shit all over Erik Karlsson every time he is on the ice with Vlasic and Vlasic makes a mistake.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I don't understand what you mean by the better roster impacting his point totals negatively? Wouldn't a better roster mean he should be able to produce at the same, if not better rate?

Also, I have been a staunch and vocal supporter of the fact that Melker had good trade value purely on the basis of those points. This year, not only has his point total fallen off but he has drawn 0 penalites but taken 5. His possession stats are abysmal. He has been less physical this year as well. All Melker is doing right now is taking spots from other younger players on our roster because of whatever reason(s) PDB has.

He is still a shit player and on some level I think PDB see's that. Like I said it's the Rudy syndrome. Using his effort level to either inspire or shame better players into playing harder. Point being that he should see less ice time and primarily only on the 4th line.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

You keep calling me a liar and saying I have "Trumpian behavior" because you have absolutely no sort of information to back your opinion. The original post that you responded to WAS season-to-season specific:

So, I have no clue where you think I am "Lying", or exhibiting "Trumpian behavior". Probably because it doesn't exist, and you can only use personal attacks to fit your incoherent arguments based on nothing. You want a personal attack? Here's one: Despite your 40 years of playing and watching the game, you have absolutely no ability to properly analyze what is happening; probably because your view of everything is so Shark-centric that nothing bad can possibly be happening in Sharks land. Your view of reality is so ridiculously skewed by your bias that you can't look at anything objectively.

Because you are trying to claim my calling bullshit on your intentional dishonest mischaracterization of vegas as a "Personal attack". Saying you are wrong isn't personal attack. Save the Melker crap for the other thread...It just looks like you're trying to muddy the waters with more BS.