Post-Game Talk: Sharks 5 Penguins 3|Sid -5|The Hills Are Alive With the Sound of Indifference

[AquaticBirdman]

You can't even criticize Sid for a bad game, the Canadians on here will have a ***** fit.

When was the last time Sid has scored a goal. Ahh yes, against MTL's backup and the one before that against Buffalo (2 stanley cup contenders). Where is the passion & the creativity he had first couple of years. The only thing i see him doing these days is circling on the perimeter and pass the puck to the point for the D-men to shoot. I put the biggest blame on Bylsma for this, our toolbag of a coach doesn't believe in net front presence. That's why our players are always kept to the outside in the Ozone.

I'm Canadian, and I think Sid played like absolute horse $h!t.

 

[Shady Machine]

No offense to Nisky, but I'd have him with Despres on the second PP. Maatta belongs on the top PP. He's the team's most offensively adept defenseman right now.

Eh Nisky has a great one timer and has played really well. I'd keep him on the top PP and let Maatta run the second one for now. We don't need more QB's on the 1st one. That's why Nisky is more effective than Letang IMO. But I could go either way there.

 

[Terrapin]

I always kind of gave half an eyeroll to the "Everything changed after that Islanders game" stance. But... I mean... looking back at it, it does seem to be some sort of tipping point when it comes to the way this team handles itself. Coincidence or not.

I've been saying it for a few years, and it's not a coincidence. Mario always hated a physical game, so he took the opportunity to publically announce his morally superior vision of the game. He got called out as a hypocrite though, since at that point we lead the league in fighting majors, and also employed Matt Cooke (we also were the best team in the league). So rather than Mario appearing to be full of ****, he made a conscious decision to systematically remove toughness from the team. The agitators were shown the door, the goons were gone, and Cooke was neutered. Guys like Rupp, Asham, Talbot, Roberts, Ruutu, Godard, etc were replaced with guys like Richard Park, Cal O'Reilly, Zac Boychuk, Chris Connor, Brandon Sutter, etc, etc. The team has gotten softer and softer the past few years, but much to Mario's likely surprise, other teams didn't follow suit. Instead, they exploit the Pens softness. It's a shame.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm glad the majority of you are finally catching on to pixiesfanyo.

Talk about ignorant stat watching.

Despres made the correct play on the PP. It was not his fault Marleau scored.

pixiesfanyo blames Despres.

Maatta scored a goal doing the exact same thing (coming down the backside on the PP).

He scores.

pixiesfanyo does not say what a bad decision it was.

Further, go back and watch that game: Maatta was below the circles on every ****ing shift. If you want to talk about someone pinching, talk about Maatta.

Despres was great last night.

Are you saying he should ask himself "Where is my mind?" (J/K Pixie, sort of)

Despres was making smart reads all night and battling his ass off. If you have to point at him doing a typical play to find fault with him last night, you obviously have a bone to pick. Despres even saved a sure goal on his sliding block with an empty net behind him. Aside from scoring, the guy could have not played much better, not that it will matter to DB.

Now Crosby, he played like garbage last night and made a crap read on that missed pass to Despres, no doubt. Let's just make sure we point the fingers where the pointing belongs here.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I've been saying it for a few years, and it's not a coincidence. Mario always hated a physical game, so he took the opportunity to publically announce his morally superior vision of the game. He got called out as a hypocrite though, since at that point we lead the league in fighting majors, and also employed Matt Cooke (we also were the best team in the league). So rather than Mario appearing to be full of ****, he made a conscious decision to systematically remove toughness from the team. The agitators were shown the door, the goons were gone, and Cooke was neutered. Guys like Rupp, Asham, Talbot, Roberts, Ruutu, Godard, etc were replaced with guys like Richard Park, Cal O'Reilly, Zac Boychuk, Chris Connor, Brandon Sutter, etc, etc. The team has gotten softer and softer the past few years, but much to Mario's likely surprise, other teams didn't follow suit. Instead, they exploit the Pens softness. It's a shame.

I have to agree with your point. I had this fear since the beginning of the season when I looked at our roster. There isn't any team toughness. Glass? Engelland? Ok, who else?
Last night the tougher team when down by two flexed their muscle. And the Pens wilted under the pressure. This may be one of the weakest Pens teams that I have ever watched and I go back to before Mario. Very, very sad state of affairs.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If everyone goes back and re-watches the game, Maatta took the most risks of any dman last night.

<snip>

How anyone can look at last night's game and say Maatta is safe with the puck and Despres is risky is beyond me. Despres made the safe, simple play for a vast majority of his plays.

The only possible explanation I can think of is Maatta had 2 goals, which is results-oriented thinking.

Haha... yeah. I felt like Olli was playing below the dots 75% of his shifts, last night. I mean... no big deal -- it generally worked out great for him and I'm glad that he's starting to engage more, offensively and learn how to jump in and contribute. Even if it means taking chances. Because that's how you score goals -- taking chances.

But I agree that it's a little disingenuous to say that Maatta played a safe game and Despres played it loosy-goosy. As you said... I thought it was the exact opposite. Particularly after Bortuzzo went down. Despres was generally more concerned about his goaltenders blue paint and who was in it last night (and handing out copious kidney-shots to the offending parties) than anything else. I loved seeing that from him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I've been saying it for a few years, and it's not a coincidence. Mario always hated a physical game, so he took the opportunity to publically announce his morally superior vision of the game. He got called out as a hypocrite though, since at that point we lead the league in fighting majors, and also employed Matt Cooke (we also were the best team in the league). So rather than Mario appearing to be full of ****, he made a conscious decision to systematically remove toughness from the team. The agitators were shown the door, the goons were gone, and Cooke was neutered. Guys like Rupp, Asham, Talbot, Roberts, Ruutu, Godard, etc were replaced with guys like Richard Park, Cal O'Reilly, Zac Boychuk, Chris Connor, Brandon Sutter, etc, etc. The team has gotten softer and softer the past few years, but much to Mario's likely surprise, other teams didn't follow suit. Instead, they exploit the Pens softness. It's a shame.

To be perfectly clear... I don't want goons. Goons won't help. Not these days.

But I want the (majority) of the guys (Park, Conner, etc.) you listed later in your post even less. I'd way rather dress PL3 every game instead of friggin' Adams and Conner, or whoever the try-hard midget du jour is that particular season.

There is a happy medium to be found and this team needs to find it fast.

 

[Gallatin]

I'M NOT TURNING A BLIND EYE.

Jesus, I said he was horrible, I just don't think it speaks to some great big deal beyond that. Night-in and night-out he's our best player and the least of our concerns. If it happens again tonight, or repeatedly over the rest of the season, then it's a concern. For now, it was just LITERALLY the worst game of his career. It happens.

IC we have been seeing a lot of indifferent hockey from Sid this year. More in one season than all his other seasons combined. It's become very alarming.

He no longer believes in his coach IMO.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Why Despres is being called out for last night is beyond me. I can pick out at least a dozen guys on the roster (of a MUCH higher pay grade no less) who deserve a hell of a lot more flack than he does.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Haha... yeah. I felt like Olli was playing below the dots 75% of his shifts, last night. I mean... no big deal -- it generally worked out great for him and I'm glad that he's starting to engage more, offensively and learn how to jump in and contribute. Even if it means taking chances. Because that's how you score goals -- taking chances.

But I agree that it's a little disingenuous to say that Maatta played a safe game and Despres played it loosy-goosy. As you said... I thought it was the exact opposite. Particularly after Bortuzzo went down. Despres was generally more concerned about his goaltenders blue paint and who was in it last night (and handing out copious kidney-shots to the offending parties) than anything else. I loved seeing that from him.

I don't think Despres came below the circles all night, unless I'm forgetting an instance where he did.

He was getting shots on net, defending well, passing well, policing the front of the net, etc.

This is exactly what he needs to do to stay in the lineup (with another coach, obviously).

 

[AquaticBirdman]

This thread needs a bit of comedy relief:

Recchi's double chin says: "HEEEELLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

 

[Gallatin]

Sid leading the league in points by 13 and captaining the Canadian Olympic team to a gold medal = rough season for him

He's an absolutely amazing player. That he could do that when he's not giving 100% very often is astounding. But this is the first season the spark that defines him is missing IMO.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Cole, you remember when we used to push first, when guys like Ruutu would troll and Malone would punish in an absolutely predatory and proactive manner, such that the other team was busy chasing the Pens 'perpetrators' and thus spending less time targeting guys like Sid and Geno. Those were the days. That Islanders game was the turning point. We'd been losing our 'bully' abilities before that, but that was the game the bully was punched in the mouth and not only never recovered but turned into the biggest cry baby in the room.

Well this post sums it up beautifully. If anyone thinks this team has either the physical or mental toughness to win 4 playoff series, you are simply kidding yourself.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah... I don't know how fair it is to compare other young defenseman, on this team or otherwise, to Olli Maatta. He's pretty obviously exceptional. The guy got to a level in less than one full season that typically takes even the most talented and promising young defensmen years to get to. It's worth mentioning that even he isn't bulletproof, though. I've seen plenty of young guys (even defensemen) come flying out of the gates like Olli... only to level off for a few years before they get back to that upper echelon, again. If they do.

Despres is such a rare blend of talent and size. I do worry about his further development under this team, though. Because he does have kinks to work out, for sure. For most teams... it would be an exciting opportunity. For this team, it seems like a burden.

Absolutely. Maatta has had some egregious errors, getting walked a few times, etc throughout the season. The difference between him and Despres or other young dmen is two-fold, 1.) he almost always wins the puck back or makes up for it later on and 2.) for whatever reason (work ethic in practice, attitude, Bylsma preferring blondes, etc) he is given a longer leeway than nearly every other prospect. They let him work through the mistakes which gave him greater confidence.

Watching Despres, you can see some of the fear of making mistakes in his game, the hesitation at times, etc. Some of that may be on him because he lacks the poise of Maatta but it's obvious that some of that is a reaction to how he's being handled. I hope he works through it because he can be a hell of a dman.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Wow... maybe lay off the mayonnaise-injected whole hams, Recchi.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Well this post sums it up beautifully. If anyone thinks this team has either the physical or mental toughness to win 4 playoff series, you are simply kidding yourself.

I think we have what it takes physically. We aren't exactly a team chalk full of smurfs and muffins. It's rather the MENTAL aspect that really, really, concerns me.

 

[WVP]

This team needs a couple guys like Ruutu, cooke, Roberts, Malone, Talbot, Guerin..... They need warriors.

My enduring memory of the playoffs each of the last two seasons has been Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, Fleury acting like little *****es.

That is the PROBLEM. PERIOD. It's not coaching. It's not talent. It's attitude.

I'm starting to think its a lack of leadership from Sid down.

Agree with this, not sure about Crosby though.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Wow... maybe lay off the mayonnaise-injected whole hams, Recchi.

Kinda looks like Gandolph shaking hands with the fat hobbit.

 

[Shady Machine]

thanks for quoting this post, I missed it the first time around.

If everyone goes back and re-watches the game, Maatta took the most risks of any dman last night.

I'm not saying he was bad or dumb or anything like that, but he pinched on EVERY offensive zone trip. Including in the 3rd where it lead to a 2-on-1 against (I can't remember if it was tied or if we were up 3-2).

How anyone can look at last night's game and say Maatta is safe with the puck and Despres is risky is beyond me. Despres made the safe, simple play for a vast majority of his plays.

The only possible explanation I can think of is Maatta had 2 goals, which is results-oriented thinking.

That's a great point as well. He has earned the coaches trust enough to be given the green light to pinch like crazy. Last night he was excellent, but he was maybe a tad too aggressive here and there. Without Letang in the lineup, I don't mind Maatta getting aggressive like that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Watching Despres, you can see some of the fear of making mistakes in his game, the hesitation at times, etc. Some of that may be on him because he lacks the poise of Maatta but it's obvious that some of that is a reaction to how he's being handled. I hope he works through it because he can be a hell of a dman.

I don't think Despres came below the circles all night, unless I'm forgetting an instance where he did.

He was getting shots on net, defending well, passing well, policing the front of the net, etc.

This is exactly what he needs to do to stay in the lineup (with another coach, obviously).

Agreed on both.

Like I said... most teams would be thrilled to have a guy like Despres in their pipeline and relish the opportunity to work through some of his more raw spots. But this team seems dead-set on finding fault... so long as it's a guy like Despres and not a vetpet, of course. It's like they just don't want to bother having to, you know... do their jobs.

At least he wasn't shuffled off for some fossil at the deadline. Hopefully it portends better things for him, soon.

 

[Shady Machine]

Are you saying he should ask himself "Where is my mind?" (J/K Pixie, sort of)

Despres was making smart reads all night and battling his ass off. If you have to point at him doing a typical play to find fault with him last night, you obviously have a bone to pick. Despres even saved a sure goal on his sliding block with an empty net behind him. Aside from scoring, the guy could have not played much better, not that it will matter to DB.

Now Crosby, he played like garbage last night and made a crap read on that missed pass to Despres, no doubt. Let's just make sure we point the fingers where the pointing belongs here.

Good call on the goal save. The San Jose guys made a specific point to call out how great of a play it was. Not sure if Steiggy mentioned it. Other than Brent Hedican's weird love of Orpik, the San Jose guys were great.

 

[IcedCapp]

Good call on the goal save. The San Jose guys made a specific point to call out how great of a play it was. Not sure if Steiggy mentioned it. Other than Brent Hedican's weird love of Orpik, the San Jose guys were great.

THE GOAL SAVE!!!

If Orpik or Scuderi make that play, the Penguins broadcast team and twitter account are plastering it like missing cat posters everywhere. Despres makes it and no one mentions it.

I'm not one for conspiracies, but...

 

[Shady Machine]

He's an absolutely amazing player. That he could do that when he's not giving 100% very often is astounding. But this is the first season the spark that defines him is missing IMO.

My comment wasn't meant to say anything about Sid last night or even that he has been stellar this season. Rather it was just a comment showing how ridiculously good Sid is if all of that is true AND he's not having a great year.

By the way, I do find it interesting how good Sid was defensively in the Olympics vs his recent play for the Pens. Sid was a monster defensively in the Olympics. Obviously different circumstances but the way he competed in that system vs ours is interesting to note.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Good call on the goal save. The San Jose guys made a specific point to call out how great of a play it was. Not sure if Steiggy mentioned it. Other than Brent Hedican's weird love of Orpik, the San Jose guys were great.

Bibs said something about Despres "maybe getting a piece of that" right after the play. Steigerwald finally recognized it after the third replay. And even then didn't really mention it as the great effort that it was.

They were both probably too wrapped up in what a PROFESSIONAL AND EXEMPLARY JOB that TANNER GLASS was doing on the bench TAPING UP HIS BLADE -- WOW WHAT A HERO. TANNER GLASS!

THE GOAL SAVE!!!

If Orpik or Scuderi make that play, the Penguins broadcast team and twitter account are plastering it like missing cat posters everywhere. Despres makes it and no one mentions it.

I'm not one for conspiracies, but...

Uh... no. No conspiracy at all. They've been marching to the beat that the team lays down for years now. Whether it's consciously to unconsciously we'll probably never know.

 

[Wes C Addle]

+ I thought Scuderi had a decent game. He looked to be a little more engaged, at least more so than normal. Hopefully he's rounding back into form a bit.