Post-Game Talk: Sharks 5 Penguins 3|Sid -5|The Hills Are Alive With the Sound of Indifference

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

No, I like it a lot -- one of my favorite tracks on one of my favorite albums. But there comes a time when I want something else running through my brain, especially when I'm trying to stay awake.

Understandable. Not exactly a high energy song.

No, the Spoon song

I could deal with that, too.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I will preface this by saying I only watched the first two periods last night. The combination of being very tired, having to sit through another period of Tweedle-Steigerwald and Tweedle-Errey and being very upset with all the stupid line changes in the second period did me in.

Last night was a microcosm of what's wrong with this team, and what's been wrong with this team since '09. For one of the few times in memory, I actually agreed with Steigerwald when he said the first period might have been our best of the season. They not only were flying out there, but they looked positionally sound, players looked like they were in positions to succeed, the defense pairings were awesome, everything was clicking. I loved what I was seeing.

Then, for whatever reason that only Dan Bylsma knows, we started changing everything up. Neal playing with Kunitz and Crosby for a few shifts. Brandon Sutter centering Evgeni Malkin. All kinds of craziness. And the blueline pairings were now also out of whack, though that was because Bortuzzo was out (what happened to him, by the way? Is he hurt?). I understand the need for changes on the blueline when someone goes down (of course, Disco Dan, that also could be alleviated by dressing Deryk Engelland as a fourth-line winger instead of that useless pile of nothing called Taylor Pyatt), but it just trickled onto the forwards and there really is no basis for any of it. Usually, whenever we come out of a PK or a PP Disco starts his usual tinkering. This time, it seemed to last longer...as if he wasn't happy with the first period. What? Even an idiot like Paul Steigerwald could see we were playing damn good hockey.

Anyway, a few more things:

- I feel bad for Zatkoff. Made several quality saves throughout the game, but backups can't afford a stinker like the Thornton goal. I really do trust him. We can't have anymore of those go in, though.

- Brian Gibbons. I like him too, but as a right-winger he seems lost to me. There's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be playing third-line left wing right now. He brings energy, a little offense, great speed and tenacity. He can be our Nathan Gerbe, with maybe less agitation and maybe a little more playmaking. He would be good for Sutter. Force Sutter to move his feet. But take him off the first line once and for all. It's not working. Why did we get Stempniak?

- If we were going to use Stempniak strictly on the third line and Goc strictly as the fourth-line center, we have two guys in the AHL right now who could do the exact same roles (Megna and Sill), and we could have kept the picks. Makes no sense.

Conspiracy theory alert! Bylsma keeps Gibbons on the top line so that he can boast about how great KCD is and the need to bring it back next season.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm not sure how you can trust Zatkoff Jags. He has played fine in most of the games, but he has Fleury like playoff stats and has let in a fair amount of weak goals this year. He's a decent back up and can develop into a good one, but he shouldn't be trusted even close to Fleury game in game out.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I will preface this by saying I only watched the first two periods last night. The combination of being very tired, having to sit through another period of Tweedle-Steigerwald and Tweedle-Errey and being very upset with all the stupid line changes in the second period did me in.

Last night was a microcosm of what's wrong with this team, and what's been wrong with this team since '09. For one of the few times in memory, I actually agreed with Steigerwald when he said the first period might have been our best of the season. They not only were flying out there, but they looked positionally sound, players looked like they were in positions to succeed, the defense pairings were awesome, everything was clicking. I loved what I was seeing.

Then, for whatever reason that only Dan Bylsma knows, we started changing everything up. Neal playing with Kunitz and Crosby for a few shifts. Brandon Sutter centering Evgeni Malkin. All kinds of craziness. And the blueline pairings were now also out of whack, though that was because Bortuzzo was out (what happened to him, by the way? Is he hurt?). I understand the need for changes on the blueline when someone goes down (of course, Disco Dan, that also could be alleviated by dressing Deryk Engelland as a fourth-line winger instead of that useless pile of nothing called Taylor Pyatt), but it just trickled onto the forwards and there really is no basis for any of it. Usually, whenever we come out of a PK or a PP Disco starts his usual tinkering. This time, it seemed to last longer...as if he wasn't happy with the first period. What? Even an idiot like Paul Steigerwald could see we were playing damn good hockey.

Anyway, a few more things:

- I feel bad for Zatkoff. Made several quality saves throughout the game, but backups can't afford a stinker like the Thornton goal. I really do trust him. We can't have anymore of those go in, though.

- Brian Gibbons. I like him too, but as a right-winger he seems lost to me. There's absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be playing third-line left wing right now. He brings energy, a little offense, great speed and tenacity. He can be our Nathan Gerbe, with maybe less agitation and maybe a little more playmaking. He would be good for Sutter. Force Sutter to move his feet. But take him off the first line once and for all. It's not working. Why did we get Stempniak?

- If we were going to use Stempniak strictly on the third line and Goc strictly as the fourth-line center, we have two guys in the AHL right now who could do the exact same roles (Megna and Sill), and we could have kept the picks. Makes no sense.

Conspiracy theory alert! Bylsma keeps Gibbons on the top line so that he can boast about how great KCD is and the need to bring it back next season.

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

Goc and Stempniak are far better than Sill and Megna. These guys aren't good players, they are just better than Adams as Glass. Our forward prospects are laughable.

I feel bad for the guy that takes over for Shero, he's going to have a mess to address.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Remember when Sid was one of the more tenacious stars in the league defensively? Remember when he was the one guy on the team you could count on to bust his ass from the time he hopped over the boards until he got back onto the bench? That gif, and to be honest all of last night's game, was a complete joke. Probably the worst game Sid's ever played in the NHL. This is where someone behind the bench with a sack would help out. But it's Bylsma, so, no big deal. Everyone still gets ice cream after the game.

And, not to beat an already decomposed horse, but you gotta think that goes back to Bylsma. No accountability, constantly playing him with guys who are borderline AHLers, seeing Bylsma's inability to coach, etc. That's gotta be wearing on him mentally.

How many other superstars in the league are left with a guy like Gibbons on their wing? Or better yet, when healthy, Dupuis. We're looking at eight years of this, too. Not that anyone on his line keeps him from pulling that kind of **** on the power play, but in general--Sid's probably frustrated beyond belief but he's not the kind of guy who will ever speak out. It's the Therrien situation all over again, but the opposite side of the spectrum.

Top to bottom, we got embarrassed last night. The only guys who showed up were Maatta, Despres. Zatkoff was the reason it wasn't 10-3, so I can't really give him a minus, but a couple of his goals were pretty awful. The first goal was pretty much the Penguins' D allowing the Sharks to own the crease (that's nothing new). The Marleau goal probably should have been a save, but whatever. The third goal, Orpik just decided he was bored and went for a walk leaving Burns wide open in the slot. Orpik's as big a problem with this team as anything you can possibly point out, he's been absolute **** for several years now. His play has dropped off precipitously since the Cup. The Thornton goal was BAD, like Fleury in the post-season bad. So again, not great when you look at the goals, but Zatkoff was solid for the other 850 shots against.

I've been saying it for months. This team is a paper tiger, and we're going to get decimated when the games really start to matter. I'd be absolutely astonished if we made it out of the East, like floored. But hypothetically, if we made it to the Finals, we might as well not even show up. We'd lose in 3.

Shero's got a LOT of work to do to fix this problem, and I'm not sure he has the sack or the brains to do it.

I keep harping on this, but part of the problem with Crosby and Malkin is that we only use them in offensive situations. You want a fully engaged Crosby and Malkin? Treat them like the franchise players they are, and put them out there in every situation. Pull a Mike Keenan. Play them until they drop dead from fatigue. That's what they want, anyway.

I laughed last night when Glass was in the box and Bylsma used Kunitz to kill instead of Malkin. Kunitz is also a first-unit PP guy, and he is ahead of Malkin on the PK totem pole too. Makes no sense.

Why are the Pens spending so much for Crosby and Malkin if their only job is to literally be the offense for this team? The coach trusts thee worst player in the NHL currently, Craig Adams, more than he does one of the league's highest-paid (Malkin next year). Something is seriously amiss here.

 

[radapex]

- I feel bad for Zatkoff. Made several quality saves throughout the game, but backups can't afford a stinker like the Thornton goal. I really do trust him. We can't have anymore of those go in, though.

Every goalie is going to give up stinkers. Whether you're Zatkoff or Fleury, Lundqvist, Rinne, Miller, etc - every goalie gives up stinkers from time to time, sometimes even multiple times in the same game. Last night's game wasn't lost because of a couple weak ones that got by a guy who hadn't started for 35 days, it was lost by a team who took their foot off the gas after 20 minutes and let the Sharks have their way with them for the remainder of the game.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He should be the 13th forward at this point in his career.

He should be some ECHL team's problem or a bit player for some lower-rung team in Europe. Not anywhere close to the NHL. Not trying to be overly-harsh, honestly. It's just the reality of where he actually is as a hockey player.

And nice post, Jags. I was pulling my hair out over the line juggling all second period, too. I realize that PKs and PPs can interfere with the lines. But only to a degree. There was some willful tinkering going on there, too. And it didn't make much sense.

Don't agree about Zatkoff, though. I think he's mediocre, at best. I certainly don't trust him.

 

[Terrapin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Brandon Sutter is the most blah, vanilla player I may have ever seen. Is there anything about him at all that stands out? I would honestly rather see Vitale in the lineup over him. Sure, Sutter has a good shift every few weeks, but outside of that 30 seconds a month he is absolutely invisible.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Every goalie is going to give up stinkers. Whether you're Zatkoff or Fleury, Lundqvist, Rinne, Miller, etc - every goalie gives up stinkers from time to time, sometimes even multiple times in the same game. Last night's game wasn't lost because of a couple weak ones that got by a guy who hadn't started for 35 days, it was lost by a team who took their foot off the gas after 20 minutes and let the Sharks have their way with them for the remainder of the game.

Oh I agree. I just think that goal will hurt Zatkoff because of how it looked. Hopefully, he gets another chance this year. My gut tells me that he played his final game of the season for us last night. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Brandon Sutter is the most blah, vanilla player I may have ever seen. Is there anything about him at all that stands out? I would honestly rather see Vitale in the lineup over him. Sure, Sutter has a good shift every few weeks, but outside of that 30 seconds a month he is absolutely invisible.

Shero will move him in a trade this off season. No chance he keeps him around the way he has played for this team

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Every goalie is going to give up stinkers. Whether you're Zatkoff or Fleury, Lundqvist, Rinne, Miller, etc - every goalie gives up stinkers from time to time, sometimes even multiple times in the same game. Last night's game wasn't lost because of a couple weak ones that got by a guy who hadn't started for 35 days, it was lost by a team who took their foot off the gas after 20 minutes and let the Sharks have their way with them for the remainder of the game.

And here's yet another legit gripe.

This team's propensity to crawl into some sort of slowly-unraveling, do-nothing, soft, ball-less "prevent" defense for sometimes 40 minutes or more of a game. Yeah... because that's this team's strength -- sitting back on it's heels, playing passively and taking what amounts to body blows for shift after shift after shift. Sound strategy.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I keep harping on this, but part of the problem with Crosby and Malkin is that we only use them in offensive situations. You want a fully engaged Crosby and Malkin? Treat them like the franchise players they are, and put them out there in every situation. Pull a Mike Keenan. Play them until they drop dead from fatigue. That's what they want, anyway.

I laughed last night when Glass was in the box and Bylsma used Kunitz to kill instead of Malkin. Kunitz is also a first-unit PP guy, and he is ahead of Malkin on the PK totem pole too. Makes no sense.

Why are the Pens spending so much for Crosby and Malkin if their only job is to literally be the offense for this team? The coach trusts thee worst player in the NHL currently, Craig Adams, more than he does one of the league's highest-paid (Malkin next year). Something is seriously amiss here.

I agree. I miss the days when Malkin was one of the better two-way guys on the team. Hell, he used to get more takeaways than Datsyuk. Malkin is at his best when he's in this predatory mindset. That's all but been taken from him by Bylsma.

And I don't want Kunitz on the first PP unit anymore. Give me Malkin, Crosby, Neal, Niskanen and Maatta on the top unit. Kunitz just makes too many dumb plays and is prone to penalties in the offensive zone on the PP too often.

 

[M10]

Crosby is partially responsible for the positive response Pittsburgh had when faced with losing our team. He's allowed to have an off night.

We can break down the details here over the years about this team. It's productive to vent. It will remain the same however. There is a reason coaches traditionally last just over a few years with a specific team in the NHL. It's almost a given. Even the ones who have had longevity with some degree of success haven't really accomplished much outside of a winning season.

It was time to hire a new coach 2 years ago. I maintain that in a normal hockey organization, if Bylsma remains after a disappointing post season again, it's time to start discussing Ray Shero's future.

I appreciate Ray Shero's "stand-by-you man" attitude, but not in a professional sports/entertainment business. You get paid 80% more than the general public to live with that pressure and succeed. That is why you are being compensated so highly. Part of it is telling your buddy he is not cut out or the job.

And let's face it, what is the worst that happens after being relieved of coaching duties? You end up a scout or a TSN panel still making more money than everyone else. Meanwhile, ending up in another coaching position as most do. Your buddy will be just fine.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Didn't watch the game last night. Was too tired. I'm starting to lose interest in watching the pens. I mean... Lee ****in' Stempniak? This guy was a complete bum on the leafs. I wanted Chris Stewart badly.

 

[radapex]

And here's yet another legit gripe.

This team's propensity to crawl into some sort of slowly-unraveling, do-nothing, soft, ball-less "prevent" defense for sometimes 40 minutes or more of a game. Yeah... because that's this team's strength -- sitting back on it's heels, playing passively and taking what amounts to body blows for shift after shift after shift. Sound strategy.

Exactly. As much as folks complain about Fleury or Orpik or Scuderi or whoever, the root of the Pens problems remains to be Bylsma.

In 2008 and 2009, Therrien had finally insituted some structured into a Penguins team that desparately needed it. He was such an authoritarian figure that he lost the team, but the structure was still there and it laid the foundation for Bylsma to coach the team to a Stanley Cup championship. Since then, that structure has quickly faded to a shadow of its former self.

An unstructured team will never be successful in the playoffs. You could make all the personnel changes in the world and it won't make a difference as long as Bylsma remains at the helm. I like Bylsma, and there are positives to his coaching style - but he's not a good fit for a Stanley Cup contender.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Didn't watch the game last night. Was too tired. I'm starting to lose interest in watching the pens. I mean... Lee ****in' Stempniak? This guy was a complete bum on the leafs. I wanted Chris Stewart badly.

It's better then the junk we currently have on our bottom 6, so I can't argue with Shero on our 2 trades. Our bottom 6 is still bad but it was even worse

 

[Terrapin]

Didn't watch the game last night. Was too tired. I'm starting to lose interest in watching the pens. I mean... Lee ****in' Stempniak? This guy was a complete bum on the leafs. I wanted Chris Stewart badly.

Up until this season I've rarely missed a game over the last few decades (save for the Rico Fata era). Maybe I'm just getting older, but the Pens just aren't 'must see' TV for me anymore. Hard to invest so much in them when you know the ultimate outcome

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Couldn't agree more on Sutter. He's ho-hum as they come. He doesn't excel at anything, he's just serviceable or good. I can't really hate on the guy since he's only making $2M/yr, but no way in Hell I give him a raise--or even retain him this summer. Another reason I wanted Kesler extremely badly. I have a sneaking suspicion that the organization has been dying to go back to the 3C model ever since they deviated from it, but Sutter is NOT a guy you build a 3rd line around. I despise the 3C model, since it spreads the talent too thin and doesn't afford Sid and Geno the linemates they need or deserve, but if Kesler is your 3C, I'd be fine with it. I still subscribe to the school of thought that says "You have two of the best players to play in the past 20 years, give them elite linemates and give them the best chance to carry you to Cups," but it's pretty apparent that the organization feels differently.

I hope we make another push for Kesler this off season, and I hope he makes it known he'd like to be traded here even more.

 

[radapex]

Didn't watch the game last night. Was too tired. I'm starting to lose interest in watching the pens. I mean... Lee ****in' Stempniak? This guy was a complete bum on the leafs. I wanted Chris Stewart badly.

Goc and Stempniak are big upgrades to the Pens bottom 6. Stewart would've been a great addition, but it seems the asking price was extremely high.

 

[TheFlightlessBird]

I really hope we get spanked again tonight because if we don't the popular vote will revert back to "oh, we are 1st in the east, nothing wrong, blah, blah, blah." The tunnel vision amongst some is astounding.

Although i do hope Sid scores a bit tonight.

 

[Shady Machine]

Couldn't agree more on Sutter. He's ho-hum as they come. He doesn't excel at anything, he's just serviceable or good. I can't really hate on the guy since he's only making $2M/yr, but no way in Hell I give him a raise--or even retain him this summer. Another reason I wanted Kesler extremely badly. I have a sneaking suspicion that the organization has been dying to go back to the 3C model ever since they deviated from it, but Sutter is NOT a guy you build a 3rd line around. I despise the 3C model, since it spreads the talent too thin and doesn't afford Sid and Geno the linemates they need or deserve, but if Kesler is your 3C, I'd be fine with it. I still subscribe to the school of thought that says "You have two of the best players to play in the past 20 years, give them elite linemates and give them the best chance to carry you to Cups," but it's pretty apparent that the organization feels differently.

I hope we make another push for Kesler this off season, and I hope he makes it known he'd like to be traded here even more.

The silver lining is maybe they retain Goc as 3c and use Sutter in a package for Kesler. Then you use Kesler as a rover (not that I like that per se, but it's better than him exclusively being 3c).

 

[Frederick Stanley]

Anaheim next.