Shane Doan vs. Ryan Smyth

[tony d]

Good poll but I'm going with Ryan Smyth here.

 

[MadArcand]

When smyth was on team Canada, it was basically to score goals on the powerplay.

Seriously?

You didn't see Smyth much in international games it seems. He was a PK regular. Hell, out of his 15 WC goals, 2 are PPGs and one SHG. That's hardly PP specialist.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Yes, seriously. Smyth was selected to play on the powerplay. That's hardly an insult - it's just as important as the penalty kill.

I may very well be underestimating smyth's defensive ability - I have gone mainly on the word of canadians who have seen him more often than me and hisndefensive game is rarely mentioned. I was surprisingly impressed by smyth's overall game in his short time with the islander's.

Contrast to Doan, however, who has a defensive game that everyone talks about.

 

[seventieslord]

Besides, making a case by first stating that Doan's teammates were crap, and then that he led the team over those crappy teammates by a significant margin doesn't make sense.

Actually, when you look at the instances when players lead their teams by large amounts of points, it usually has a lot more to do with them, than it does their teammates. I give a player full credit for such a season.

"crap teammates", as in, the "should be 2nd liners" who finish 2nd and 3rd behind a dominant teammate, are of a more or less contant value. We're talking 45-60 point guys from 1997-the present. Leading said players by a large amount is impressive when you think about what it means about the player's ability to produce with anyone and the "anyone"'s inability to produce with anyone but the good player.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The 'bure effect' was that he saw a crap ton of ice time - more than most defensemen, and his team basically just fed him the puck whenever they got it. I don't think either case applies to Doan or Smyth.

Teammates don't affect a player's scoring all the time, but linemates definitely do. That's why I brought up Doug Weight for Smythe, but apparently some of smyth's best seasons were after Weight left, so that probably wasn't fair.

 

[IggyFan12]

I am unsure but who did Doan play with for the Coyotes when they had Roenick, and Keith Tzatchuk? They had some pretty good talent when they first moved.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Roenick left phoenix in 2001 - most of doan's good seasons including his three best seasons were all after that. When did weight leave Edmonton?

 

[IggyFan12]

Weight left the Oilers to join the Blues for the 2000/2001 season after putting up 90 points as an Oiler.

 

[CloudReader]

That's why I brought up Doug Weight for Smythe, but apparently some of smyth's best seasons were after Weight left, so that probably wasn't fair.

You can even take it further than that. Smyth's centers pretty much always had their career best seasons with him on their wing -Weight, Marchant, Comrie, Horcoff, Kopitar. That's no coincidence; Ryan Smyth is an easy player to play with. He actually has/had good passing skills and his straight-to-the-net style is very easy to mesh with and certainly always fills a need. There was a season where he had to play a stretch as top line center due to Oilers injuries, he did ok on defense and was actually +50% on faceoffs. Pretty versatile player.

 

[Stephen]

Morrow very well could be a young version of Doan.

Morrow is a year younger...

 

[Stephen]

Wow, didn't realize morrow was that old already. He sure got a late start.

He's almost at 800 career games...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He's almost at 800 career games...

I meant a late start as an impact player.

 

[SniperHF]

I am unsure but who did Doan play with for the Coyotes when they had Roenick, and Keith Tzatchuk? They had some pretty good talent when they first moved.

Doan was a third/fourth liner when those guys were racking up points here.

Before the last few years Doan's best line mates were Ladislav Nagy and one season of Peter Mueller. Also played with a young Danny Briere and Daymond Langkow.

Post lockout he spent most of his time with Steven Reinprecht till he was traded.

 

[Vector]

Morrow is a year younger...

Morrow is three years younger. Morrow was drafted in 97 and Doan in 95.

Doan's first season in the NHL was 95-96 while Morrow's was 99-00.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Whatever happened to Nagy? He was pretty good for a little while

 

[MadArcand]

Doan was a third/fourth liner when those guys were racking up points here.

Doan played on 1st line with Roenick and Tkachuk in 1999-00 and 2000-01.


@TDMM: Nagy fell off as combination of injuries and sudden complacency. He was at his best when he played aggressively, and he seemed to have lost that drive totally once he left Phoenix.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Nagy was so useful in fantasy hockey back in the day. Heh.

 

[Vector]

Whatever happened to Nagy? He was pretty good for a little while

Doan played on 1st line with Roenick and Tkachuk in 1999-00 and 2000-01.


@TDMM: Nagy fell off as combination of injuries and sudden complacency. He was at his best when he played aggressively, and he seemed to have lost that drive totally once he left Phoenix.

What MadArcand said. I'm not sure what he was like to start the season but once he got to Dallas he was terrible. His playoffs with the Stars was disappointing. Canucks were targeting him since he was so afraid of getting hit.

 

[Seanconn*]

^ AWESOME AVATAR

Fallout is the absolute greatest...


gotta go with Smyth... much better goal scorer, and better in the playoffs.