Shane Doan solution to tanking

[McDraekke]

I don't like the idea... but I think it would work better if you did it this way:

When one team gets mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, take that game in the season (ie, eliminated after game 68, for example), and then every other team also uses this game 68 as their starting point (that way no team has more games than any other to get points). Out of each team that doesn't make the playoffs from this point in, the team with the most points gets to draft first.

Does this make any sense? Please poke holes in it if there are some.

 

[Oilfan2]

I don't like the idea... but I think it would work better if you did it this way:

When one team gets mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, take that game in the season (ie, eliminated after game 68, for example), and then every other team also uses this game 68 as their starting point (that way no team has more games than any other to get points). Out of each team that doesn't make the playoffs from this point in, the team with the most points gets to draft first.

Does this make any sense? Please poke holes in it if there are some.

No.

Most years there are 18 plus teams that are good but only 16 get in...see LA.

What you're proposing, as well as the original one, would keep the bottom teams on the bottom and reward those that just miss the playoffs..every year.

The draft system was fine until the Oilers started winning too many high picks, now there's a race to try and 'fix' it.

How about we give the new system a shot before panicking....

 

[shoop]

The draft system was fine until the Oilers started winning too many high picks, now there's a race to try and 'fix' it.

How about we give the new system a shot before panicking....

Bingo. Amazing how two of the panic changes directly lead to the Oilers picking Yak and McD. At least one of those picks worked out for the Oilers.

This constantly tinkering with the draft is really just lame.

Can the Oilers please make the playoffs for a couple seasons in a row? Then nobody will care about the draft rules.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

The easiest and probably best solution is if you pick 1st one year, you can't pick first again the next year or 2 or 3, 2nd? same thing, 3rd same thing...

Some sort of cycle really, where if you pick first, you can't pick first again for a few years but you can pick 2nd... or 3rd or whatever really.

This is all because the Oilers have had 4 maybe 5 number 1 picks the last several years... so i think it's a fair solution but i also think it's pretty rare and speaks of some massive incompetence that you are picking 1st that many times in so many years.

 

[obglim]

32 team league league. 24 teams make the playoffs. Remaining 8 teams get 1 ball each in draft lottery.

1st round best of 3 for teams 9-24 played over 6 days. Survive that you can play against the top 8 on the 8th day, then playoffs resume as normal. Gives a huge advantage to teams in the top 8 (top 2 from each division) but gives more teams a chance to be in the playoffs so tanking isn't even a consideration.

I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this so please don't name anything after me.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Parity is King so obviously they want to keep the teams as close together as possible (in terms of the spread of talent and skills from team to team)... which is what the hard cap does and what giving the best prospects to the worst teams does.

I don't really think anything is 'broken". Only in years with a Gretzky/Lemieux/Crosby/McDavid generational type prospect is there really going to be overt tanking.

Tanking is still a risk obviously because you can get a dud that really doesn't help a franchise achieve much success due to their selection... like a Stefan or Johnson or Yak(sadly).

Obviously a Gretzky type prospect is worth throwing in the towel for... because it likely means ticket/merchandise revenue goes up which is beneficial beyond performance on the ice... so a system with some increased randomness like currently is in place is warranted.

I think what we have now in place is decent. There rarely are going to be 3 generational (or close to generational) players so having a lottery for bottom 3 at most makes sense.

As far as the percentages go... they've pretty much neutered the odds for the DFL team as I think it's pretty much 50-50 now whether they even get a top 3 pick... and at worst they get a top 4 pick... which feels "about right".

You could have lotteries for say the top 5 which would make it even more random and less rewarding for "tankers"... but I think having for example the teams with the 14th , 12th, 10th, 11th and 8th teams get the first 5 picks... while the worst team got the 6th pick... feels a bit wrong.

The best prospects should go to the worst teams to help them regain some ground and achieve parity and give fans something to hope for (like this hopeless Oilers fanbase )... instead of decent/average teams getting the best picks and creating a wider gap between the haves and have-nots in the league.

I also wonder if the Panthers or Hurricanes or Blue Jackets would have been the team to have 4 #1 picks in the past 6 years... would there really have been as much of a kerfuffle over wanting to change the draft format? Not as likely imo.

 

[snag]

Just reading this thread and a particular comment perhaps caused a misinterpretation in my own mind that came up with this....

Devise a point system which draws equates to a "currency" based one the seasons play (details I won't spend the time to think up). Then just auction the first couple rounds worth of players off and then go to the normal drafting rotation.

Everyone then has a chance at the first overall (or perhaps more than one player)....but if you were tanking to get him.....you might not be getting very much down the road if you blow the wad on that one player. Or maybe you might hold off thinking you can get a couple other studs at a discount....

Likely to be chastised and thought of as dumb....perhaps was even thought of before, I dunno.

Of course, this would also affect trading picks etc....so perhaps you would need to trade "draft currency". Granted, would be a big paradigm shift....but so was the concept of the entry draft in '63.

Might actually make the "draft" exciting though.



*edit: I see now some fantasy leagues/drafts do this. Not my cup of tea so never knew it either....

 

[Aceboogie]

Just reading this thread and a particular comment perhaps caused a misinterpretation in my own mind that came up with this....

Devise a point system which draws equates to a "currency" based one the seasons play (details I won't spend the time to think up). Then just auction the first couple rounds worth of players off and then go to the normal drafting rotation.

Everyone then has a chance at the first overall (or perhaps more than one player)....but if you were tanking to get him.....you might not be getting very much down the road if you blow the wad on that one player. Or maybe you might hold off thinking you can get a couple other studs at a discount....

Likely to be chastised and thought of as dumb....perhaps was even thought of before, I dunno.

Of course, this would also affect trading picks etc....so perhaps you would need to trade "draft currency". Granted, would be a big paradigm shift....but so was the concept of the entry draft in '63.

Might actually make the "draft" exciting though.



*edit: I see now some fantasy leagues/drafts do this. Not my cup of tea so never knew it either....

Thats why I like this type of thing so much. If gives some resemblance of equality to the draft and also brings skill to it. Smart GMs can shine and dumb GMs will sink. It doesnt take a good GM to be given a 1st overall and pick concensus 1st overall. But it does take a good GM to know when to bow out of an auction for 1st overall because that player isnt worth it. And know that you can get a quality player 6th overall. IE some teams could go crazy on bidding for Yakupov in 2012, and a smart GM (on Oiler of Bjs) would hang back and save their currency to bid on th pick to get Lindholm. The currency they "saved" goes towards getting more 2nd round picks

But youd have to make rest of draft either an auction or have each pick have a reserve price for currency. Otherwise teams would bid all currency on first round picks because they cant use that currency in any later rounds. But if you say :each 2nd round pick is worth 60, each 3rd is 50, etc etc" than teams would have to be smart.

Wild idea but it at least makes draft fun and fair(ish). Chicago really like Laine? well guess what they can get him if they pay up.

 

[Aceboogie]

Im starting to come around to this idea actually (the one Doan stole and claimed as his own)

Before I was critical that is punished teams in bad divisions, and rewarded teams in good divisions (you get eliminated faster in a good division). But then I read a article on this on my perspective change. From a playoff POV, teams in bad divisions get a big break, so only fair they get smae punishment in this system. Vice versa for teams in strong divisions

This would make hockey fun to watch and would engage all the fans. Sure teasm would find ways to tank faster, but youll never get rid of tanking unless you eliminate draft

My only suggestion to this system would be to start the "beginning" of when teams start accumulating points earlier in the year. Say when they are mathematically 80% eliminated or something. So there is a 20 game window. 20 games will even out hot/cold streaks

 

[nightfighter]

You want to fix tanking? Just give the #1 pick to the last place team, but relegate them to the AHL for a season. That'll teach em.

 

[Rita12]

I agree. Last place team gets relegated like in soccer. They along with their GM can ride the buses for a year with their top pick

 

[snag]

considering we are in the Oiler forum I can't believe there is such talk lol

 

[nightfighter]

considering we are in the Oiler forum I can't believe there is such talk lol

Lets be honest, from about 2011-2015 we were no better than an AHL team.

 

[shoop]

Lets be honest, from about 2011-2015 we were no better than an AHL team.

Not really. Any of those years the Oilers teams would have dominated the AHL.

Also pretty impractical on a number of levels. What happens with Bako if the Oilers get relegated? Do any fans in an NHL city want to pay for a season of watching their team dominate AHL competition?

 

[snag]

Lets be honest, from about 2011-2015 we were no better than an AHL team.

The only thing I would deny is that a team being relegated would have an easy time of ever getting back to the NHL and that is if they managed to even survive not being in a major league.

Arizona....toast.
TB...see ya.
Florida...adios.
Carolina...gonzo.
Nashville....arrivederci

Relegation will never be a consideration for the NHL as it doesn't follow their business model.

 

[Aceboogie]

Lets be honest, from about 2011-2015 we were no better than an AHL team.

I think being in a dominant Pacific really blinded things. Oilers have been above .500 vs East every year since 2010. This isnt to say they were horrible, they were. But they werent as bad as the record. A team like Toronto who was a tire fire in the East since 2008 is 100% worse

 

[Magnum23]

Best solution IMO even if its a bit outlandish. Give every team "X amount of draft points". Worse teams get more, better teams get less, on a sliding scale

Then have a auction for 1st and 2nd round draft picks (later round picks can be bid or, or set a reserve price of "y" amount of points for a certain round). Any team has access to any pick, but they may have to pay up. The best team in the NHL could have a crack at a top 3 pick, but it probably means they only get 1 or 2 other late round picks. If things get crazy and teams bid all points, last place will still get access to 1st overall because they have the most points totals

A bottom 5 team could also play it smart and load up on second round picks and stand on sidelines as team go crazy for top 10 picks

What this solves:
- Issue that good teams dont get access to high draft picks. Now they do, but theyll have to pay up. They already get break in FA, so theyll have to pay at draft. But atleast theyll have the chance

-Bottom teams still have access to the best picks. But its not a mononply as it was before. If a 15th place team goes all in, theyll be forced to match and beat that. This will result in them getting less 2nd-7th round picks

What this doesnt solve:

-Tanking. Teams will still tank for that last place to get more points. But tanking is not glorious. You have to sell off assets for cheap, and by you not entering the UFA race, it drives down costs and increases UFA supply for other teams (to benefit). Not to mention it ruins your teams image for future UFAs. And the reward is a 18 year old prospect who may or may not turn out in 3 years

And in the above suggestion, you can modify things to decrease tanking. To satisfy some owners or GMs you could incorporate Doans "idea" and have the team the finishes with most points after elimination get "x" draft points as a reward

Of course best solution is to end the draft and let UFA market and cap figure tanking out. But this atleast introduces a method to end the draft monopoly of bottom 5 teams to the best prospects

Love this!

 

[McSuper]

It would cause teams to tank harder.

The earlier you're mathematically eliminated, the earlier you start accruing points and the better your pick becomes.

I just posted this on the site that had the proposal .

I think the best way to avoid tanking is . The 14 teams that don't make the playoffs go into a draw with balls number 1 to 14 .

1 being last 30th OA . 1 draw . If number 10 comes up then 10 draft 1st , 11 2nd , 12 3rd , 13 4th , 14 5th . Then 30th 6th , 29th 7th and so on

No tanking and any team can get the 1st then you continue up from there to 14 and start back at number 30 . Once all non playoff teams have drafted you continue as normal for the non playoff team . 2nd rd do not chance a thing go back to the draft winner . The winner wins the right to draft 1st in every rd and no team can tank all non playoffs team has a 1 in 14 chance of picking 1st

 

[McSuper]

You want to fix tanking? Just give the #1 pick to the last place team, but relegate them to the AHL for a season. That'll teach em.

So forget expansion . A new owner is not spending 500,000,00 for a team then another 500,000,000 for an arena to play in the AHL . Also the CBA would never go for it . How do the players get paid ? All on 2 way contracts ? You think the Arizona,s of the NHL could last with out any TV money or money from the top teams ?

 

[nexttothemoon]

Relegation is just a fantasy... it simply isn't anything close to feasible under the NHL system.

Saying that... yes I can understand some people wanting perennially poor teams to be relegated out of the picture. Certainly it isn't much fun for the team's fans either watching them be out of the playoff picture for a decade or more and not playing consistently competitive hockey (or even being able to ice much of an actually entertaining product either which is really the whole point of this game).