Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Lou was never fired. He just wasn't re-signed. The plan all along - that everybody was aware of - was for Lou to be there for 3 years, and then Dubas would take over. He only fired the "experienced coach" (who was a toxic mess) when he was nosediving the team off a cliff. Both Cup finalists this year have a "rookie GM" and "rookie coach", for the record, and our rookie GM and coach are infinitely better than the established ones they replaced.

There is accountability. Accountability doesn't just mean blasting everybody into the sun when you don't get the playoff outcome you want.

There is accountability? Really?...can you give us some examples of the accountability that aren't an EU scout czar (Palifito)and Cam Charron?

 

[Nineteen67]

How many playoff games did Tampa Bay Lightning play in 17-18 and how many roster players changed?

If Tampa lost in round 1 every year after Brisbios was hired, I wonder if they would consider making a change? Probably not.

 

[Dekes For Days]

There is accountability? Really?...can you give us some examples of the accountability that aren't an EU scout czar (Palifito)and Cam Charron?

The only real "accountability" that fans see is when firings happen, because they are public and not internal, but that doesn't mean firings are the only form of accountability.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The minimum number of possible playoff series is 0, and even within a playoff series, you're only guaranteed 2 home games. The idea that we would have had more playoff home games (especially in 2019 or 2022) with different management isn't supported by anything.

Sure, you could argue that the outcome of 4 games was less representative of where they were at and the job the GM/coach were doing than the 128-point season they just had. The fact that they lost (and not just lost, got swept and embarrassed by a team that had 30 less points than them) didn't mean that Brisebois was a failure of a GM, and it didn't mean that roster was incapable of winning a playoff series. Good lessons to remember.

I don't remember talking about revenue in that quote above lol.

Now if the group there had lost in the 1st round for a few years prior and then got swept by CBJ, I would have concern. They had shown they could win rounds though so you just say "shit happens" and move on, if they lost again after that CBJ series, things probably change.

Now the Leafs managed to lose vs CBJ the following year except CBJ lost Panarin, Bob and Josh Anderson didn't play in the same series, pretty embarrassing.

 

[Trapper]

Not to take anything away from 115 point season but this team has been alive for 100 years and that is their best achievement in the last 50 years. Ok, great but don’t sell me that’s the best we are getting.
That’s not even top 30 all time.
Especially since 4 years before the new management took over we were 105 point team.

Carolina also set a record at 116. That’s also after trading Hanifin and Lindholm. So don’t tell me you can’t make moves to balance and improve. I don’t buy that. Especially when you are 0-6 post season.
We have guys coming up UFA in 2 years and a stagnant playoff team.
At that point if you aren’t looking to change the dynamic, I find it hard to accept your do nothing different result plan. It’s even going to take more than winning a round at this point but it’s a start.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don't remember talking about revenue in that quote above lol.

That was a reply to somebody else. I don't know why it marked you as the one being quoted when I copy and pasted. Fixed.

Now if the group there had lost in the 1st round for a few years prior and then got swept by CBJ, I would have concern.

If anything, them winning prior and then getting swept after the change would be much more of a reason to attribute results to a GM.

They had shown they could win rounds though

And yet they didn't win. They in fact got demolished. Teams that are capable of winning rounds can and do in fact lose in the 1st round.

if they lost again after that CBJ series, things probably change.

Extremely unlikely.

Now the Leafs managed to lose vs CBJ the following year except CBJ lost Panarin, Bob and Josh Anderson didn't play in the same series, pretty embarrassing.

Getting swept by a team 30 points below you is infinitely more embarrassing than going to the limit against a team with the same number of points as you.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That was a reply to somebody else. I don't know why it marked you as the one being quoted when I copy and pasted. Fixed.

If anything, them winning prior and then getting swept after the change would be much more of a reason to attribute results to a GM.

And yet they didn't win. They in fact got demolished. Teams that are capable of winning rounds can and do in fact lose in the 1st round.

Extremely unlikely.

Getting swept by a team 30 points below you is infinitely more embarrassing than going to the limit against a team with the same number of points as you.

What if you've never won a round, period?

 

[Nineteen67]

The only real "accountability" that fans see is when firings happen, because they are public and not internal, but that doesn't mean firings are the only form of accountability.

And press conferences.

 

[WTFMAN99]

And press conferences.

That was frustrating just basically repeating "we believe"

 

[Nineteen67]

That was frustrating just basically repeating "we believe"

Stake his job on it , lost , still has the job. And the team is still in a pickle.

 

[Apex Predator]

I’m assuming we’re bringing back the same team but hard questions need to be asked if we’re having this conversation next year. Matthews and Nylander will have one year left and you can’t risk no success and then have this guys walk for nothing. Will set the franchise back for years and years.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I’m assuming we’re bringing back the same team but hard questions need to be asked if we’re having this conversation next year. Matthews and Nylander will have one year left and you can’t risk no success and then have this guys walk for nothing. Will set the franchise back for years and years.

So losing vs CBJ and then collapsing with a 3-1 lead over MTL....hard questions should have been asked then and if not then, certainly after being up 3-2 this year right?

You can't keep kicking the can down the road a bit.

You can't tinker, you need to do some actual significant moves.

 

[Mess]

So Dubas's 26 post-season games aren't indicative? It would take 82 playoff games and consequently, if they were 1st round losses for you to have anything negative to say at all?

Yikes, I couldn't fathom being that big of a sucker.

This management team has virtually made the regular season results meaningless as long as you qualify for the playoffs, and since all 8 eastern teams recorded 100+ points its a common occurrence. not some kind of exceptional achievement either . With 3 of the 7 highest paid players in the game it should be a lock to finish in the top 1/2 of the teams in the East.

Since Leafs lose as the favorites with home ice advance and lose as the underdogs without it. actual points earned is nothing more than deciding positioning and opponent is the only thing that regular season results accomplish. Why bother cheering for home ice and higher seeding when they lose to CBJ. MON and TB regardless?.

Since its all comes down to playoff performance, you wish you could almost fast forward thru the meaningless games of the regular season and get straight to the ones that count the playoffs.

Our Leafs play 82 regular season games like all other teams, just for the right to play 7 or less more in the playoffs thereafter.

Not all Leaf fans are fooled by thinking regular season results are the begin all and end all of a successful season ... Run it back !!!

 

[rocketman588]

Sure, you could argue that the outcome of 4 games was less representative of where they were at and the job the GM/coach were doing than the 128-point season they just had. The fact that they lost (and not just lost, got swept and embarrassed by a team that had 30 less points than them) didn't mean that Brisebois was a failure of a GM, and it didn't mean that roster was incapable of winning a playoff series. Good lessons to remember.

The minimum number of possible playoff series is 0, and even within a playoff series, you're only guaranteed 2 home games. The idea that we would have had more playoff home games (especially in 2019 or 2022) with different management isn't supported by anything.

The idea that any other coach wouldn't have made the playoffs or not won a round is also not supported in that case by your logic.

However we're paying 3 forwards top 5 player in the league money so unless the gm has vastly overrated their value then Making the playoffs should be easy for anyone.

We played the minimum number of series for teams that made the playoffs.

 

[Apex Predator]

So losing vs CBJ and then collapsing with a 3-1 lead over MTL....hard questions should have been asked then and if not then, certainly after being up 3-2 this year right?

You can't keep kicking the can down the road a bit.

You can't tinker, you need to do some actual significant moves.

That’s the reality whether you agree or disagree. Here we are again and who knows we may be here again next year.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not to take anything away from 115 point season but this team has been alive for 100 years and that is their best achievement in the last 50 years. Ok, great but don’t sell me that’s the best we are getting.
That’s not even top 30 all time.
Especially since 4 years before the new management took over we were 105 point team.

Carolina also set a record at 116. That’s also after trading Hanifin and Lindholm. So don’t tell me you can’t make moves to balance and improve. I don’t buy that. Especially when you are 0-6 post season.
We have guys coming up UFA in 2 years and a stagnant playoff team.
At that point if you aren’t looking to change the dynamic, I find it hard to accept your do nothing different result plan. It’s even going to take more than winning a round at this point but it’s a start.

These truly are wasted years with a rookie GM and his coach buddy who also gets free passes. Pretty sad this is not only acceptable to some, but actually desirable to keep things as is with some tinkering and cheap #1 goalie

 

[ACC1224]

That’s the reality whether you agree or disagree. Here we are again and who knows we may be here again next year.

Amen to that.
Nice to see some good honest discussion going on in here today.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Just hope my fellow leaf fans aren't expecting a different result.

 

[ToneDog]

So losing vs CBJ and then collapsing with a 3-1 lead over MTL....hard questions should have been asked then and if not then, certainly after being up 3-2 this year right?

You can't keep kicking the can down the road a bit.

You can't tinker, you need to do some actual significant moves.

I recall Dubas and Shanny saying we need to be harder to play against after the CBJ loss. Today I heard Torts say the same thing. Dubas has since tried and failed. Let's see what the Flyers do. Maybe Dubas can fleece them for a 5'9" soft player Torts wants to dump.

Just hope my fellow leaf fans aren't expecting a different result.

Hope for the best. Expect the worst. Rinse and repeat.

 

[deprw]

Then putting one on the market should bring quite a premium then.

Pretty premium spare parts, that can't buy you that elite talent back. We need 1on1 but those aren't that common during cap era. How many elite level players have been traded? Hall and it is one of those examples why you don't do that.

Are willing to lose big amount of value in hopes of cashing in on free agency or do you keep your elite asset?

 

[deprw]

Carolina also set a record at 116. That’s also after trading Hanifin and Lindholm. So don’t tell me you can’t make moves to balance and improve. I don’t buy that. Especially when you are 0-6 post season.
We have guys coming up UFA in 2 years and a stagnant playoff team.
At that point if you aren’t looking to change the dynamic, I find it hard to accept your do nothing different result plan. It’s even going to take more than winning a round at this point but it’s a start.

Hurricanes also traded away disappointing or lesser talent in hopes of retooling their roster. We got rid of Kapanen etc as well.

Do you trade elite player for few good or for assets and try your luck on UFA market?

Matthews, Marner and Nylander are probably on top5 best picks for Leafs during the franchise history. Do we gamble or do we play with talent level that is almost impossible to acquire.

I would trade Nylander for Hellebuyck if possoble, that would solve our problems, but how many that kind of trades have you seen?

It's pretty damn hard to change dynamics without risking Chiarelli level core meltdown.

 

[WTFMAN99]

This management team has virtually made the regular season results meaningless as long as you qualify for the playoffs, and since all 8 eastern teams recorded 100+ points its a common occurrence. not some kind of exceptional achievement either . With 3 of the 7 highest paid players in the game it should be a lock to finish in the top 1/2 of the teams in the East.

Since Leafs lose as the favorites with home ice advance and lose as the underdogs without it. actual points earned is nothing more than deciding positioning and opponent is the only thing that regular season results accomplish. Why bother cheering for home ice and higher seeding when they lose to CBJ. MON and TB regardless?.

Since its all comes down to playoff performance, you wish you could almost fast forward thru the meaningless games of the regular season and get straight to the ones that count the playoffs.

Our Leafs play 82 regular season games like all other teams, just for the right to play 7 or less more in the playoffs thereafter.

Not all Leaf fans are fooled by thinking regular season results are the begin all and end all of a successful season ... Run it back !!!

We lead the league in respect in the handshake line per 60.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not to take anything away from 115 point season but this team has been alive for 100 years and that is their best achievement in the last 50 years. Ok, great but don’t sell me that’s the best we are getting.
That’s not even top 30 all time.
Especially since 4 years before the new management took over we were 105 point team.

Carolina also set a record at 116. That’s also after trading Hanifin and Lindholm. So don’t tell me you can’t make moves to balance and improve. I don’t buy that. Especially when you are 0-6 post season.
We have guys coming up UFA in 2 years and a stagnant playoff team.
At that point if you aren’t looking to change the dynamic, I find it hard to accept your do nothing different result plan. It’s even going to take more than winning a round at this point but it’s a start.

Well said, not sure how anyone could argue with any of this.

Something should have been one last summer. A new president, new GM, new coach, new goalie, major trade, whatever but something. After that embarrassing loss to MTL, there's like 2 posters here who might have objected but 99.9999% of people following this team would have understood that it was time for a change. Now after another 1st round loss, all those reasons for change still exist, but there's one argument against it which is that for the first time in ages, we actually played extremely well in the playoffs. Not saying we shouldn't make changes because I think we should, just saying that those wanting to roll it back one more time don't sound as crazy as they did last summer.

So why did we keep the status quo last year, that's the question? And now we're in a really weird place as a result. Though it feels like at least one major change will have to happen because it's hard to see the goalie situation being resolved without one. We'll see.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Well said, not sure how anyone could argue with any of this.

Something should have been one last summer. A new president, new GM, new coach, new goalie, major trade, whatever but something. After that embarrassing loss to MTL, there's like 2 posters here who might have objected but 99.9999% of people following this team would have understood that it was time for a change. Now after another 1st round loss, all those reasons for change still exist, but there's one argument against it which is that for the first time in ages, we actually played extremely well in the playoffs. Not saying we shouldn't make changes because I think we should, just saying that those wanting to roll it back one more time don't sound as crazy as they did last summer.

So why did we keep the status quo last year, that's the question? And now we're in a really weird place as a result. Though it feels like at least one major change will have to happen because it's hard to see the goalie situation being resolved without one. We'll see.

Muzzin
Kerfoot
Holl
Mrazek
88

And I guess Campbell is leaving too, that is actually a change.

The "We'd be different but I don't know if we'd be better thing" needs to not be uttered by him again, a lateral move is fine at this point if for nothing else, the incoming piece isn't tainted lol.

 

[Gallagbi]

With 3 of the 7 highest paid players in the game it should be a lock to finish in the top 1/2 of the teams in the East.

You thought the Leafs were a bubble team coming into the season, right? In the mix with Montreal if i remember correctly