Seravalli: Seravalli: Flames trade demands rescinded following Darryl Sutter’s departure

[Jeune Poulet]

Imagine being the next coach to come in and address this group, who just rescinded their trade demands after getting your predecessor fired. What are you supposed to do with that moving forward?

I'd be very comfortable, because I'd know it would have to be serious if they are going to pull the "trade me or fire him" card again. You lay out to management what kind of coach you are. And then you continue to be yourself.

 

[Stony Curtis]

All the talk in here about "millionaire millennial snowflakes should just shut up and be happy they're millionaires" is pretty funny. You're telling them to trade happiness for money, and if they can't do that, don't worry about happiness at all. Just think of the money. Shitty message lol.

Look. You can't tell a player to trade happiness for money if he already has the money!!! "STFU and enjoy your money" is not going to create a winning culture. Good coaches and managers in today's environment will find a way to appeal to guys who can no longer be motivated by money or punishment.

 

[sxvnert]

Imagine being the next coach to come in and address this group, who just rescinded their trade demands after getting your predecessor fired. What are you supposed to do with that moving forward?

I'm sure some of them are more bulletproof than others, but this kind of thing tends to leave a mark on a player's career.

Simple. Use minutes as punishment. Take Kadri & Huberdeau off the PP and watch how quickly they shut the **** up.

 

[Banded Peak]

Why does everyone just assume Sutter is the problem, and not the mental makeup of this team? LA was fine with him

The thing is it doesn't sound like it was just the players. Sounds like the entire organization revolted, from the general manager down to the trainers. If it was just the players trying to push yet another coach out the door, would Edwards have agreed to it? I have my doubts about that.

 

[joestevens29]

Simple. Use minutes as punishment. Take Kadri & Huberdeau off the PP and watch how quickly they shut the **** up.

That won't punish those guys, it'll punish the team. Now guys like Lindholm or Backlund who want to have the best numbers they can this year it might punish them, but then they'll just decide to walk at end of year or ask for a trade.

The thing is it doesn't sound like it was just the players. Sounds like the entire organization revolted, from the general manager down to the trainers. If it was just the players trying to push yet another coach out the door, would Edwards have agreed to it? I have my doubts about that.

I wonder if it saved the Flames some sort of workplace harassment lawsuit.

You almost have to think that all the non-players are thankfully for what the players did. Lot of positions are very niche and not easy to find, so you might have to stick it out in those non-playing roles.

 

[ManByng]

That’s excellent! This core will certainly get the job done for the Flames.

Inmates running the asylum !

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'd be very comfortable, because I'd know it would have to be serious if they are going to pull the "trade me or fire him" card again. You lay out to management what kind of coach you are. And then you continue to be yourself.

That seems like a pretty naive way to go about a management career. You're in charge of a room full of guys who organized to get the last coach fired. You think that group is going to be highly disciplined when you get there? Think you're going to motivate them for years on end by playing nice and avoiding conflict? At some point you have to be the bad cop, and you're doing it with guys who already know what will happen if they form ranks against you.

Generally the best move after a clash between supervisor and employees is to clear out the whole lot of them and start over. It's very hard to erase the toxic stain.

Simple. Use minutes as punishment. Take Kadri & Huberdeau off the PP and watch how quickly they shut the **** up.

Kadri and Huberdeau are BOTH signed through 2030 with no-movement clauses. They will outlast the next coach and can't be traded without their own approval. Benching them makes them untradeable anyway, and likely tanks the team even further, and meanwhile those guys just sit and collect $7 million/$10 million a year.

Again this is a huge red flag situation for the next coach. Kadri and Huberdeau can't be touched, they can win a game of chicken and they know it. The rest of the talent can walk away next summer if they don't like what they see. It's an impossible situation for a coach to instill any sort of discipline in that environment, and management knows it, so you're highly likely to end up with a pure "player's coach" where you're playing pond hockey.

 

[Negan4Coach]

There's been no specific incident that's been stated in the media but if players lock you out of your own locker room on one team and the players on another team hand in multiple trade requests to the point where they have to fire the guy before they're rescinded, I'd say there's a pretty clear pattern here that the guy is toxic as hell.

Do you think maybe he showed them his wang or something? Or just being mean and stuff like Babcock.

That seems like a pretty naive way to go about a management career. You're in charge of a room full of guys who organized to get the last coach fired. You think that group is going to be highly disciplined when you get there? Think you're going to motivate them for years on end by playing nice and avoiding conflict? At some point you have to be the bad cop, and you're doing it with guys who already know what will happen if they form ranks against you.

Generally the best move after a clash between supervisor and employees is to clear out the whole lot of them and start over. It's very hard to erase the toxic stain.



Kadri and Huberdeau are BOTH signed through 2030 with no-movement clauses. They will outlast the next coach and can't be traded without their own approval. Benching them makes them untradeable anyway, and likely tanks the team even further, and meanwhile those guys just sit and collect $7 million/$10 million a year.

Again this is a huge red flag situation for the next coach. Kadri and Huberdeau can't be touched, they can win a game of chicken and they know it. The rest of the talent can walk away next summer if they don't like what they see. It's an impossible situation for a coach to instill any sort of discipline in that environment, and management knows it, so you're highly likely to end up with a pure "player's coach" where you're playing pond hockey.

Kirk Muller it is then.

 

[joestevens29]

That seems like a pretty naive way to go about a management career. You're in charge of a room full of guys who organized to get the last coach fired. You think that group is going to be highly disciplined when you get there? Think you're going to motivate them for years on end by playing nice and avoiding conflict? At some point you have to be the bad cop, and you're doing it with guys who already know what will happen if they form ranks against you.

Generally the best move after a clash between supervisor and employees is to clear out the whole lot of them and start over. It's very hard to erase the toxic stain.



Kadri and Huberdeau are BOTH signed through 2030 with no-movement clauses. They will outlast the next coach and can't be traded without their own approval. Benching them makes them untradeable anyway, and likely tanks the team even further, and meanwhile those guys just sit and collect $7 million/$10 million a year.

Again this is a huge red flag situation for the next coach. Kadri and Huberdeau can't be touched, they can win a game of chicken and they know it. The rest of the talent can walk away next summer if they don't like what they see. It's an impossible situation for a coach to instill any sort of discipline in that environment, and management knows it, so you're highly likely to end up with a pure "player's coach" where you're playing pond hockey.

I don't know that I believe this. This wasn't really just players not liking a coaches system. They literally had issues with the man Sutter was.

Players will always have some sort of issue with a coach, but at the end of the day will buy in if the guy isn't a jackass.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

That seems like a pretty naive way to go about a management career. You're in charge of a room full of guys who organized to get the last coach fired. You think that group is going to be highly disciplined when you get there? Think you're going to motivate them for years on end by playing nice and avoiding conflict? At some point you have to be the bad cop, and you're doing it with guys who already know what will happen if they form ranks against you.

Generally the best move after a clash between supervisor and employees is to clear out the whole lot of them and start over. It's very hard to erase the toxic stain.

I think there's enough there regarding Sutter, including what happened at his last job and issues being raised by the non-player staff as well, that you kind of have to give everyone a clean slate/act in good faith and assume that Sutter largely was the problem and that the players/staff will be reasonable going forward.

 

[MikeyMike01]

All the talk in here about "millionaire millennial snowflakes should just shut up and be happy they're millionaires" is pretty funny. You're telling them to trade happiness for money, and if they can't do that, don't worry about happiness at all. Just think of the money. Shitty message lol.

Look. You can't tell a player to trade happiness for money if he already has the money!!! "STFU and enjoy your money" is not going to create a winning culture. Good coaches and managers in today's environment will find a way to appeal to guys who can no longer be motivated by money or punishment.

Let’s start a charity to help the underprivileged multimillionaires who play a children’s game for adoring fans

 

[joestevens29]

Do you think maybe he showed them his wang or something? Or just being mean and stuff like Babcock.



Kirk Muller it is then.

Pelletier issue, goaltending issue, playing Huberdeau on wrong side for much of the year. Among other things that lead to what has been called a "Culture of fear". Just kinda mocked everyone

Flames’ Darryl Sutter in trouble over latest outburst, gets attacked by Huberdeau's agent!

Should he be fired?

www.hockeyfeed.com

 

[treple13]

Not sure it’s a good idea for Calgary to invest in yet another high value over 30 contract.

In my original comment I suggested it likely doesn't make sense, and would require a similar contract going to other way to work (Kadri probably). Even still, Calgary definitely doesn't need more D. Kylington returning should fill some of the need for a Karlsson type puck mover

 

[Nanuuk]

There was no Pelletier issue per se. A response to a dweeb of a 'reporter', Eric Francis, that was intended to put down the reporter, not the player, was taken out of context. Said Dweeb then wrote a column inflating the 'sin' of a tongue in cheek response.

Playing Huberdeau at RW was an attempt to get him going by allowing him to see more of the ice. It worked spectacularly last year with Tkachuk.

Not so much with spoiled brat Huberdeau.

Culture of Fear? What a joke.

 

[HighLifeMan]

That seems like a pretty naive way to go about a management career. You're in charge of a room full of guys who organized to get the last coach fired. You think that group is going to be highly disciplined when you get there? Think you're going to motivate them for years on end by playing nice and avoiding conflict? At some point you have to be the bad cop, and you're doing it with guys who already know what will happen if they form ranks against you.

Generally the best move after a clash between supervisor and employees is to clear out the whole lot of them and start over. It's very hard to erase the toxic stain.



Kadri and Huberdeau are BOTH signed through 2030 with no-movement clauses. They will outlast the next coach and can't be traded without their own approval. Benching them makes them untradeable anyway, and likely tanks the team even further, and meanwhile those guys just sit and collect $7 million/$10 million a year.

Again this is a huge red flag situation for the next coach. Kadri and Huberdeau can't be touched, they can win a game of chicken and they know it. The rest of the talent can walk away next summer if they don't like what they see. It's an impossible situation for a coach to instill any sort of discipline in that environment, and management knows it, so you're highly likely to end up with a pure "player's coach" where you're playing pond hockey.

Give me a break. Darryl was held accountable for creating a terrible work environment. That's it. That's the end of the story.

Trying to pin it on one or two players is foolish. A deep dive was done from the top of the organization to the bottom and this was the only viable outcome based on the feedback that Maloney received from not only the players, but agents, and other staff members.

It's not a red flag whatsoever. Don't be a pompous, belittling, grouchy old man and you will earn the respect of your players and peers.

 

[MXD]

Let’s start a charity to help the underprivileged multimillionaires who play a children’s game for adoring fans

Well, you're running the charity for underpriviledged multimillionaire who are coaching them.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Pelletier issue, goaltending issue, playing Huberdeau on wrong side for much of the year. Among other things that lead to what has been called a "Culture of fear". Just kinda mocked everyone

Flames’ Darryl Sutter in trouble over latest outburst, gets attacked by Huberdeau's agent!

Should he be fired?

www.hockeyfeed.com

LOL that's what amounts to a "Culture of Fear" for Gen Z, eh? I hope they do bring in Torts and teach them what that's all about. I hope he has Huberdeau and Kadri skating in circles carrying an ammo crate on poles stuffed with sand! You can't give in to this type of thing. Sends a bad message.

 

[Ciao]

They should hire Torts

Babcock.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Give me a break. Darryl was held accountable for creating a terrible work environment. That's it. That's the end of the story.

Trying to pin it on one or two players is foolish. A deep dive was done from the top of the organization to the bottom and this was the only viable outcome based on the feedback that Maloney received from not only the players, but agents, and other staff members.

It's not a red flag whatsoever. Don't be a pompous, belittling, grouchy old man and you will earn the respect of your players and peers.

LOL, I’m not pinning it on one or two players. Sutter’s influence was very likely the core issue. But removing the source of a toxin doesn’t mean the environment becomes non-toxic. You still have to deal with a group of guys who were extremely unhappy for months on end and self-organized to fight management largely in the public eye. That’s a brutal environment to walk into and try to be successful as the new manager. The NHL is not a league which rewards a lack of discipline, so the new guy is going to have to walk a fine line in order to get that locker room back on track. If he can’t do it in Year One, they have a UFA problem the following summer. And then the situation just spirals.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

There was no Pelletier issue per se. A response to a dweeb of a 'reporter', Eric Francis, that was intended to put down the reporter, not the player, was taken out of context. Said Dweeb then wrote a column inflating the 'sin' of a tongue in cheek response.

I watched that Pelletier video. How the hell was his response intended to put down the reporter and if he wanted to, why use Pelletier to do it? If that's what he was trying to do, then he's clumsy on top of being of an asshole.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I heard Seravalli on the radio the other day and I don't know how I never noticed this before......he sounds almost exactly like Colin Robinson.

He's got the same tone and upward inflection when he talks, it almost got annoying after a while.

 

[Patmac40]

There was no Pelletier issue per se. A response to a dweeb of a 'reporter', Eric Francis, that was intended to put down the reporter, not the player, was taken out of context. Said Dweeb then wrote a column inflating the 'sin' of a tongue in cheek response.

Playing Huberdeau at RW was an attempt to get him going by allowing him to see more of the ice. It worked spectacularly last year with Tkachuk.

Not so much with spoiled brat Huberdeau.

Culture of Fear? What a joke.

His "tongue in cheek" response ended up just being Sutter mocking the performance a kid playing his first game. There wasn't some veil over it nor was it to respond to a "dweeb" of a reporter, and it would have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in the room.

Then he plays his star forward out of position using a play style that doesn't fit him at all. And it didn't work yet he kept going with it instead of recognizing the need for a change. Plus, Huberdeau is a major threat on the PP yet they barely worked on it all year according to the players. And in doing so now Huberdeau is somehow a spoiled brat?

The culture of fear goes back to his LA days where players wouldn't even want to go talk with him in his office because what they would talk about would be dismissed or he flat out wouldn't want to talk with them. Doughty even noted this before. So, is everyone wrong or does Sutter have no interpersonal/managerial skills? Considering this is a job where you're managing players and trying to get the best out of them, it's a pretty important part of the job.

 

[Nanuuk]

His "tongue in cheek" response ended up just being Sutter mocking the performance a kid playing his first game. There wasn't some veil over it nor was it to respond to a "dweeb" of a reporter, and it would have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in the room.

Then he plays his star forward out of position using a play style that doesn't fit him at all. And it didn't work yet he kept going with it instead of recognizing the need for a change. Plus, Huberdeau is a major threat on the PP yet they barely worked on it all year according to the players. And in doing so now Huberdeau is somehow a spoiled brat?

The culture of fear goes back to his LA days where players wouldn't even want to go talk with him in his office because what they would talk about would be dismissed or he flat out wouldn't want to talk with them. Doughty even noted this before. So, is everyone wrong or does Sutter have no interpersonal/managerial skills? Considering this is a job where you're managing players and trying to get the best out of them, it's a pretty important part of the job.

It most certainly was. The question was about an individual's play. Francis knew full well that Sutter doesn't take kindly to questions about a player's play. Ask a question about the team's play and you are more likely to get a kind response.

Sutter went out of his way afterwards to convey his thoughts directly to Pelletier in private and furthermore went to Pelltier's parents with tha same message "the kid done good".

So Huberdeau didn't like how he was being used. Oh boo-hoo. Grin and bear it and go out to do your best. Instead he turns into a cry-baby.

As far as a 'culture of fear', that is quite an exaggeration. Many current and former Sutter players sing a different tune.

 

[Bond]

There was no Pelletier issue per se. A response to a dweeb of a 'reporter', Eric Francis, that was intended to put down the reporter, not the player, was taken out of context. Said Dweeb then wrote a column inflating the 'sin' of a tongue in cheek response.

Playing Huberdeau at RW was an attempt to get him going by allowing him to see more of the ice. It worked spectacularly last year with Tkachuk.

Not so much with spoiled brat Huberdeau.

Culture of Fear? What a joke.

lol. Treliving came out and said it was handled inappropriately. Staff outside of the players hated working for Sutter as well, I know a few. He also stapled Lucic to Huberdeau for too long. He got canned because he was stubborn and his player usage, line combos, and refusal to play youth. Winning cures all and they stopped winning just like in LA.

 

[Nanuuk]

lol. Treliving came out and said it was handled inappropriately. Staff outside of the players hated working for Sutter as well, I know a few. He also stapled Lucic to Huberdeau for too long. He got canned because he was stubborn and his player usage, line combos, and refusal to play youth. Winning cures all and they stopped winning just like in LA.

Lol yourself. Could it have been handled better? Sure. Sutter could have refrained from putting his disdain of Francis on full display.

Lucic had an immediate positive effect on that line which went on for about 9 games as I recall. Then yes they weren't as effective.

Definitely a firing offence.