Speculation: Sens talk about stuff and things (Old Olle)

[JungleBeat]

Yes but it did save 16.2 M$ is REAL DOLLARS, even if there was 1 or 2 years left. Michalek was never a mistake, he has been on friendly deals his whole career, who got shortened because of injuries. Cowen's contract wouldn't have been a mistake too if it wasn't for injuries. He just never was the same player after he came back in 2013 (IIRC). Greening was a mistake from day 1 IMO. Bottom-6 player who got glorified, his salary should have been about half

Taking on Phaneuf repaired all this. If you think that "Taking on Phaneuf with his long term contract was a mistake" it's probably just because you don't know how to make the calculations. I could do them but I have hinted enough for anybody to figure it out. I have other things to do than post on this board lol

It looks like this
33 - 16 - + - + - / number of games * 82

All I hear is excuses for Murray giving out awful deals to Michalek and Cowen. Different opinions I suppose.

 

[Tuna99]

I could give two ****s about stats, the eye test showed me that St Louis played a much tougher game than everyone they played, they out worked them & slowly pounded them down & out lasted them. Stats are for losers.

St Louis totally grounded out very team. Stats above is because losing teams enerally thorw more hits because they don’t have the puck as much

 

[Tuna99]

All I hear is excuses for Murray giving out awful deals to Michalek and Cowen. Different opinions I suppose.

It goes like this:

Muckler cost us a Cup and was old and senile

Murray was just doing his best with two hands tied behind his back and all his bad moves were direct orders from Melncyk

Dorion isn’t qualified to do his job

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

My unsolicited opinion...

I don't mind more depth, big or small, but it does seem like this is nothing more than a depth move for Belleville, not a bad thing. Seems like there's just too many LD ahead of him no matter how he performs. Chabot, Brannstrom, Wolanin & Lajoie off the top of my head.

Getting Phaneuf was fixing their own mistakes, so not sure I would heap much praise on them for that move. I share the opinion that the long term consequences made it a poor move, even though there were some positives from it. We got the conference finals run with him on the team, so it's certainly a bit muddy, but if that hadn't happened, I see little argument that it wasn't a big mistake, even if it did clean up some of the previous messes.

Whether it's Phaneuf, the others they sent, our veteran core, one thing is for certain... this team loves to blow their money on role players, tweeners and over-the-hill vets. For a budget team, they sure do like to nickel and dime it away with reckless abandon.

In regards to size, I do think it still matters to a certain extent, but that speed and skill has surpassed its importance. I saw this as much more of an issue back in the early 2000's than our more recent playoff losses. If anything, I would say the massive difference in skill is what has had Pittsburgh sending us packing numerous times. We quite often looked like we flat out didn't belong on the ice with them. Against Anaheim we were exposed as a one line team and a backup caliber goalie as the starter.

 

[BonkTastic]

It goes like this:

Muckler cost us a Cup and was old and senile

Murray was just doing his best with two hands tied behind his back and all his bad moves were direct orders from Melncyk

Dorion isn’t qualified to do his job

Muckler was handed a deep and skilled Cup Contender built almost entirely by his predecessors, and squandered the best chance we ever had at a Cup, while catastrophically draining the org's depth and futures in doing so.

Murray was probably a bit too old-school in his hockey ops ways, but also was tasked at maintaining the org's reputation and good standing at the same time, which is a job that we've learned is far more difficult than I think most of us could have imagined. A Grade-A coach, a perhaps slightly-above-average-but certainly-not-elite-by-any-means GM from a hockey ops perspective whose decisions pretty clearly got worse as the years went on and the league changed to value speed and skill over size, and was an elite POHO as far as keeping the org from melting down from within and allowing his staff to do their jobs. It's a mixed bag.

Dorion is Dorion - a great scout who is almost without a doubt swimming in deeper waters than he can manage without anyone being made available by the org to help him or mentor him, and is probably going to have a hard time ever being a GM in this league once his time in Ottawa is up, but will also no doubt have a job anywhere he wants as a director of scouting or AGM based on his successes in that field combined with his history of being loyal under the most dire of circumstances.

*edit* - whoops, didn't see the off-topic warning. My bad.

 

[R2010]

IMO Heatley was by far the best acquisition this team ever had & he had more to do with Ottawa changing their style & making the cup finals. I was not a Spezza fan either but I can't deny his contributions to the team, same for Alfredsson.

Somehow I think with Hossa we woulda ended up doing okay.

 

[GrantLemons]

Somehow I think with Hossa we woulda ended up doing okay.

Imagine Hossa's numbers from 06-09 if he was playing on the Pizza line. Guy was putting up 100 points on the Thrashers ffs.

It's really a shame we never got to see Hossa and Alfie play together after the lockout. Those dudes would have absolutely feasted.

Makes me sad thinking of a world where we locked up Alfie/Spezza/Hossa/Chara after 06. That's a core that would have challenged for cups for years.

 

[Cosmix]

Meanwhile Buddy Robinson, David Dziurzynski, Ben Harpur, Colin Greening and all those big tall, tough guys have sure been the cornerstones of successful seasons.

Let's face it; two small, soft Swedes (Alfie and EK) have led us to the most successful seasons and postseasons that we've ever had. Not the Zack Smiths and the Boros.

SMH.

The sooner you realize that taller isn't better (at hockey anyway) the better off you'll be.

Buddy Robinson, David Dziurzynski, Ben Harpur, Colin Greening might be tall but they are not tough. Ben did have a few scraps but not enough to create fear in opposition forwards.

 

[aragorn]

They have had plenty of big bruisers at the same time and have failed to win a cup? Pretty simple isn't it?

It is, they need to get rid of a good number of their soft players & add tougher players with skill who can skate & play at a high level with speed.

 

[BonkTastic]

they need to... add tougher players with skill who can skate & play at a high level with speed.

Tough players... who also are skilled... and fast... and play hard every night/ play at a high level?

So we need to acquire all-star players. Got it. Sounds easy enough. Can't imagine too many people will disagree on this point.

 

[aragorn]

Tough players... who also are skilled... and fast... and play hard every night/ play at a high level?

So we need to acquire all-star players. Got it. Sounds easy enough. Can't imagine too many people will disagree on this point.

Then why are they constantly drafting & trading for smaller soft players when there are plenty of bigger tougher players with skill that they by pass at the draft & not trade for when they are available. They also trade away their toughness & bring in smaller softer players. I know it's a circular argument with no end, but while so many on here are constantly bashing the tougher players, I have just as many complaints about smaller players & their faults & foibles.

They have & have had plenty of first rounders on their team, but rather than pick the tougher players like Tkachuk & how many were against that pick, but instead go for the smaller softer players rather than the bigger tougher players with skill. Missing out on Lavoie or Leason in this yr's draft is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Although, it could all be a moot point if this owner doesn't end up keeping these players anyway due to the absorbent costs of good athletes today.

It's a balance I'm looking for & at the moment with this team IMO it's slanted in the wrong direction, especially on defence, you may not agree, but that's how I see it. Maybe it's this transition that people keep bringing up that I don't agree with & prefer to watch a much tougher style of play as we see in the playoffs rather than what I see being played in the regular season. That's really the reason I gave up on my season tickets rather than the owner, it's because the regular season is so boring & not worth the price of admission.

 

[harrisb]

Then why are they constantly drafting & trading for smaller soft players when there are plenty of bigger tougher players with skill that they by pass at the draft & not trade for when they are available. They also trade away their toughness & bring in smaller softer players. I know it's a circular argument with no end, but while so many on here are constantly bashing the tougher players, I have just as many complaints about smaller players & their faults & foibles.

They have & have had plenty of first rounders on their team, but rather than pick the tougher players like Tkachuk & how many were against that pick, but instead go for the smaller softer players rather than the bigger tougher players with skill. Missing out on Lavoie or Leason in this yr's draft is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Although, it could all be a moot point if this owner doesn't end up keeping these players anyway due to the absorbent costs of good athletes today.

It's a balance I'm looking for & at the moment with this team IMO it's slanted in the wrong direction, especially on defence, you may not agree, but that's how I see it. Maybe it's this transition that people keep bringing up that I don't agree with & prefer to watch a much tougher style of play as we see in the playoffs rather than what I see being played in the regular season. That's really the reason I gave up on my season tickets rather than the owner, it's because the regular season is so boring & not worth the price of admission.

2017 analysis of top 50 scorers in the NHL. Many of those big guys come from the “old” NHL (Laine, Scheifele, Ratananen being big exceptions. It’s trending even more towards the smaller skilled players and that’s not going to change. If we hold out for 6’4” skilled monsters this rebuild will take 20 years, there simply isn’t enough of them.

 

[aragorn]

View attachment 242993
2017 analysis of top 50 scorers in the NHL. Many of those big guys come from the “old” NHL (Laine, Scheifele, Ratananen being big exceptions. It’s trending even more towards the smaller skilled players and that’s not going to change. If we hold out for 6’4” skilled monsters this rebuild will take 20 years, there simply isn’t enough of them.

There's plenty of them, every team has a number of them, what there isn't is a GM & scouting staff who want that kind of player, they like many prefer the small soft skilled players. And sadly as you said it's trending more & more towards that & boring regular season hockey, it might as well be ringette.

 

[harrisb]

There's plenty of them, every team has a number of them, what there isn't is a GM & scouting staff who want that kind of player, they like many prefer the small soft skilled players. And sadly as you said it's trending more & more towards that & boring regular season hockey, it might as well be ringette.

The game has changed, Scott Stevens would not survive today for a couple reasons. First he’d be constantly suspended, second he’d get torched from the speedy wingers. Like it or not the game has swung drastically towards high end skill.

What team is made up of bruisers? Winnipeg? Didn’t work out so well for them and they’re promptly being dismantled

 

[BonkTastic]

Then why are they constantly drafting & trading for smaller soft players when there are plenty of bigger tougher players with skill that they by pass at the draft

Because most guys who are "big & tough & skilled" that fall out of the top-10ish picks of the draft more often than not turn out to be big & tough... but not very skilled. We got burned on this wit Lazar. Lawson Crouse is the poster boy for this though.

& not trade for when they are available.

Because players who are a combination of skilled & fast & tough & play at a high level tend to be all-star players, who either aren't available via trade because they are valuable and teams want to keep them, or have comensurate salaries to their star power, which we don't want to pay.