Pre-Game Talk: Sens @ Stars Jan. 13 The Return Of Mr. Giggles Edition

[Vesa Awesaka]

Spezza is avg defensively no one is really denying that. I think the point is how short sighted ppl were here and blaming all our defensive mistakes on him.

I remember a lot of posters using the stupid 'addition by subtraction' line

Will posters learn from that short sightedness? Probably not I am sure those same posters will go after karlsson soon enough

NO one was blaming all are defensive miscues on spezza you keep saying that but i've never read or heard one person say all ottawa's defensive problem stem from are former number 1 center being meh defensively and generally a risky player. I remember a bunch of people picking the sens as a dark horse playoff team last year but there was also a bunch of people who looked at the defense and thought wow its not going to be good. I remember myself saying that Methot was a career bottom 3 defensemen who was over achieving, that cowen sucked, that karlsson was coming off a major injury, that phillips sucked, that gryba was not an NHLer and that corvo was a 6-7. Not saying that i was right about all the players, Methot looked better then what i expected and wier looked worse but a lot of people agreed with me.

 

[Push540]

Turris plays both ends of the ice quite well.

9 goals in 41 games and -7. Turris doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well.

 

[Push540]

More likely he was about 20% what was wrong with the team. Not replacing him with someone who can take over the same role or at least a large portion of it is currently the issue.

It's a major issue and the tweets of little birdies say he was a little cry babyish when things weren't working well last year early on.

I think him and Alfie leaving is about 75% of what's wrong with the team. Too much firepower left.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Spezza and the pizza line were quite something to behold. But they came up short. And when they played without alfie, they started to lose their dominance even more.

Heatley left, alfie retired, and then there was Spez. I remember last year thinking that it was going to be a really interesting summer to see what Murray does with Spezz. Sure he's a great offensive player, but he cant win a one on one battle unless he dekes someone. I was sure that Murray would do the hard choice and trade him.

Then conveniently Spezza says he could see the writing on the wall, he wouldnt be extended as the player we build around when his next contract comes up, so maybe moving him was best for everyone all around.

And i was like, woohoo, who care who broke up with who. Both could see the writing on the wall. I cant compare Spezza's departure to Heatleys in any way. Maybe its my desire to see the good side. I see Heatley as a traitor. But alfie retired. And Spez was a mutual agreed break up.

We arent going to replace Spezza's offence easily. Those players dont come around often. He became really good on face offs. And made the pp work often. But he was tragically flawed, and no one should know it better than Sens fans now. And like Heatley and alfie, he has also declined.

Been there, done that, we'll find another way. It'll take time.

Very nice post.

And that line talking about Spezza being tragically flawed...that just fits in so well with your avatar. Poetic. (And broke my heart a little thinking what could've been, if only John would've stayed away from the drugs. What a freaking tragedy.)

 

[OgieO]

O'Reilly is apparently available, though I wouldn't want to pay the price for him.

Unless we actually think we can land a top C with our draft pick this year, I move a lot of assets to get him. But I'd imagine the assets we'd refuse to move would be the ones they'd demand. Can't see us moving Lazar, Zibby or Hoffman. Surely Colorado would demand one of them.

I'd reeeeaaaaaalllly hate to trade Stone or Paul as well.

Cowen, Pageau, Prince, Puemple, Weircioch, both 2's this year, the 2016 #1 are all assets I'd move but I can't think any combo of that actually gets the deal done.

A #1 C, or a really good #2 C, makes this roster soooooo much better. Turris gets easier minutes and that line probably thrives. Zibby can cut his teeth with Lazar on the 3rd line - a much easier role for him. Hoff-O'Reilly-Ryan and MacArthur-Turris-Stone are a really strong top 6 imo.

He just fits what we need so perfectly

 

[Micklebot]

9 goals in 41 games and -7. Turris doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well.

7 goals in 43 games and -8, O'Reilly doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well.

8 goals in 43 games and -9, Landeskog doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well.

10 goals in 41 games and -11, Vermette doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well.

9 goals in 29 games and -7, Sharp doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well.

Oh, wait, yes they do. That stat line is meaningless when assessing two way play. Glad we cleared up how usless that post was. If you want to critique Turris' defensive play this year, there are ways to do it that actually back up your position; goals and plus/minus do not.

 

[Micklebot]

Unless we actually think we can land a top C with our draft pick this year, I move a lot of assets to get him. But I'd imagine the assets we'd refuse to move would be the ones they'd demand. Can't see us moving Lazar, Zibby or Hoffman. Surely Colorado would demand one of them.

I'd reeeeaaaaaalllly hate to trade Stone or Paul as well.

Cowen, Pageau, Prince, Puemple, Weircioch, both 2's this year, the 2016 #1 are all assets I'd move but I can't think any combo of that actually gets the deal done.

A #1 C, or a really good #2 C, makes this roster soooooo much better. Turris gets easier minutes and that line probably thrives. Zibby can cut his teeth with Lazar on the 3rd line - a much easier role for him. Hoff-O'Reilly-Ryan and MacArthur-Turris-Stone are a really strong top 6 imo.

He just fits what we need so perfectly

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to add O'Reilly long term, I just don't know if he's a >$6mil player (like his qualifying offer will have to be), and his contract hold outs scare me.

 

[HispanicAtTheDisco]

Big game as we can be anywhere between 20th and 23rd after tonight. A win puts us right behind Toronto and a loss could result in Minnesota passing us and Philadelphia and Columbus within a game.

I expect us to play a tough 60 minutes that results in a 3-2 game going either way.

 

[Push540]

If you want to critique Turris' defensive play this year, there are ways to do it that actually back up your position; goals and plus/minus do not.

So very few goals and deep in the minus isn't reflective of anything?

I posted a few stats and the statement "Turris doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well." So I wasn't "critiquing" his defensive play. I was challenging the statement "Turris plays both ends of the ice quite well." Which he does not.

 

[OgieO]

So very few goals and deep in the minus isn't reflective of anything?


I posted a few stats and the statement "Turris doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well." So I wasn't "critiquing" his defensive play. I was challenging the statement "Turris plays both ends of the ice quite well." Which he does not.

Starting with "so few goals"... could be just luck. His shooting % is 8.3%, which is on the low side for forwards. I believe forwards tend to average close to 11% (somewhere between 10% and 11%).

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Big game as we can be anywhere between 20th and 23rd after tonight. A win puts us right behind Toronto and a loss could result in Minnesota passing us and Philadelphia and Columbus within a game.

I expect us to play a tough 60 minutes that results in a 3-2 game going either way.

It's definitely going to be interesting with Seguin and Benn possibly out.

Kinda strange those two just magically disappear and Spezza moves up to #1C for a game that just happens to be the first game against Ottawa.

 

[MiscBrah]

With luck Turris would grow more comfortable in his new duties and Zibby becomes what we expect him to become, while Pageau, Lazar and company continue to develop positively. This would make the need for a true #1 guy less of an issue for sure.

But that's if everything goes our way. I think ideally we trade for a 1st line center without giving away anything essential.

The main thing though is that Turris can't be the #1 guy. Whoever we get has to be BETTER than Turris, not just as good or a little bit worse.

Who woulda thought this would become a Spezza thread?

Ya weird, we're playing against our former captain for the 1st time and our team sucks this year.

Remember the Keep Spezza Rally when only like 15 people showed up ..

That rally was flawed from the beginning. The amount of people showing up had nothing to do with Spezza supporters, and everything to do with planning.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

NO one was blaming all are defensive miscues on spezza you keep saying that but i've never read or heard one person say all ottawa's defensive problem stem from are former number 1 center being meh defensively and generally a risky player. I remember a bunch of people picking the sens as a dark horse playoff team last year but there was also a bunch of people who looked at the defense and thought wow its not going to be good. I remember myself saying that Methot was a career bottom 3 defensemen who was over achieving, that cowen sucked, that karlsson was coming off a major injury, that phillips sucked, that gryba was not an NHLer and that corvo was a 6-7. Not saying that i was right about all the players, Methot looked better then what i expected and wier looked worse but a lot of people agreed with me.

More than a reasonable number of people thought that trading spezza and his "I hate defence" attitude would make our team a lot better defensively. Because then we could Ice not 1. Not 2. Not 3. But 4 hard working skilled two way centers!! And all would be good.

 

[Micklebot]

So very few goals and deep in the minus isn't reflective of anything?

I posted a few stats and the statement "Turris doesn't play both ends of the ice quite well." So I wasn't "critiquing" his defensive play. I was challenging the statement "Turris plays both ends of the ice quite well." Which he does not.

Does it reflect poorly on the 2-way play of the players I posted? Is Marleau a poor two way player too?

Either you were critiquing his defensive play, his offensive play or both. Goals aren't the only way to create offense; Turris is currently tied for 30th in pts among centers despite playing with less talent than most ahead of him.

+/- has never been considered a good indication of defensive play, as it lacks far too much context. Is it low because he faces the toughest competition? Has goaltending been subpar when he's on the ice, are his linemates holding up their end of the bargain? Is he getting all DZ starts?



It's fair to criticise Turris' play this year, I don't think it's been as good as the last two years, but put a little more effort into than his goal totals are down and his plus minus sucks if you don't want your response to be questioned.

 

[starling]

More than a reasonable number of people thought that trading spezza and his "I hate defence" attitude would make our team a lot better defensively. Because then we could Ice not 1. Not 2. Not 3. But 4 hard working skilled two way centers!! And all would be good.

Obviously everyone hopes every trade will make our team a better team. What's wrong with that?
Spezza was traded not because sens wanted to get better defensively. Spezza was traded because he wanted out and trading him was the right thing to do.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

GDT is up: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=95547511