Post-Game Talk: Sens shoot shoot shoot and lose 5-1 to Winnipeg

[DueDiligence]

It’s obvious to see what’s not right, and that expected goals stat means shit.

I guess it means shit if you don't understand it. What it does tell you is that Sens have been competing well enough to win but bad goaltending and the lack of finishing is what is doing them in. If I am Dorian I try to trade for a scorer; a guy like Toffoli would have been a great add.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I guess it means shit if you don't understand it. What it does tell you is that Sens have been competing well enough to win but bad goaltending and the lack of finishing is what is doing them in. If I am Dorian I try to trade for a scorer; a guy like Toffoli would have been a great add.

lol if you dont understand it...

Guess what my man, finishing is a part of hockey. Like, a big part of hockey. If not, Connor Brown would be an all star.

I get the feeling a lot of Sens fans watched that first period and were like oh ya were out shooting them look at us go! It was f***ing obvious the Jets took the first period off because they know Ottawa sucks and cant score. Then in the second they put their foot on the gas and just like that the game is out of reach. They've done that to us a lot now.

 

[DueDiligence]

Really ? 25 year olds in the NHL are no better in their 300th game than what they were 13 games into their career? .... here I thought players developed into their 20's. Too bad we picked that Stutzle kid, I was hoping he might be a 30+ goal scorer, at least we didn't get LAF, apparently he will never score a 5v5 goal.

The point is that virtually every great scorer was a scorer before they got to the NHL. it might take a year or two in the NHL to get comfortable. It took Mark Stone a few years to become what he is but he was a prolific scorer in junior. So no surprise if Laf or Stutzle become great scorers the jury is out on Batherson, Norris, Logan Brown and even Brady T.

 

[DueDiligence]

lol if you dont understand it...

Guess what my man, finishing is a part of hockey. Like, a big part of hockey. If not, Connor Brown would be an all star.

I get the feeling a lot of Sens fans watched that first period and were like oh ya were out shooting them look at us go! It was f***ing obvious the Jets took the first period off because they know Ottawa sucks and cant score. Then in the second they put their foot on the gas and just like that the game is out of reach. They've done that to us a lot now.

You don't understand it my man. They have played this way for 5 games in a row. The Sens outplayed the Oilers for 2 games. Jets took the 1st period off? Complete BS.
The analytics mean that the Sens style of play, compete level, and defense* are good. It says you need to trade a few 2 way players for a shooter or two. As I said in another post a guy like Tyler Toffoli would have been a great add for this team.
* Edit- When I say defense I mean D zone coverage, giving up scoring chances, shots against etc. Not goaltending. Hogberg should be replaced.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

You don't understand it my man. They have played this way for 5 games in a row. The Sens outplayed the Oilers for 2 games. Jets took the 1st period off? Complete BS.
The analytics mean that the Sens style of play, compete level, and defense are good. It says you need to trade a few 2 way players for a shooter or two. As I said in another post a guy like Tyler Toffoli would have been a great add for this team.

What worries me is that Dorion might think the way you do and think that we are a Tyler Toffoli away from being good.

Analytics have their role, but you cant actually be watching this team and think that the Sens style of play and defense are good. There have been times where I have watched Ottawa and thought stay the course, bounces just arent going their way. This is not one of those times. This is the worst Sens team I have watched since I can remember. The shots we are generating are brutal. Almost everything is from the perimeter. We wouldnt win more then a game against any team in our division in a playoff series.

lol Tyler Toffoli

 

[Korpse]

If you think Tkachuk is a high Hockey IQ player i don't know what to say. Tkachuk is a great player and is in the power forward type and he's going to be fantastic. There's a difference between being good and having high Hockey IQ. It's quite clear from how Tkachuk passes and develops plays that he doesn't see the game 2 steps ahead of others that's what having high Hockey IQ is, it's seeing a play develop before others and making the plays to make that play happen.

Tkachuk does a great job at creating some space for himself and finding the dirty areas to fight for the puck and he does this great. but to say he has a high hockey IQ that's different.

I don't know what to say if you don't think he isn't a smart player. His understanding of the NHL play is above any other forward on this team right now. From day 1 when he came into the league it was apparent that his timing, his ability to find soft spots on the ice was very good. He knows where to go, and he knows when to go there. It's not an accident when he is left alone in front or in the slot, that's Brady's anticipation of the play and it's very good. His play in transition is also pretty good, he knows which lanes to drive to open up ice.

I don't understand why half the fanbase wants to takeaway from his impact, it's been happening since before the Sens drafted him. All he has done is come in and score back to back 20 goal seasons and for some it just isn't enough. He's younger than Batherson, Brown and Norris and is the only one who is an established impact player.

 

[DueDiligence]

What worries me is that Dorion might think the way you do and think that we are a Tyler Toffoli away from being good.

Analytics have their role, but you cant actually be watching this team and think that the Sens style of play and defense are good. There have been times where I have watched Ottawa and thought stay the course, bounces just arent going their way. This is not one of those times. This is the worst Sens team I have watched since I can remember. The shots we are generating are brutal. Almost everything is from the perimeter. We wouldnt win more then a game against any team in our division in a playoff series.

lol Tyler Toffoli

Once again I will explain it to you. The current team as it stands do not have one legitimate sniper. If they had added a guy like Toffoli they could have probably won another game or two. So instead of the Sens being historically bad they would be just bad. That helps with team morale and gives hope to the fans. But looking long term what it tells me that any moves they have to make are not for great stay at home D men or defensive centers but some pure snipers. I don't care if the guy is bad in his own end or doesn't go into the corners ; Connor Brown can do that for him. I want some scorers plain and simple.

 

[swiftwin]

If you think Tkachuk is a high Hockey IQ player i don't know what to say. Tkachuk is a great player and is in the power forward type and he's going to be fantastic. There's a difference between being good and having high Hockey IQ. It's quite clear from how Tkachuk passes and develops plays that he doesn't see the game 2 steps ahead of others that's what having high Hockey IQ is, it's seeing a play develop before others and making the plays to make that play happen.

Tkachuk does a great job at creating some space for himself and finding the dirty areas to fight for the puck and he does this great. but to say he has a high hockey IQ that's different.

Uh, no. It's the opposite problem. He's the only one out there thinking 2 steps ahead of others, and it's the others not setting him up when he's in the perfect position to score.

 

[Answer]

Uh, no. It's the opposite problem. He's the only one out there thinking 2 steps ahead of others, and it's the others not setting him up when he's in the perfect position to score.

Do you actually actually believe that? Be honest

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Once again I will explain it to you. The current team as it stands do not have one legitimate sniper. If they had added a guy like Toffoli they could have probably won another game or two. So instead of the Sens being historically bad they would be just bad. That helps with team morale and gives hope to the fans. But looking long term what it tells me that any moves they have to make are not for great stay at home D men or defensive centers but some pure snipers. I don't care if the guy is bad in his own end or doesn't go into the corners ; Connor Brown can do that for him. I want some scorers plain and simple.

Toffoli? Who’s he winning games against? Toffoli is changing a absolute train wreck into a regular bad team.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Uh, no. It's the opposite problem. He's the only one out there thinking 2 steps ahead of others, and it's the others not setting him up when he's in the perfect position to score.

Damn thought this was about Galchenyuk

 

[Agent Zub]

I guess it means shit if you don't understand it. What it does tell you is that Sens have been competing well enough to win but bad goaltending and the lack of finishing is what is doing them in. If I am Dorian I try to trade for a scorer; a guy like Toffoli would have been a great add.

Toffoli wouldn't do anything to salvage this team. Just like Dadonov doesn't do anything. The problem is much greater.

 

[Sweatred]

The point is that virtually every great scorer was a scorer before they got to the NHL. it might take a year or two in the NHL to get comfortable. It took Mark Stone a few years to become what he is but he was a prolific scorer in junior. So no surprise if Laf or Stutzle become great scorers the jury is out on Batherson, Norris, Logan Brown and even Brady T.

Oh - How old was Stone before he was a "great scorer" in the NHL ?

 

[swiftwin]

Do you actually actually believe that? Be honest

This video covers it pretty well:

 

[Korpse]

Oh - How old was Stone before he was a "great scorer" in the NHL ?

Stone was 22 before he became a full time NHLer, took him a little bit to get going that season he had 28 points in the 44 games before the all star break, 38 points in the 36 games after the all star break.

 

[Agent Zub]

This video covers it pretty well:

A good example of why Brady is overrated. Lots of nostalgia for a rare player type, made even worse when he is being compared to NHL legends like Iginla, Forsberg, K. Tkachuk etc.

 

[DylanSensFan]

So who are the guys on the roster that are proven finishers? Consistent goal scorers throughout their years in junior/college/AHL/Europe and NHL. Maybe a couple of guys at most.

How about Stützle for a start? Batherson, Norris, and Tkachuk? All of these folk have finish. They've been snake bitten like I've never seen before. At least Norris scored recently, but he looked none too happy about it, based on our team play.

 

[GCK]

If any of those guys turn out like Fisher we did very well. The only guy tracking better than him is Tkachuk.

Norris is tracking better. Fisher went 15 and 9 in 58 games at the same age on a good team Mike Fisher was good but Norris is better. Jury is out on Batherson but everything points to him taking a year or two when he steps up in competition so I expect him to be very good next year. Both players have way more talent than Fish.

 

[BondraTime]

Norris is tracking better. Fisher went 15 and 9 in 58 games at the same age on a good team Mike Fisher was good but Norris is better. Jury is out on Batherson but everything points to him taking a year or two when he steps up in competition so I expect him to be very good next year. Both players have way more talent than Fish.

Fisher was a shutdown, physical beast at 20 years old on one of the best teams in to a league, and looked good doing it.

Galchenyuk is more skilled than both these guys, that doesn’t make him a better NHLer. Fisher was an impact NHLer for 15 years, I’m not sure either Norris or Batherson will ever offer what prime Fisher offered in the NHL, even with less skill.

I haven’t been impressed with Norris or Batherson whatsoever this year so far, both have obvious skill, and are getting prime minutes, but aren’t looking very good with them.

 

[GCK]

Once the players shooting percentages return to their norm the team will suddenly look much better. Drake is not finishing the year at 2.6% and Brady is not finishing the season at 4.8%. Average shooting % for forwards is between 10-11%.

 

[GCK]

Fisher was a shutdown, physical beast at 20 years old on one of the best teams in to a league, and looked good doing it.

Galchenyuk is more skilled than both these guys, that doesn’t make him a better NHLer. Fisher was an impact NHLer for 15 years, I’m not sure either Norris or Batherson will ever offer what prime Fisher offered in the NHL, even with less skill.

I haven’t been impressed with Norris or Batherson whatsoever this year so far, both have obvious skill, and are getting prime minutes, but aren’t looking very good with them.

I think your expectations for their rookie seasons might have been a little high then. Impatience is definitely not a virtue.

 

[BondraTime]

I think your expectations for their rookie seasons might have been a little high then. Impatience is definitely not a virtue.

My expectations were 0.3-0.5ppg. Both are at or exceeding my points expectations. They are also getting way more prime minutes and chances than I thought they would. They just aren’t doing much to show me they will develop into top end guys.

They don’t look like anything more than average 2nd line guys, who don’t excel at any one thing, like Fisher did.

If we could have a 21 year old Fisher or either Batherson or Norris, it’s an extremely, extremely easy choice for me.

 

[Answer]

A good example of why Brady is overrated. Lots of nostalgia for a rare player type, made even worse when he is being compared to NHL legends like Iginla, Forsberg, K. Tkachuk etc.

Exactly, when I saw this video, I wasn't sure what I was looking? Iginla and Forsberg? Really?

A similar video could be made for more than 70% of the NHLers if we are being honest. Heck, a video like this could be made for Erik Condra and Chris Kelly

 

[c_mak]

Agreed. But to start the year they had 3 guys on their blueline that can't be trusted to complete a simple pass. If you're going to pass it into the hands of the opposition, better to do it by the boards I guess.

Seriously though it's that dumb, Don Cherry type of thinking that bad coaches fall back on. It's not surprising sadly.

Agreed three guys lookin like are chopping broccoli. Still if you are going to play all out why not turn back and possess the puck

 

[Korpse]

Exactly, when I saw this video, I wasn't sure what I was looking? Iginla and Forsberg? Really?

A similar video could be made for more than 70% of the NHLers if we are being honest. Heck, a video like this could be made for Erik Condra and Chris Kelly

Difference is, Brady does these things consistently, regardless of who is on the ice with him. And he did it from Day 1.