MatchesMalone
Formerly Innocent Bystander
- Aug 29, 2010
- 1,612
- 1,071
Posted this in another forum. Figure it is worth putting here for your consideration. Seems to me this is an area that the vast majority of fans don't know or think a lot about. But we're interested in prospects and the draft, and the scouts are the one's who actually deserve all of the credit (and blame) for all that stuff.
First thing I gotta point point out: at least to offset the drastic salary dump, the organization has thrown a bunch of money at scouts. The scouting staff is bigger currently than I've ever seen the Sens'. Up to three scouts in Europe again!
So basically my strategy was to find every possible post-draft team media from the past decade or more, and they typically interview the scouts of a given region about the players drafted from that region; so I credit those picks to those scouts. Better yet, sometimes you can find a head scout or GM give credit to a certain scout for pushing for a player. Any instances of these I give full credit to the scout.
In the second part I just go over the remaining players from recent drafts, and look at who manages the area the player was drafted out of. So the first part is more reliable, but I still think there is some value to the more speculative data. Circumstantial evidence adds up.
Part I: The scouts
Veterans:
Trent Mann - Chief Scout, former goaltender, formerly in charge of QMJHL, so best believe he was in on Kevin Mandolese (2018 sixth) and Francois Brassard (2012 sixth). He also shares primary credit for Batherson (2017 fourth) with Don Boyd. See later: Chabot.
George Fargher - WHL, BCHL - He was specifically involved in Jared Cowen and Curtis Lazar, but I don't pay too much attention to first rounders. The DPPs and head scouts, and the scouting staff as a whole, are all involved in the first rounders (although one guy can have a big impact, see: Anders Forsberg 2008 through 2010). More recently Fargher was involved in Maxime Lajoie (2016 fifth), Chris Driedger (2012 third) and Johnny Tychonick (2018 second, did not have a strong NCAA freshman year).
Mikko Ruutu - Chief European scout - The only two I've found him directly credited for are Christian Jaros (2015 fifth) and Markus Nurmi (2016 sixth) but he'll feature in part II.
Don Boyd - Mostly covers Ontario and Quebec - The only picks I've been able to attribute to him directly were Drake Batherson (2017 fourth) and Gabriel Gagne (2015 2nd).
Bob Janecyk - USHL, NAHL, USNDP, USHS - 2018 picks Johnny Gruden (fourth) and Jakov Novak (seventh) had solid freshmen seasons. Todd Burgess (2016 fourth) just played his third NCAA season, did ok. Tim Boyle (2012 fourth) was a trainwreck of a pick. Robbie Baillargeon (2012 fifth) and Miles Gendron (2014 third) are total flops as well. Max McCormick (2011 sixth) played 71 NHL games. Ryan Dzingel is his most successful late pick, in the seventh round in 2011.
Summer 2017 hires:
Steve Stirling - Retired from a long coaching career then as an assistant in Binghamton, to become head of NCAA recruiting. So if I'm to understand that role, give credit to him for Max Veronneau, and he was probably strongly involved in scouting Brady Tkachuk.
Bobby Strumm - WHL, BCHL - Given credit for Angus Crookshank (2018 fifth), Crookshank is easily the biggest rise in stock of our 2018 crop so far. Could be a real gem.
Dan Boeser - US Midwest - Luke Loheit (2018 seventh) had a particularly uninspiring post-draft season.
Todd Stirling - US Northeast - May have had some say on Gruden and Novak.
Anders Östberg - Europe - Could get partial credit for all of the none Europeans the Sens drafted last year.
Summer 2018 hires:
Christian De Blois - Quebec, Maritimes
Petr Havluj - Europe
Kyle Flanagan - Quebec, Ontario, NCAA
Part II
2018 - All picks have been accounted for in part I, except Bernard-Docker. Don Boyd territory, but of course the chief scout (Mann) should always get top billing on first round picks.
2017 - Late first rounder Shane Bowers was Bob Janecyk's territory.
Alex Formenton (second) - Don Boyd was the only full-time scout concentrated in Ontario at the time, and not to mention he is apparently based out of London.
Jordan Hollet (sixth) - Out of the dub, this would be Fargher's guy.
2016 - Logan Brown (eleventh overall) was Don Boyd's territory, but of course Dorion, Mann and Bob Lowes (chief scout at the time, now with Vegas) would have seen him themselves. Being in Windsor, probably Janecyk had some say here too.
Jonathan Dahlen (second) - Vaclav Burda, no longer with the organization (RIP) was head Euro scout. Other guy over there was Mikko Ruutu, now head Euro scout.
2015 - These first two in the first round seem to be Dorion's signature picks. Bryan Murray had never once in his career drafted directly out of USNTDP, and almost never out of the Q, certainly not highly. But then a year before Murray would step down in 2016, comes Thomas Chabot and Colin White in the first round. Clearly the mantle had already been passed.
Thomas Chabot - Presumably Trent Mann had something to do with this pick, which presumably had something to do with his promotion to head scout in 2017.
Colin White - This is Bob Janecyk territory. Also at the time Bill McCarthy (who retired that summer) and Lewis Mongelluzzo (left the organization in 2017).
Filip Chlapik (second) - Ruutu and Burda would have had some say, but probably mostly Mann, Boyd).
Christian Wolanin (fourth) - Again, Bob Janecyk territory.
Filip Ahl (fourth) - Ruutu/Burda.
Joey Daccord (seventh) - Probably mostly Janecyk, maybe Mann, McCarthy.
First thing I gotta point point out: at least to offset the drastic salary dump, the organization has thrown a bunch of money at scouts. The scouting staff is bigger currently than I've ever seen the Sens'. Up to three scouts in Europe again!
So basically my strategy was to find every possible post-draft team media from the past decade or more, and they typically interview the scouts of a given region about the players drafted from that region; so I credit those picks to those scouts. Better yet, sometimes you can find a head scout or GM give credit to a certain scout for pushing for a player. Any instances of these I give full credit to the scout.
In the second part I just go over the remaining players from recent drafts, and look at who manages the area the player was drafted out of. So the first part is more reliable, but I still think there is some value to the more speculative data. Circumstantial evidence adds up.
Part I: The scouts
Veterans:
Trent Mann - Chief Scout, former goaltender, formerly in charge of QMJHL, so best believe he was in on Kevin Mandolese (2018 sixth) and Francois Brassard (2012 sixth). He also shares primary credit for Batherson (2017 fourth) with Don Boyd. See later: Chabot.
George Fargher - WHL, BCHL - He was specifically involved in Jared Cowen and Curtis Lazar, but I don't pay too much attention to first rounders. The DPPs and head scouts, and the scouting staff as a whole, are all involved in the first rounders (although one guy can have a big impact, see: Anders Forsberg 2008 through 2010). More recently Fargher was involved in Maxime Lajoie (2016 fifth), Chris Driedger (2012 third) and Johnny Tychonick (2018 second, did not have a strong NCAA freshman year).
Mikko Ruutu - Chief European scout - The only two I've found him directly credited for are Christian Jaros (2015 fifth) and Markus Nurmi (2016 sixth) but he'll feature in part II.
Don Boyd - Mostly covers Ontario and Quebec - The only picks I've been able to attribute to him directly were Drake Batherson (2017 fourth) and Gabriel Gagne (2015 2nd).
Bob Janecyk - USHL, NAHL, USNDP, USHS - 2018 picks Johnny Gruden (fourth) and Jakov Novak (seventh) had solid freshmen seasons. Todd Burgess (2016 fourth) just played his third NCAA season, did ok. Tim Boyle (2012 fourth) was a trainwreck of a pick. Robbie Baillargeon (2012 fifth) and Miles Gendron (2014 third) are total flops as well. Max McCormick (2011 sixth) played 71 NHL games. Ryan Dzingel is his most successful late pick, in the seventh round in 2011.
Summer 2017 hires:
Steve Stirling - Retired from a long coaching career then as an assistant in Binghamton, to become head of NCAA recruiting. So if I'm to understand that role, give credit to him for Max Veronneau, and he was probably strongly involved in scouting Brady Tkachuk.
Bobby Strumm - WHL, BCHL - Given credit for Angus Crookshank (2018 fifth), Crookshank is easily the biggest rise in stock of our 2018 crop so far. Could be a real gem.
Dan Boeser - US Midwest - Luke Loheit (2018 seventh) had a particularly uninspiring post-draft season.
Todd Stirling - US Northeast - May have had some say on Gruden and Novak.
Anders Östberg - Europe - Could get partial credit for all of the none Europeans the Sens drafted last year.
Summer 2018 hires:
Christian De Blois - Quebec, Maritimes
Petr Havluj - Europe
Kyle Flanagan - Quebec, Ontario, NCAA
Part II
2018 - All picks have been accounted for in part I, except Bernard-Docker. Don Boyd territory, but of course the chief scout (Mann) should always get top billing on first round picks.
2017 - Late first rounder Shane Bowers was Bob Janecyk's territory.
Alex Formenton (second) - Don Boyd was the only full-time scout concentrated in Ontario at the time, and not to mention he is apparently based out of London.
Jordan Hollet (sixth) - Out of the dub, this would be Fargher's guy.
2016 - Logan Brown (eleventh overall) was Don Boyd's territory, but of course Dorion, Mann and Bob Lowes (chief scout at the time, now with Vegas) would have seen him themselves. Being in Windsor, probably Janecyk had some say here too.
Jonathan Dahlen (second) - Vaclav Burda, no longer with the organization (RIP) was head Euro scout. Other guy over there was Mikko Ruutu, now head Euro scout.
2015 - These first two in the first round seem to be Dorion's signature picks. Bryan Murray had never once in his career drafted directly out of USNTDP, and almost never out of the Q, certainly not highly. But then a year before Murray would step down in 2016, comes Thomas Chabot and Colin White in the first round. Clearly the mantle had already been passed.
Thomas Chabot - Presumably Trent Mann had something to do with this pick, which presumably had something to do with his promotion to head scout in 2017.
Colin White - This is Bob Janecyk territory. Also at the time Bill McCarthy (who retired that summer) and Lewis Mongelluzzo (left the organization in 2017).
Filip Chlapik (second) - Ruutu and Burda would have had some say, but probably mostly Mann, Boyd).
Christian Wolanin (fourth) - Again, Bob Janecyk territory.
Filip Ahl (fourth) - Ruutu/Burda.
Joey Daccord (seventh) - Probably mostly Janecyk, maybe Mann, McCarthy.