Sens Players give take on CORSI

[Scrub*]

Nobody made up a fancy term for something simple. A guy named Jim Corsi who worked for the Sabres just started using it, and that's what the Sabres called it. When more people started looking at it, the name stuck, since that's the name the Sabres had originally used.

(On the other hand, fenwick is named after the blogger who first looked at it, and I agree that it's a really dumb name)

And the simplicity is why I get annoyed when people talk about "advanced" stats. Corsi and fenwick aren't advanced stats. They're the most simple stats in the game - shot attempts and unblocked shot attempts. But despite that simplicity, corsi's the best possession metric available in hockey, and fenwick is the best predictor of team success.

And generally, when people talk about corsi, they use it exactly like you just used it. If your team has a better shot attempt differential (adjusted for score effects), you obviously played better than the other team. That's all corsi is. When you have better shot attempt differentials over the course of the season, obviously you're generally playing better than the other team in most of the games when you play. Similarly, when a player or line has a very shot attempt differential, obviously they were carrying the play when they were on the ice. Why people get so mad about these stats is beyond me.

I think people don't like the Corsi term more or less because a term like that is not required for most people to judge a hockey player. We can see with our own eyes which players have the puck often and which don't or which ones take more shots than others and prevent them. We don't need Corsi to tell us Michalek is terrible right now or Turris is a stud we already know that.

 

[SenzZen]

Just as an aside- some of the most clueless people I know have at least one degree.


Kassian has absorbed Lehner's sense of humour- that's what I got from this entertaining clip. That, and Condra is a weird looking dude.

And I like Lehner- he's definitely got the "goalie make up"- but he's probably like this with just about everyone, and not just because of something SensTV did one time.

Just ask Main

Guys, the point of the thread was what NHL players think of corsi. Not whether corsi has merits.

Huh? Threads have points now?

Nobody made up a fancy term for something simple. A guy named Jim Corsi who worked for the Sabres just started using it, and that's what the Sabres called it. When more people started looking at it, the name stuck, since that's the name the Sabres had originally used.

(On the other hand, fenwick is named after the blogger who first looked at it, and I agree that it's a really dumb name)

And the simplicity is why I get annoyed when people talk about "advanced" stats...

OK burf.

 

[Legend Killer]

I cant believe how salty the pro Corsi people get when people say they dont care about it, or have no interest in it.

 

[Engineer]

1% of people in the world have been to College
19% of Canadians (rich country) have been to College
30% of Pro Hockey Players have been to College

HF conclusion = Hockey Players are dumb

Your second stat includes all Canadians. With the greatest population in that case being the baby boomers, who were in an era where post-secondary education wasn't as common.

The average NHL player is aged ~27, with a range of ages from ~19-42

http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/[email protected]?iid=29

37.1% of people aged 25-44 have a college or trades certification
32.1% with a university degree
so 69.2%

These are people with degrees/certifications, rather than your stat of having attended.

I think it is safe to say, the NHLers are much below the average Canadian's education level in their age bracket.

/edit: your stat was wrong anyway, Canada's post secondary completion for 25-64 is 51%.

 

[SenzZen]

Lehner was not particularly fun in this segment.

Your second stat includes all Canadians. With the greatest population in that case being the baby boomers, who were in an era where post-secondary education wasn't as common.

The average NHL player is aged ~27, with a range of ages from ~19-42

http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/[email protected]?iid=29

37.1% of people aged 25-44 have a college or trades certification
32.1% with a university degree
so 69.2%

These are people with degrees/certifications, rather than your stat of having attended.

I think it is safe to say, the NHLers are much below the average Canadian's education level in their age bracket.

Gee, I wonder why that is.

Can one of you egg-heads put your Philosophy degree to use and explain this to me, please? Also- I don't need room for milk.

 

[MainDotC]

I call shenanigans.

 

[PaGEEsBack]

The problem here is thinking college degrees = smarts.

 

[guyzeur]

Your second stat includes all Canadians. With the greatest population in that case being the baby boomers, who were in an era where post-secondary education wasn't as common.

The average NHL player is aged ~27, with a range of ages from ~19-42

http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/[email protected]?iid=29

37.1% of people aged 25-44 have a college or trades certification
32.1% with a university degree
so 69.2%

These are people with degrees/certifications, rather than your stat of having attended.

I think it is safe to say, the NHLers are much below the average Canadian's education level in their age bracket.

/edit: your stat was wrong anyway, Canada's post secondary completion for 25-64 is 51%.

Trades doesn't equal college degree;


This link says Canada has 50% of its population that has either a College or University degree. I wonder if they are counted twice is someone has both...

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-599-x/2012008/c-g/desc/desc001-eng.htm

How many US players in the NHL? That should give you about the number of players with college degrees (had maybe 20-25 to that numbers for others that went to play in the US colleges.

 

[83DIZ65]

anybody reminded of matt damon in team america by this vid? lol i love kassian.

 

[DrEasy]

It's fine you don't like Corsi as long as you propose a better stat and defend it convincingly.

 

[HavlatMach9]

It's fine you don't like Corsi as long as you propose a better stat and defend it convincingly.

don't mind people who use Corsi but I don't get the impression it's being used properly

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

don't mind people who use Corsi but I don't get the impression it's being used properly

+1. Good stat for predicting long-term eventualities but when it's used as a standalone stat, or as a short-term predictor, it fails on every level.

 

[Engineer]

Trades doesn't equal college degree;

acknowledged in my edit; and by saying degree/certification.

This link says Canada has 50% of its population that has either a College or University degree. I wonder if they are counted twice is someone has both...

Statscan is likely more competent than that, but i suppose it's a possibility.

 

[DrEasy]

+1. Good stat for predicting long-term eventualities but when it's used as a standalone stat, or as a short-term predictor, it fails on every level.

Sure, but is there anything else that works well short term? To quote someone whose name I forget: "probably not".

 

[Alfieghetti]

pretty safe to say if you didn't finish high school, you are most likely an idiot.

 

[SenatorArmy*]

Lehner was not particularly fun in this segment.

should've had Ray Emery's girlfriend asking the questions

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Really?

Yeah, I so much.
Saying hockey players haven't had a lot of advanced education isn't libellous, it's the truth. They spend all their time playing hockey so they can't spend 30-40 hours a week learning an advanced trade. That doesn't make them idiots or anything, it just means that theiradvanced trade is hockey, and they're really really good at it!

I couldn't do their job, they couldn't do my job. I'd rather be a hockey player than planning escape routes, verifying alarm systems, supplies, contingency plans etc.

About advanced stats, anyway, expect derision from players and a lot of people until they're used in a predictive (and not reflective) manner. For example, you tell me that possession is great and I go great, what's the score in the TB-Ott tonight, I need help for my over-under.
Not to say they aren't useful, of course, but they're just not seeing the whole picture of the game and the meta-data of the game.

 

[StefanW]

Gee, I wonder why that is.

Can one of you egg-heads put your Philosophy degree to use and explain this to me, please? Also- I don't need room for milk.

Not sure you included me in this offensive overreaction just because I thought Lehner wasn't very much fun in his small clips. As I said a couple of posts later, his attitude has nothing to do with hockey so I don't care.

 

[StefanW]

+1. Good stat for predicting long-term eventualities but when it's used as a standalone stat, or as a short-term predictor, it fails on every level.

Bingo, we have a winner! I was just about to post essentially the same thing and then I read your response.

 

[SenzZen]

Not sure you included me in this offensive overreaction just because I thought Lehner wasn't very much fun in his small clips. As I said a couple of posts later, his attitude has nothing to do with hockey so I don't care.

Nah it wasn't directed at you. The quote was selected accidentally, and I can't edit my posts.

And it was a joke.

 

[StefanW]

Nah it wasn't directed at you. The quote was selected accidentally, and I can't edit my posts.

And it was a joke.

No worries.